Getting Started

[akarassowitsch]

I have combed the site, but can't find what I'm looking for. Can someone point me in the direction of a list of suggested tools/fixtures to get a Rebel project started? I'm in the process of setting up the shop.

[Francesco Simioni]

If it can help this is found in a rebel manual

To assemble the Fuselage, the following tools will be required:
1) 3/8” Variable Speed Hand Drill
2) #40, #30, #11, ¼”, 5/16”, 3/8”, ½” Drill Bits
3) Quantity of 3/32”, 1/8” and 3/16” Clecos
4) Cleco Pliers
5) Deburing Tools and File
6) Felt Markers
7) Rivet Gun or hand Riveter
8 ) Tape Measure
9) Level
10) Aviation Snips
11) Crimping Pliers or Stretcher-Shrinker
12) 3/8”, 7/16”, ½” & 9/16” Wrenches (two of each)
13) Dimple Tool for Countersunk Rivets
14) Hacksaw
15) Chalk Line or Long Straight Edge

Ciao

Francesco - Rebel 562R

[Jerry Folkerts]

Francesco had an excellent list of minimal handtools to get started. However, if you want to save your hands, you should consider a good air compressor. That would allow a pneumatic cleco pliers and a low cost rivet gun from somewhere like Harbor Freight. I can't imagine building without those two items. Next, you should have some drill stops, you can order them from Avery Tools or any of the other aircraft tool suppliers. In addition, you will most likely have to drill out a rivet or two and a rivet removal tool would be helpful, but not necessary. You will also need some 3M scotchbrite pads (the maroon ones -- medium) to scuff the surface prior to priming or epoxying any parts. I recommend you simply purchase a box of them.
Best,
Jerry Folkerts

[Elite583]

To follow on Jerry's suggestion for a rivet removal tool, I have found an automatic center punch to be very useful to knock the embedded part of the steel mandrel out of the set rivet before drilling the head off. It gives a consistent, not too hard hit every time.

Of course it's useful when you want to use it as a center punch for drilling too. ;)

I have a couple, one a General and one like the blue one but branded Blue Point/Snap on:

http://www.howtowireahouse.com/Automati ... Punch.html
http://www.generaltools.com/87--Pocket- ... _p_40.html

If you're south of the border you can get the General from McMaster Carr.

Dave
Elite 583

[akarassowitsch]

Thanks for the advice everyone. What about the table? I have seen 'about 16 feet'. Is that enough? And what about width ... as I recall the chord is around 60 inches. In your experience, what would work well?

Here's another question: Has anyone tried building with driven rivets? My son's an AME and hates the pulled ones - says the mandrels always come loose and then they smoke.

[akarassowitsch]

Here's another one - sorry I just read your list again Francesco ... 'a quantity of clecos' ... I have heard it said that you always need one more than you have. What is a reasonable quantity?

[mikefairbanks]

MAM put out a "recommended" work bench. I built mine using their plans with a few modifications, and have been happy with it.

[Mike Espinoza]

I thought that I would add my suggestions. I agree with Jerry about the Cleco pneumatic tool to help avoid carpal tunnel. Check out the price for one at http://www.panamericantool.com. While you are there also check out the prices for cleco fasteners. Also, I highly recommend the Pan American # 30 and #40 cobalt jobber length drills. I have not found a better cutting drill bit that stays sharp longer. The prices are reasonable. To make the job easier I also recommend the 12 inch #30, #40, and #11 or #12 drill. And, I would not be without my 1/4 inch 4,000 rpm electric drill. Milwaukee and DeWalt make these drills.

I would also suggest that you check out http://www.cleavelandtool.com. In addition to tools they have great videos to help build your airplane. I have the 3 pc deburring handle and the hex hole deburring tool. Use it on a cordless drill. You can count 1-1/2 revolutions until you get used to it then you can time it. Then instead of using a file to remove the remaining hole burrs use the 3m, 1 inch cut and polish wheel mounted on a mandrel and air die grinder from Harbor Freight (if you have an air compressor). I also recommend a the 3m, 6 inch cut and polish wheel mounted on a bench grinder. I mounted mine on my drill press because I do not have room for a bench grinder and it is easier for me to deburr long parts.

Please ask if you have any more questions.

[Dick]

The MOOSE quick builds come from the factory with -AD driven hard rivets, so I just kept using them in as many places as possible. By planning ahead most were a one person job. The few pulled rivets used such as wet wing access pannles were filled with epoxy and lightly sanded. The finished plane received many compliments. Also I read some ware that the AVEX rivet is 80% the strength of a driven rivet, thus a stronger structure this way ??? My opinions again!
Dick

[tjhickey]

I would recommend that you buy the full set of books by Tony Bengelis. You can buy a set of 4 for $90 from the EAA.
You might also find some on EBay. These books contain a wealth of knowledge about homebuilt aircraft.

Tim Hickey

[bobp.rambling]

I'm surprised !
You say you have a Rebel kit - do you not have the manual ??!!

The table instructions and parts list are in it ...
Here it is - attached.

There are lots of good suggestions on basic metalwork on the bottom of
the Tech Support pages on the PAS web site ...

All Murphy kits were designed for the Avex rivets - there
is NO difference in strength using solids, as the skin will tear
first in any case. Save yourself a lot of extra work and just
build it the way it was designed. Old wives tales about
"pop" rivets relate to hardware store stuff, not Avex, which are
used in military and commercial aircraft !

TableConstructionGeneral.pdf

Building table parts list & instructions

(61.76 KiB) Downloaded 173 times

[akarassowitsch]

Thanks again all for the suggestions. I don't have a kit yet - just getting ready. I wondered about the rivets. Some of the pictures I've seen on this site seem to show parts that use a combination of driven and pulled rivets, so with my son breathing down my neck I thought I'd ask!

[Jerry Folkerts]

You are correct. The Rebel, Super Rebel and Moose primarily use pulled rivets, although the spars have regular bucked rivets. You could get someone in a local EAA chapter to help you with those and probably wouldn't have to purchase a rivet gun.
Depending on where you live, you may want to arrange to visit with someone that has built or is building a Rebel.

Jerry Folkerts

[Rebel 804]

Re the bench, I made mine as recommended about 3 ft high, but found when on the fuse, an "adjustable" floor height worked well.
Pic Attached
Rebel804 downunder :thumbup:

[Garry]

The story of Avex vs solid rivets comes up every once in a while. AME's often dislike the Avex rivet - probably a cultural bias. Many non-engineers try to explain that the mandrels fall out or that the Avex are not as strong as solid rivets and therefore replacing Avex with solid gives a better airplane. In fact, engineers design stuff to meet the design requirements, and not more. An excellent example of a very foolish place to use stronger than designed fasteners is at the door post attach point for the panel. When a rebel experiences a twisting force on the cabin, these shear if but only if they are Avex as designed. When that happens the cabin will usually spring back to an untwisted state, easily repaired. In the same event with bolts or hard rivets installed you probably have a write-off. As with many modifications, you can not only move the fail point around, you can make the next failure much worse. There is absolutely nothing in the rebel that requires solid rivets. Rivet spacings, material thicknesses etc are all coordinated to be used with the Avex. Use the engineering Luke, not guesswork... I believe the Moose was designed for Avex rivets and market pressure drove a consideration of the use of solid rivets. They work, but probably not as well as the Avex in this application. Nobody who has the data is saying as far as I know.

The MOOSE quick builds come from the factory with -AD driven hard rivets, so I just kept using them in as many places as possible. By planning ahead most were a one person job. The few pulled rivets used such as wet wing access pannles were filled with epoxy and lightly sanded. The finished plane received many compliments. Also I read some ware that the AVEX rivet is 80% the strength of a driven rivet, thus a stronger structure this way ??? My opinions again!
Dick