[rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Steve somewhere the manual states neutral/6/12/18 degrees down and 6
negative. If you can get 10 negative that is great for when you are light. I
have two notches on my flaps handle with ~ 7 and 14 degrees negative. I also
have neutral 7, 14 and 22 down. 22 is pushing your luck and for nothing but
SLOW flight only. I'd be VERY cautious of 25 down with MAM's max suggestion
being 18 degrees.A bit of playing with the push pulls between the mixer and
torque tube and the wing to flaperon push pulls could probably change what
you have to 21 or 22 max down and 12 or 13 negative and you'll be extremely
happy with her. That is if you can't move the flap unit easily
instead...either way PLEASE no more than 22 degrees down. It's a real rudder
pedal airplane at that and rudder defection is the only way to turn the
airplane with full flaps down. Stick movement is useless at that setting so
I sure wouldn't go any more flap, and structurally not a good plan either.

I can't remember degree of travel for the flaperons. There's a measurement
somewhere and I think in the neutral flaperon position it's somewhere around
3 3/8 to 3 5/8" inches up/down from neutral position measured using the gap
filler box at the flaperon trailing edge as a reference. If I remember
tomorrow I'll throw a tape on mine and Howard's when I go back out to tackle
day 5 on the CLAMAR amphib install to the Elite. Tooooo pooped to head back
out now and I have to tackle the families 5 tax returns tonight before that
Bast....d, the Receiver General, is bangin on my door.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

Hi All
Hoping I can get some help with this. Wayne, would appreciate a reply

from

u if your not busy. Working at the inner controls with wings on etc. I

can

get 25* of down flaperon travel and 10* of reflex with stick in the

neutral

position. Is this too much? Nowhere in the manuel are the degree of the
flaperons mentioned. I have the electric flap setup and this is the travel

I

get with the internal limiter switches. I don't want to have to put a
second set on if I don't have to. The 10* really lets the lower leading

edge

of the flaperon protrude. I could adjust it to get 30* of down flaperon

and

5* of reflex. Also how much travel (degrees) up and down for the
aileron/stick travel.

Steve W 637R





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[bransom]

I'm surprised to see 22* max down. What happens beyond that? I'm curious
in part because MAM construction calls for 40*max down travel, at least
when making the wings/flaperon hinge stuff. Also, I just checked the MAM
Rebel Operating manual and it talks about a 30* power off stall speed. Was
greater than ~22* part of Rick Haper's bad day last summer?
-Ben

Steve somewhere the manual states neutral/6/12/18 degrees down and 6
negative. If you can get 10 negative that is great for when you are light. I
have two notches on my flaps handle with ~ 7 and 14 degrees negative. I also
have neutral 7, 14 and 22 down. 22 is pushing your luck and for nothing but
SLOW flight only. I'd be VERY cautious of 25 down with MAM's max suggestion
being 18 degrees.A bit of playing with the push pulls between the mixer and
torque tube and the wing to flaperon push pulls could probably change what
you have to 21 or 22 max down and 12 or 13 negative and you'll be extremely
happy with her. That is if you can't move the flap unit easily
instead...either way PLEASE no more than 22 degrees down. It's a real rudder
pedal airplane at that and rudder defection is the only way to turn the
airplane with full flaps down. Stick movement is useless at that setting so
I sure wouldn't go any more flap, and structurally not a good plan either.

I can't remember degree of travel for the flaperons. There's a measurement
somewhere and I think in the neutral flaperon position it's somewhere around
3 3/8 to 3 5/8" inches up/down from neutral position measured using the gap
filler box at the flaperon trailing edge as a reference. If I remember
tomorrow I'll throw a tape on mine and Howard's when I go back out to tackle
day 5 on the CLAMAR amphib install to the Elite. Tooooo pooped to head back
out now and I have to tackle the families 5 tax returns tonight before that
Bast....d, the Receiver General, is bangin on my door.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

Hi All
Hoping I can get some help with this. Wayne, would appreciate a reply

from

u if your not busy. Working at the inner controls with wings on etc. I

can

get 25* of down flaperon travel and 10* of reflex with stick in the

neutral

position. Is this too much? Nowhere in the manuel are the degree of the
flaperons mentioned. I have the electric flap setup and this is the travel

I

get with the internal limiter switches. I don't want to have to put a
second set on if I don't have to. The 10* really lets the lower leading

edge

of the flaperon protrude. I could adjust it to get 30* of down flaperon

and

5* of reflex. Also how much travel (degrees) up and down for the
aileron/stick travel.

Steve W 637R





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Actually the max flaperon down setting is supposed to be 18 degrees! I just
know from 11 years of flight that 22 hasn't been an issue (although mine are
a tad stronger being totally covered in alum). What happens beyond that in a
locked down situation.... with only 2 hanger brackets on 6 feet of lightly
built flaperon..... is anyones guess, but my fear would be it buckling in
the center on an overspeed deployment. The 40 degree travel in the wing
building process is to allow for max flaperon deployment + max "aileron"
travel. Trust me...in flight you'll never get it to travel in total to 40
degrees and if you can the differential the air flow sees won't do much to
make you turn anyhow....strictly rudder pedal steering at the point if you
expect to get back on runway center line after being blown sideways. Making
the flaperons deploy anymore than the recommended amount will severely limit
the differential even more to a point the stick would not even move side to
side when static on the ground if you get them down too low (ie if you use
all 40 degrees of movement spec'd out in the wing build you'll have nothing
left for "aileron" travel. You can experiment to your hearts content with
more flaperon down...but doesn't mean I have to ride with you!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

I'm surprised to see 22* max down. What happens beyond that? I'm curious
in part because MAM construction calls for 40*max down travel, at least
when making the wings/flaperon hinge stuff. Also, I just checked the MAM
Rebel Operating manual and it talks about a 30* power off stall speed.

Was

greater than ~22* part of Rick Haper's bad day last summer?
-Ben

Steve somewhere the manual states neutral/6/12/18 degrees down and 6
negative. If you can get 10 negative that is great for when you are

light. I

have two notches on my flaps handle with ~ 7 and 14 degrees negative. I

also

have neutral 7, 14 and 22 down. 22 is pushing your luck and for nothing

but

SLOW flight only. I'd be VERY cautious of 25 down with MAM's max

suggestion

being 18 degrees.A bit of playing with the push pulls between the mixer

and

torque tube and the wing to flaperon push pulls could probably change

what

you have to 21 or 22 max down and 12 or 13 negative and you'll be

extremely

happy with her. That is if you can't move the flap unit easily
instead...either way PLEASE no more than 22 degrees down. It's a real

rudder

pedal airplane at that and rudder defection is the only way to turn the
airplane with full flaps down. Stick movement is useless at that setting

so

I sure wouldn't go any more flap, and structurally not a good plan

either.

I can't remember degree of travel for the flaperons. There's a

measurement

somewhere and I think in the neutral flaperon position it's somewhere

around

3 3/8 to 3 5/8" inches up/down from neutral position measured using the

gap

filler box at the flaperon trailing edge as a reference. If I remember
tomorrow I'll throw a tape on mine and Howard's when I go back out to

tackle

day 5 on the CLAMAR amphib install to the Elite. Tooooo pooped to head

back

out now and I have to tackle the families 5 tax returns tonight before

that

Bast....d, the Receiver General, is bangin on my door.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

Hi All
Hoping I can get some help with this. Wayne, would appreciate a reply

from

u if your not busy. Working at the inner controls with wings on etc.

I

can

get 25* of down flaperon travel and 10* of reflex with stick in the

neutral

position. Is this too much? Nowhere in the manuel are the degree of

the

flaperons mentioned. I have the electric flap setup and this is the

travel

I

get with the internal limiter switches. I don't want to have to put a
second set on if I don't have to. The 10* really lets the lower

leading

edge

of the flaperon protrude. I could adjust it to get 30* of down

flaperon

and

5* of reflex. Also how much travel (degrees) up and down for the
aileron/stick travel.

Steve W 637R





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[steve whitenect]

Wayne
Thanks for the info. I ended up somewhat answering my question about 25*.
You will run out of aileron travel so a pair of micro switches and a bunch
of wires are to be installed. Finished all the wing/fairing jobs today and
am waiting for a new Citation 4 HVLP system to be delivered. I am basically
done all my metal work and only have two oil lines and a fuel line to make
up and can probably run the engine before tearing it all off again. Then off
to the paint booth. I have no idea where in the manuel the degree settings
are for the flaperons. I can honestly say that I have never seen them. If
God be willing, GMSG will fly within two months.

Steve W. 637R





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[bransom]

the differential even more to a point the stick would not even move side to
side when static on the ground if you get them down too low (ie if you use
all 40 degrees of movement spec'd out in the wing build you'll have nothing
left for "aileron" travel. You can experiment to your hearts content with
more flaperon down...but doesn't mean I have to ride with you!

Ah c'mon Wayne, what happened to your sense of adventure? :)

Doh!, I had forgotten to add in the aileron travel. Still, less flaperon in
practice than I had thought, so ...good to know how it really works. It is a
heck of a lot of surface area, at any deflection.
-Ben



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

BTW..my memory guess was correct. I just went out and measured and I have 3
5/8" up and 3 1/4" down measured at the trailing edge, using the wing root
fillers trailing edge as a reference. Howard's is just over 3" in both
directions. As long as you get 3" minimum you will have lots of roll
control.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

Steve somewhere the manual states neutral/6/12/18 degrees down and 6
negative. If you can get 10 negative that is great for when you are light.

I

have two notches on my flaps handle with ~ 7 and 14 degrees negative. I

also

have neutral 7, 14 and 22 down. 22 is pushing your luck and for nothing

but

SLOW flight only. I'd be VERY cautious of 25 down with MAM's max

suggestion

being 18 degrees.A bit of playing with the push pulls between the mixer

and

torque tube and the wing to flaperon push pulls could probably change what
you have to 21 or 22 max down and 12 or 13 negative and you'll be

extremely

happy with her. That is if you can't move the flap unit easily
instead...either way PLEASE no more than 22 degrees down. It's a real

rudder

pedal airplane at that and rudder defection is the only way to turn the
airplane with full flaps down. Stick movement is useless at that setting

so

I sure wouldn't go any more flap, and structurally not a good plan either.

I can't remember degree of travel for the flaperons. There's a measurement
somewhere and I think in the neutral flaperon position it's somewhere

around

3 3/8 to 3 5/8" inches up/down from neutral position measured using the

gap

filler box at the flaperon trailing edge as a reference. If I remember
tomorrow I'll throw a tape on mine and Howard's when I go back out to

tackle

day 5 on the CLAMAR amphib install to the Elite. Tooooo pooped to head

back

out now and I have to tackle the families 5 tax returns tonight before

that

Bast....d, the Receiver General, is bangin on my door.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

Hi All
Hoping I can get some help with this. Wayne, would appreciate a reply

from

u if your not busy. Working at the inner controls with wings on etc. I

can

get 25* of down flaperon travel and 10* of reflex with stick in the

neutral

position. Is this too much? Nowhere in the manuel are the degree of the
flaperons mentioned. I have the electric flap setup and this is the

travel

I

get with the internal limiter switches. I don't want to have to put a
second set on if I don't have to. The 10* really lets the lower leading

edge

of the flaperon protrude. I could adjust it to get 30* of down flaperon

and

5* of reflex. Also how much travel (degrees) up and down for the
aileron/stick travel.

Steve W 637R





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[steve whitenect]

Thanks Wayne!

Steve W

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:19:45 -0400

BTW..my memory guess was correct. I just went out and measured and I have 3
5/8" up and 3 1/4" down measured at the trailing edge, using the wing root
fillers trailing edge as a reference. Howard's is just over 3" in both
directions. As long as you get 3" minimum you will have lots of roll
control.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

Steve somewhere the manual states neutral/6/12/18 degrees down and 6
negative. If you can get 10 negative that is great for when you are

light.
I

have two notches on my flaps handle with ~ 7 and 14 degrees negative. I

also

have neutral 7, 14 and 22 down. 22 is pushing your luck and for nothing

but

SLOW flight only. I'd be VERY cautious of 25 down with MAM's max

suggestion

being 18 degrees.A bit of playing with the push pulls between the mixer

and

torque tube and the wing to flaperon push pulls could probably change

what

you have to 21 or 22 max down and 12 or 13 negative and you'll be

extremely

happy with her. That is if you can't move the flap unit easily
instead...either way PLEASE no more than 22 degrees down. It's a real

rudder

pedal airplane at that and rudder defection is the only way to turn the
airplane with full flaps down. Stick movement is useless at that setting

so

I sure wouldn't go any more flap, and structurally not a good plan

either.

I can't remember degree of travel for the flaperons. There's a

measurement

somewhere and I think in the neutral flaperon position it's somewhere

around

3 3/8 to 3 5/8" inches up/down from neutral position measured using the

gap

filler box at the flaperon trailing edge as a reference. If I remember
tomorrow I'll throw a tape on mine and Howard's when I go back out to

tackle

day 5 on the CLAMAR amphib install to the Elite. Tooooo pooped to head

back

out now and I have to tackle the families 5 tax returns tonight before

that

Bast....d, the Receiver General, is bangin on my door.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel Flaperon Travel

Hi All
Hoping I can get some help with this. Wayne, would appreciate a reply

from

u if your not busy. Working at the inner controls with wings on etc.

I

can

get 25* of down flaperon travel and 10* of reflex with stick in the

neutral

position. Is this too much? Nowhere in the manuel are the degree of

the

flaperons mentioned. I have the electric flap setup and this is the

travel

I

get with the internal limiter switches. I don't want to have to put a
second set on if I don't have to. The 10* really lets the lower

leading

edge

of the flaperon protrude. I could adjust it to get 30* of down

flaperon

and

5* of reflex. Also how much travel (degrees) up and down for the
aileron/stick travel.

Steve W 637R





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