Float flying on amphibs

[Al & Deb Paxhia]

I just got back from visiting with Keith Kinden at his Montana Float
operation in Libby Montana. I flew Keith's airplane about four hours over a
couple of days, what a great time.

The conditions were 2600 feet elevation and tempertures in mid 80's F. Winds
on the water were light and variable and 8-10 xwind at the airport. The
airplane is powered by a 250 hp Lyc and is a standard SR2500 and was loaded
to over 3100 lbs.
The first flights were sticky geting off the water at that density altitude
with 3 notches of flaps. After some testing and rigging changes, I was
impressed. Both wheel and float performance were very good. On floats it
performed and felt better than a C180 that I have flown a few hours in. It
was on step quicker and had a larger sweet spot than the 180. With 2
notches of flaps the airplane rolls onto the step, accelerates, give it
slight aileron and we were flying, no more sticking. This was with very
little wind and smooth water.

On wheels (my first time flying on amphibs) it broke ground very quicklly,
about 5 seconds after full power is in (10-12 seconds total). Attitude is
flat until the wing starts to fly then the airplane jumps into the air. For
best cooling, climb was at 90 MPH, VSI at 700+ fpm to about 4500 then over
the ridge to the lake. I had trouble keeping the ball centered in level
flight over mountain terrain, but Keith had no trouble at all. I got better
but need more practice.

Keith has the gear switch and lights so they fit in a three inch instrument
hole. Lights made good sense, blue for water and yellow (caution) for land.
Lights are out while gear is moving; also there is a press to test all
lights. The prototype switch has a short handle, but he is making the
production switch longer so it will be easier to get your fingers around,
pull and lift. Also the production system will have an audio response when
the airspeed gets to preset level telling you the position of the gear.
When the rudders were down, I could not reach the lifting ring without
loosening my shoulder harness. I will route my water rudder retraction
system differently. Retraction was smooth and easy once you got the ring.
Water rudders have lots of authority and docking was very controlled.

Keith is a small operation so if you are interested in his floats be sure to
give him lots of time. These floats are a quality product, designed for
rough water. I call these "working floats" and they are reasonably priced.
Al
Moose, N526AP





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[Mike Kimball]

Did the plane use the MAM designed float attach fittings. I.e., the little
triangles at the front and the square tube at the back? Or did he use the
more common "pork chop" at the front? (I heard that was not recommended by
Daryl by the way.)

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Al & Deb Paxhia
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 4:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float flying on amphibs


I just got back from visiting with Keith Kinden at his Montana Float
operation in Libby Montana. I flew Keith's airplane about four hours over a
couple of days, what a great time.

The conditions were 2600 feet elevation and tempertures in mid 80's F. Winds
on the water were light and variable and 8-10 xwind at the airport. The
airplane is powered by a 250 hp Lyc and is a standard SR2500 and was loaded
to over 3100 lbs.
The first flights were sticky geting off the water at that density altitude
with 3 notches of flaps. After some testing and rigging changes, I was
impressed. Both wheel and float performance were very good. On floats it
performed and felt better than a C180 that I have flown a few hours in. It
was on step quicker and had a larger sweet spot than the 180. With 2
notches of flaps the airplane rolls onto the step, accelerates, give it
slight aileron and we were flying, no more sticking. This was with very
little wind and smooth water.

On wheels (my first time flying on amphibs) it broke ground very quicklly,
about 5 seconds after full power is in (10-12 seconds total). Attitude is
flat until the wing starts to fly then the airplane jumps into the air. For
best cooling, climb was at 90 MPH, VSI at 700+ fpm to about 4500 then over
the ridge to the lake. I had trouble keeping the ball centered in level
flight over mountain terrain, but Keith had no trouble at all. I got better
but need more practice.

Keith has the gear switch and lights so they fit in a three inch instrument
hole. Lights made good sense, blue for water and yellow (caution) for land.
Lights are out while gear is moving; also there is a press to test all
lights. The prototype switch has a short handle, but he is making the
production switch longer so it will be easier to get your fingers around,
pull and lift. Also the production system will have an audio response when
the airspeed gets to preset level telling you the position of the gear.
When the rudders were down, I could not reach the lifting ring without
loosening my shoulder harness. I will route my water rudder retraction
system differently. Retraction was smooth and easy once you got the ring.
Water rudders have lots of authority and docking was very controlled.

Keith is a small operation so if you are interested in his floats be sure to
give him lots of time. These floats are a quality product, designed for
rough water. I call these "working floats" and they are reasonably priced.
Al
Moose, N526AP



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[Al & Deb Paxhia]

Hi Mike,
Keith uses both a pork chop and the two MAM fittings up front. There is a
link on each side of the pork chop tying it to MAM's fittings. On the rear
there is machined fitting that plugs into the square tube. That fitting
bolts to a fitting that slides into the rear strut. Wire braces connect into
the same fitting. Parts look very nice, excess metal has been machined off.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: Float flying on amphibs

Did the plane use the MAM designed float attach fittings. I.e., the

little

triangles at the front and the square tube at the back? Or did he use the
more common "pork chop" at the front? (I heard that was not recommended

by

Daryl by the way.)

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Al & Deb Paxhia
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 4:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float flying on amphibs


I just got back from visiting with Keith Kinden at his Montana Float
operation in Libby Montana. I flew Keith's airplane about four hours over

a

couple of days, what a great time.

The conditions were 2600 feet elevation and tempertures in mid 80's F.

Winds

on the water were light and variable and 8-10 xwind at the airport. The
airplane is powered by a 250 hp Lyc and is a standard SR2500 and was

loaded

to over 3100 lbs.
The first flights were sticky geting off the water at that density

altitude

with 3 notches of flaps. After some testing and rigging changes, I was
impressed. Both wheel and float performance were very good. On floats it
performed and felt better than a C180 that I have flown a few hours in.

It

was on step quicker and had a larger sweet spot than the 180. With 2
notches of flaps the airplane rolls onto the step, accelerates, give it
slight aileron and we were flying, no more sticking. This was with very
little wind and smooth water.

On wheels (my first time flying on amphibs) it broke ground very quicklly,
about 5 seconds after full power is in (10-12 seconds total). Attitude is
flat until the wing starts to fly then the airplane jumps into the air.

For

best cooling, climb was at 90 MPH, VSI at 700+ fpm to about 4500 then over
the ridge to the lake. I had trouble keeping the ball centered in level
flight over mountain terrain, but Keith had no trouble at all. I got

better

but need more practice.

Keith has the gear switch and lights so they fit in a three inch

instrument

hole. Lights made good sense, blue for water and yellow (caution) for

land.

Lights are out while gear is moving; also there is a press to test all
lights. The prototype switch has a short handle, but he is making the
production switch longer so it will be easier to get your fingers around,
pull and lift. Also the production system will have an audio response

when

the airspeed gets to preset level telling you the position of the gear.
When the rudders were down, I could not reach the lifting ring without
loosening my shoulder harness. I will route my water rudder retraction
system differently. Retraction was smooth and easy once you got the

ring.

Water rudders have lots of authority and docking was very controlled.

Keith is a small operation so if you are interested in his floats be sure

to

give him lots of time. These floats are a quality product, designed for
rough water. I call these "working floats" and they are reasonably priced.
Al
Moose, N526AP

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