Moose Manual

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm

Hi all... well, N195AK is home, and most of the inventory done! John and I
drove the 4200 miles in just over 4 days. I would have come in a little
under 4, but we spent 8 hours at customs because some where along the way
there was a break down in communication and our entry paper work was sent to
the border with Washington, not Alaska!

Anyway, the reason for this message is to share and vent my surprise
regarding the construction manual I received with my kit. The surprise is
that there is no Moose manual... I got an SR2500 manual and the SR3500
upgrade packet. I'm really surprised by this since by MAM's own account, 9
out of 10 kits they sell now are Moose kits. I've already sat down and gone
through the Stab section, and when building from scratch it will take some
time to ensure the SR3500 mods are applied appropriately during
construction. There are quite a few parts that the manual calls for that
aren't even in the kit because they are superceded by new parts for the
SR3500 update.

How about that? I've been hosting this list for 4 1/2 years now, and I'm
well aware from all the messages over the years that the manual is one of
the major points of complaint by builders... but I was still surprised when
I pulled mine out of the box.

Oh well... I'm done venting now. It's good to finally have it here so I can
get started!

Mike
195SR

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Bill Delcambre · Post by **Bill Delcambre** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm

Hi Mike.

I hate to say it, but your fun is only just beginning, with the manual.
Soon enough, you'll find that interpretation will be your most useful skill.
Intuition and imagination will rank close behind. There are times when
you'll find rather large gaps in direction. I've only been working on mine
for a couple of months, and have discovered such. Several years back, I
built a Glasair. Their manual is FABULOUS. I alway said that a person
could build that plane if he could read and knew left from right. This one,
will take much more knowledge of aircraft construction.

The 'amateur built' category has it's mandate based on 'education and
recreation'. Just think of the education that you're about to receive.

Bill Delcambre
Lafayette, LA.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: Moose Manual

Hi all... well, N195AK is home, and most of the inventory done! John and

I

drove the 4200 miles in just over 4 days. I would have come in a little
under 4, but we spent 8 hours at customs because some where along the way
there was a break down in communication and our entry paper work was sent

to

the border with Washington, not Alaska!

Anyway, the reason for this message is to share and vent my surprise
regarding the construction manual I received with my kit. The surprise is
that there is no Moose manual... I got an SR2500 manual and the SR3500
upgrade packet. I'm really surprised by this since by MAM's own account,

9

out of 10 kits they sell now are Moose kits. I've already sat down and

gone

through the Stab section, and when building from scratch it will take some
time to ensure the SR3500 mods are applied appropriately during
construction. There are quite a few parts that the manual calls for that
aren't even in the kit because they are superceded by new parts for the
SR3500 update.

How about that? I've been hosting this list for 4 1/2 years now, and I'm
well aware from all the messages over the years that the manual is one of
the major points of complaint by builders... but I was still surprised

when

I pulled mine out of the box.

Oh well... I'm done venting now. It's good to finally have it here so I

can

get started!

Mike
195SR

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S & L Aldrich · Post by **S & L Aldrich** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm

The manual definitely needs an update. I was also surprised with no 3500
manual. I am guilty of not sending in the errors that I found along the way
while building the tail. Mainly because once I figured it out I just sort of
moved on and forgot what was messed up. I am going to try to keep track
from now on and send in the typos or messed up sections.

Scott

-

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm

Hi Bill,

Having worked with Mike Kimball on his SR I'm pretty comfortable with what
is to come... I was just really surprised that they don't have a manual for
their #1 selling product! When I visited the factory in January I was told
that the reason they aren't going to offer the 3600 floats as kits is
because Darryl doesn't want to deal with writing the manual... I think that
says it all.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdelcambre@cox-internet.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: Moose Manual

Hi Mike.

I hate to say it, but your fun is only just beginning, with the manual.
Soon enough, you'll find that interpretation will be your most useful

skill.

Intuition and imagination will rank close behind. There are times when
you'll find rather large gaps in direction. I've only been working on

mine

for a couple of months, and have discovered such. Several years back, I
built a Glasair. Their manual is FABULOUS. I alway said that a person
could build that plane if he could read and knew left from right. This

one,

will take much more knowledge of aircraft construction.

The 'amateur built' category has it's mandate based on 'education and
recreation'. Just think of the education that you're about to receive.

Bill Delcambre
Lafayette, LA.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: Moose Manual

Hi all... well, N195AK is home, and most of the inventory done! John

and

I
drove the 4200 miles in just over 4 days. I would have come in a little
under 4, but we spent 8 hours at customs because some where along the

way

there was a break down in communication and our entry paper work was

sent

to
the border with Washington, not Alaska!

Anyway, the reason for this message is to share and vent my surprise
regarding the construction manual I received with my kit. The surprise

is

that there is no Moose manual... I got an SR2500 manual and the SR3500
upgrade packet. I'm really surprised by this since by MAM's own

account,

9
out of 10 kits they sell now are Moose kits. I've already sat down and
gone
through the Stab section, and when building from scratch it will take

some

time to ensure the SR3500 mods are applied appropriately during
construction. There are quite a few parts that the manual calls for

that

aren't even in the kit because they are superceded by new parts for the
SR3500 update.

How about that? I've been hosting this list for 4 1/2 years now, and

I'm

well aware from all the messages over the years that the manual is one

of

the major points of complaint by builders... but I was still surprised
when
I pulled mine out of the box.

Oh well... I'm done venting now. It's good to finally have it here so I
can
get started!

Mike
195SR

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rickhm · Post by **rickhm** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:17 pm

Wow, Maybe floats are really complicated, I don't know. But this shouldn't
be that hard. I've worked on manuals of this complexity. A good tech writer
and it should be easy.

Rick Muller
SR70

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:55:05 -0800 Mike Davis <mike.davis@dcsol.com> wrote:

Hi Bill,

Having worked with Mike Kimball on his SR I'm pretty comfortable with what
is to come... I was just really surprised that they don't have a manual for
their #1 selling product! When I visited the factory in January I was told
that the reason they aren't going to offer the 3600 floats as kits is
because Darryl doesn't want to deal with writing the manual... I think that
says it all.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdelcambre@cox-internet.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: Moose Manual

Hi Mike.

I hate to say it, but your fun is only just beginning, with the manual.
Soon enough, you'll find that interpretation will be your most useful

skill.

Intuition and imagination will rank close behind. There are times when
you'll find rather large gaps in direction. I've only been working on

mine

for a couple of months, and have discovered such. Several years back, I
built a Glasair. Their manual is FABULOUS. I alway said that a person
could build that plane if he could read and knew left from right. This

one,

will take much more knowledge of aircraft construction.

The 'amateur built' category has it's mandate based on 'education and
recreation'. Just think of the education that you're about to receive.

Bill Delcambre
Lafayette, LA.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: Moose Manual

Hi all... well, N195AK is home, and most of the inventory done! John

and

I
drove the 4200 miles in just over 4 days. I would have come in a little
under 4, but we spent 8 hours at customs because some where along the

way

there was a break down in communication and our entry paper work was

sent

to
the border with Washington, not Alaska!

Anyway, the reason for this message is to share and vent my surprise
regarding the construction manual I received with my kit. The surprise

is

that there is no Moose manual... I got an SR2500 manual and the SR3500
upgrade packet. I'm really surprised by this since by MAM's own

account,

9
out of 10 kits they sell now are Moose kits. I've already sat down and
gone
through the Stab section, and when building from scratch it will take

some

time to ensure the SR3500 mods are applied appropriately during
construction. There are quite a few parts that the manual calls for

that

aren't even in the kit because they are superceded by new parts for the
SR3500 update.

How about that? I've been hosting this list for 4 1/2 years now, and

I'm

well aware from all the messages over the years that the manual is one

of

the major points of complaint by builders... but I was still surprised
when
I pulled mine out of the box.

Oh well... I'm done venting now. It's good to finally have it here so I
can
get started!

Mike
195SR

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Mike Kimball · Post by **Mike Kimball** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 pm

I sent in quite a few errors at first, but there were never any manual
updates on their website with the corrections I noted so I gave up. I'll
bet the corrections are not in Mike's new manual either. Too bad.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
S & L Aldrich
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose Manual

The manual definitely needs an update. I was also surprised with no 3500
manual. I am guilty of not sending in the errors that I found along the way
while building the tail. Mainly because once I figured it out I just sort of
moved on and forgot what was messed up. I am going to try to keep track
from now on and send in the typos or messed up sections.

Scott

-

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Rickhm at home · Post by **Rickhm at home** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 pm

In the world of software development there is a group called "Open Source"
where all the programs are free to download. If you change the code, the
rules are you must submit the change for all to share. OK..... What if we
posted the manuals on the web site and updated them ourselves? We couldn't
correct any of the pictures, but missing part numbers, right vs left
errors, errors in part numbers.... they would be easy. Arguable one issue
is "Who reviews it for correctness" In the Open Source world that would be
the users, in our world, that would be us. When you make changes, you make
an entry in the revision log indicating the nature of the changes. Lets
face it we have all found changes that lead us down the wrong path that
were often 100 characters or less to correct. Who knows, MAM might even be
willing to provide the word files and review the content of the changes
from time to time. I am only building a SR2500, so we might need two sets,
but from what you guys are telling me the manual for the SR3500 stinks and
the statistical probability of that changing at MAM's hands is <
.000000001%

Thoughts?

Rick Muller

SR 070

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kimball [SMTP:mkimball@gci.net]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose Manual

I sent in quite a few errors at first, but there were never any manual
updates on their website with the corrections I noted so I gave up. I'll
bet the corrections are not in Mike's new manual either. Too bad.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
S & L Aldrich
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose Manual

The manual definitely needs an update. I was also surprised with no 3500
manual. I am guilty of not sending in the errors that I found along the way
while building the tail. Mainly because once I figured it out I just sort
of
moved on and forgot what was messed up. I am going to try to keep track
from now on and send in the typos or messed up sections.

Scott

-

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Rick DeCiero · Post by **Rick DeCiero** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 pm

Mike,
I inadvertantly posted some pictures to the M-COWL site as opposed to the
R-COWL site. Please dump those at the M site, I reposted them to the R site.
The pictures show my lower cowl mods to provide clearance for the heat cuffs and
improve exit air flow. Standard rebel with O-320-E2D and speed cowl.
Good luck with the Moose, you'll need it.
Rick D.
Rebel N754SM

Mike Davis wrote:

Hi all... well, N195AK is home, and most of the inventory done! John and I
drove the 4200 miles in just over 4 days. I would have come in a little
under 4, but we spent 8 hours at customs because some where along the way
there was a break down in communication and our entry paper work was sent to
the border with Washington, not Alaska!

Anyway, the reason for this message is to share and vent my surprise
regarding the construction manual I received with my kit. The surprise is
that there is no Moose manual... I got an SR2500 manual and the SR3500
upgrade packet. I'm really surprised by this since by MAM's own account, 9
out of 10 kits they sell now are Moose kits. I've already sat down and gone
through the Stab section, and when building from scratch it will take some
time to ensure the SR3500 mods are applied appropriately during
construction. There are quite a few parts that the manual calls for that
aren't even in the kit because they are superceded by new parts for the
SR3500 update.

How about that? I've been hosting this list for 4 1/2 years now, and I'm
well aware from all the messages over the years that the manual is one of
the major points of complaint by builders... but I was still surprised when
I pulled mine out of the box.

Oh well... I'm done venting now. It's good to finally have it here so I can
get started!

Mike
195SR

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Mike's Email · Post by **Mike's Email** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 pm

We'd have to have some sort of review process to make sure at least two or three people agree with changes before they are made. Have to think about a bit of control and backups for the document. Some changes might be desired not because the manual is wrong, but rather because someone thinks there is a better way to do something, or a better order of doing things. Everyone might not agree with those kind of changes.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

----------
From: Rickhm at home
Reply To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 9:40 PM
To: 'murphy-rebel@dcsol.com'
Subject: RE: Moose Manual

In the world of software development there is a group called "Open Source" where all the programs are free to download. If you change the code, the rules are you must submit the change for all to share. OK?.. What if we posted the manuals on the web site and updated them ourselves? We couldn't correct any of the pictures, but missing part numbers, right vs left errors, errors in part numbers?. they would be easy. Arguable one issue is "Who reviews it for correctness" In the Open Source world that would be the users, in our world, that would be us. When you make changes, you make an entry in the revision log indicating the nature of the changes. Lets face it we have all found changes that lead us down the wrong path that were often 100 characters or less to correct. Who knows, MAM might even be willing to provide the word files and review the content of the changes from time to time. I am only building a SR2500, so we might need two sets, but from what you guys are telling me the manual for the SR3500 stinks and the statistical probability of that changing at MAM's hands is < .000000001%

Thoughts?

Rick Muller

SR 070

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kimball [SMTP:mkimball@gci.net]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose Manual

I sent in quite a few errors at first, but there were never any manual
updates on their website with the corrections I noted so I gave up. I'll
bet the corrections are not in Mike's new manual either. Too bad.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
S & L Aldrich
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose Manual

The manual definitely needs an update. I was also surprised with no 3500
manual. I am guilty of not sending in the errors that I found along the way
while building the tail. Mainly because once I figured it out I just sort of
moved on and forgot what was messed up. I am going to try to keep track
from now on and send in the typos or messed up sections.

Scott

-

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Al & Deb Paxhia · Post by **Al & Deb Paxhia** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Hi Mike,
Thank you for putting the manual up. I did the down load but can not read the pdf files, I get blank pages. Do I need a new version of Acrobat reader? I have 2.1 now.
Al

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Al,

I've got 4.0 installed on my system and it views them just fine... I think the current version is 5 or maybe 5.5 though.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: Al & Deb Paxhia (paxhia2@attbi.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: Moose Manual

Hi Mike,
Thank you for putting the manual up. I did the down load but can not read the pdf files, I get blank pages. Do I need a new version of Acrobat reader? I have 2.1 now.
Al

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Just another quick note about this "Moose" manual I uploaded... it's really just an SR2500 manual with the SR3500 mod information also, so this file is good for anybody who wants the most recent Super Rebel manual. It also has a photos section, I haven't looked through it yet though.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis (mike.davis@dcsol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Moose Manual

Al,

I've got 4.0 installed on my system and it views them just fine... I think the current version is 5 or maybe 5.5 though.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Al & Deb Paxhia (paxhia2@attbi.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: Moose Manual

Hi Mike,
Thank you for putting the manual up. I did the down load but can not read the pdf files, I get blank pages. Do I need a new version of Acrobat reader? I have 2.1 now.
Al