3 leaf trailer spring for tailwheel - Rebel

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Posted 2 pics to Rebel - Misc, of the steel tailwheel spring installation on
Charles Dixon's Rebel that's now deceased (the plane that is!) . I will
take a shot of the "as purchased" spring to show what needs to be cut to use
it as a tailspring, later tonight.

Cheers,
Wayne






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[rognal]

Wayne,

I searched through the archives for more info about the use of this leaf spring
setup, but I did not find much. Do you suggest this as an improvement over the
current issue aluminum tailspring?

Roger Hoffman #687
Eugene, OR USA!

On 7/11/02 7:14 AM, OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Posted 2 pics to Rebel - Misc, of the steel tailwheel spring installation on
-> Charles Dixon's Rebel that's now deceased (the plane that is!) . I will
-> take a shot of the "as purchased" spring to show what needs to be cut to use
-> it as a tailspring, later tonight.
->
-> Cheers,
-> Wayne
->
->
->





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

The old 1/2" aluminum spring immediately straightened out and went through
your rudder, if you dropped the tailwheel even staticly from flying attitude
height. The newer aluminum spring is 5/8" thick so may not do so, but it is
supplied bent too much and puts the tailwheel pivot in a positive rake angle
causing a very twitchy tailwheel. You want your tailwheel either level or
with a negative (trailing) rake angle. Therefore you need to flatten the
spring a bit on original installation to do so. Only time will tell if it
then straightens out even more, only to put you in the same boat as the 1/2"
spring (NFG). I left George's 5/8" spring with the extra bend in it in hopes
that after 50 hours or so of flight it would straighten out, so the
tailwheel pivoted properly. You don't want to do this if you have none, or
very little TD time, as it will bit you in the @$$. Warned George of this so
he knows if it's too much to handle to remove and straighten.

The steel 3 leaf on the other hand, that I have been using and cutting, puts
the tailwheel at a perfectly level position and it will stand up better than
the aluminum one. It also adds about 5 pounds to the equation, right where
you need it on a Lyco or Sub powered Rebel, on the tail.

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: 3 leaf trailer spring for tailwheel - Rebel

Wayne,

I searched through the archives for more info about the use of this leaf

spring

setup, but I did not find much. Do you suggest this as an improvement over

the

current issue aluminum tailspring?

Roger Hoffman #687
Eugene, OR USA!

On 7/11/02 7:14 AM, OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Posted 2 pics to Rebel - Misc, of the steel tailwheel spring

installation on

-> Charles Dixon's Rebel that's now deceased (the plane that is!) . I

will

-> take a shot of the "as purchased" spring to show what needs to be cut

to use

-> it as a tailspring, later tonight.
->
-> Cheers,
-> Wayne
->
->
->

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[Rick DeCiero]

Wayne,
Thanks for the pics. They are worth a thousand words. I have included a
previous post below for others who may not have seen it. It describes your
method quite well and the pics confirm the details. One point that I was not
sure about was whether you had bolted through two leafs at the fuselage attach
end. Do you think bolting through the 2 is advisable? There is plenty of
material on my second leaf to do that. I purchased a spring from J.C. Whitney
here in the states. The total length of the spring is 30" from the rolled eye to
the approx center of the curl. 1 3/4" wide and each leaf is .291 thick. Part no.
18XD4470A $17.95 +12.00 shipping. It is made in the USA. I am in the process
of fitting it this week.It should work well and appears to be basically the same
spring that you have.

Good luck, you'll need it,
Rick D.


Previous posts:

Subject:
Re: Steel tail spring
Date:
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:04:38 +1300
From:
"Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
Reply-To:
<murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
To:
"Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>




I believe I have the 7075 aluminum tail spring, I have kit #513. I found it
to be too rigid for the kit tailwheel but when I put a pneumatic tailwheel
assembly on it appears to be perfectly suited. I have 200 hours on it with
no complaints.

Cheers

Alister

Yes, I have been trying to convince most to use a 3 leaf steel trailer
spring for the tail spring. Works great, doesn't significantly straighten
out over time like the Aluminum ones did, or delaminate like the fiberglass
ones do(the AULA Rebel one had 15 hours on it, so wasn't from exposure to
the elements!) and definitely helps with the C of G!

The spring I use (mine has been on for 4 years, and gets a lot of abuse!) is
from Canadian Tire, 3 leafs X 1&3/4" wide with one end having a bolt "curl"
and the other the spring leaf just bent back (doesn't really matter as you
cut it off anyway). It is rated at 950lbs 25" long. CTC # 40-8417-6. Spring
is same thickness (at 2 leaf area) as the old Aluminum and fiberglass ones
for clamping purposes at the tail post. Looking in Princess Auto's
Catalogue page 131 spring "A" item 2080096 may work also, but I wouldn't
know for sure.

The CTC spring is fitted as follows: Cut the "curl" off as tight to the curl
as possible. This is the Attach end!
Then cut the single leaf area on the other end Flush with the second leaf.
This is the Tail Wheel end!
Then disassemble the 3 leafs so you can cut 2 inches off the 3rd spring (at
the end towards the attach end). This is necessary to clear the Rudder hinge
and safety tie bolts. Reassemble the tail spring. Position spring in holder
to mark for attach bolt location (usually just enough edge distance left on
spring to do so). Remove and drill the 3/8" attach hole. Clamp tailwheel in
place and mark/drill bolt hole to match tail wheel mounting hole. Assemble
everything after coating spring with rust inhibitor or painting. (I prefer
the rust inhibitor LP3 or similar as it will keep things from rusting
between the leafs)

I <HIGHLY RECOMMEND> the SCOTT 3200 tail wheel, using Scott's Tension Spring
kit for the steering chains. Take your bank Manager with you to purchase one
however (close to $600 U.S. for the set)!!! The MAM tailwheel is too small
for anything but pavement/hard dirt flying and the Maule tail wheels can be
a shimmy nightmare (or a casting breaking nightmare, as Angus can confirm!)
If you try to use the compression style "screen door closer" springs on the
Scott tail wheel (or any) you can not run the chains tight. If you do the
spring will bottom out and then bend/crack your tail wheel steering horns,
if you have turned one way, stop and then push opposite rudder to straighten
yourself out prior to rolling straight.

Did that help any?!?!?

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Bolting to fus through 2 leafs might make it a bit stiff, considering you
are already doing so at the tailwheel yoke. If you only use one leaf up
under the tail it will let the springs flex better, but you can try it with
two and if too stiff just clip the upper leaf off and lengthen your spacer.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick DeCiero" <rsdec1@star.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: 3 leaf trailer spring for tailwheel - Rebel

Wayne,
Thanks for the pics. They are worth a thousand words. I have included

a

previous post below for others who may not have seen it. It describes your
method quite well and the pics confirm the details. One point that I was

not

sure about was whether you had bolted through two leafs at the fuselage

attach

end. Do you think bolting through the 2 is advisable? There is plenty of
material on my second leaf to do that. I purchased a spring from J.C.

Whitney

here in the states. The total length of the spring is 30" from the rolled

eye to

the approx center of the curl. 1 3/4" wide and each leaf is .291 thick.

Part no.

18XD4470A $17.95 +12.00 shipping. It is made in the USA. I am in the

process

of fitting it this week.It should work well and appears to be basically

the same

spring that you have.

Good luck, you'll need it,
Rick D.


Previous posts:

Subject:
Re: Steel tail spring
Date:
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:04:38 +1300
From:
"Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
Reply-To:
<murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
To:
"Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>




I believe I have the 7075 aluminum tail spring, I have kit #513. I found

it

to be too rigid for the kit tailwheel but when I put a pneumatic tailwheel
assembly on it appears to be perfectly suited. I have 200 hours on it with
no complaints.

Cheers

Alister

Yes, I have been trying to convince most to use a 3 leaf steel trailer
spring for the tail spring. Works great, doesn't significantly straighten
out over time like the Aluminum ones did, or delaminate like the

fiberglass

ones do(the AULA Rebel one had 15 hours on it, so wasn't from exposure to
the elements!) and definitely helps with the C of G!

The spring I use (mine has been on for 4 years, and gets a lot of abuse!)

is

from Canadian Tire, 3 leafs X 1&3/4" wide with one end having a bolt

"curl"

and the other the spring leaf just bent back (doesn't really matter as you
cut it off anyway). It is rated at 950lbs 25" long. CTC # 40-8417-6.

Spring

is same thickness (at 2 leaf area) as the old Aluminum and fiberglass ones
for clamping purposes at the tail post. Looking in Princess Auto's
Catalogue page 131 spring "A" item 2080096 may work also, but I wouldn't
know for sure.

The CTC spring is fitted as follows: Cut the "curl" off as tight to the

curl

as possible. This is the Attach end!
Then cut the single leaf area on the other end Flush with the second leaf.
This is the Tail Wheel end!
Then disassemble the 3 leafs so you can cut 2 inches off the 3rd spring

(at

the end towards the attach end). This is necessary to clear the Rudder

hinge

and safety tie bolts. Reassemble the tail spring. Position spring in

holder

to mark for attach bolt location (usually just enough edge distance left

on

spring to do so). Remove and drill the 3/8" attach hole. Clamp tailwheel

in

place and mark/drill bolt hole to match tail wheel mounting hole. Assemble
everything after coating spring with rust inhibitor or painting. (I prefer
the rust inhibitor LP3 or similar as it will keep things from rusting
between the leafs)

I <HIGHLY RECOMMEND> the SCOTT 3200 tail wheel, using Scott's Tension

Spring

kit for the steering chains. Take your bank Manager with you to purchase

one

however (close to $600 U.S. for the set)!!! The MAM tailwheel is too small
for anything but pavement/hard dirt flying and the Maule tail wheels can

be

a shimmy nightmare (or a casting breaking nightmare, as Angus can

confirm!)

If you try to use the compression style "screen door closer" springs on

the

Scott tail wheel (or any) you can not run the chains tight. If you do the
spring will bottom out and then bend/crack your tail wheel steering horns,
if you have turned one way, stop and then push opposite rudder to

straighten

yourself out prior to rolling straight.

Did that help any?!?!?

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

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[klehman]

You probably don't want a bolt through both ends of two leaves. More
than one bolt puts huge shearing stress on the bolts if/when the spring
flexes between the bolts (And a lot of tension on the tailpost clamp
bolts).
Ken

Rick DeCiero wrote:

Wayne,
Thanks for the pics. They are worth a thousand words. I have included a
previous post below for others who may not have seen it. It describes your
method quite well and the pics confirm the details. One point that I was not
sure about was whether you had bolted through two leafs at the fuselage attach
end. Do you think bolting through the 2 is advisable? There is plenty of
material on my second leaf to do that. I purchased a spring from J.C. Whitney
here in the states. The total length of the spring is 30" from the rolled

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[Rick DeCiero]

Ken and Wayne,
Excellent points! My thoughts would be to attach the fuse end with the two leafs
bolted and the tailwheel to only the main leaf. This is the way most tailwheel
springs that I have seen are set up. Thanks for the feedback.
Rick D.

klehman wrote:

You probably don't want a bolt through both ends of two leaves. More
than one bolt puts huge shearing stress on the bolts if/when the spring
flexes between the bolts (And a lot of tension on the tailpost clamp
bolts).
Ken

Rick DeCiero wrote:

Wayne,
Thanks for the pics. They are worth a thousand words. I have included a
previous post below for others who may not have seen it. It describes your
method quite well and the pics confirm the details. One point that I was not
sure about was whether you had bolted through two leafs at the fuselage attach
end. Do you think bolting through the 2 is advisable? There is plenty of
material on my second leaf to do that. I purchased a spring from J.C. Whitney
here in the states. The total length of the spring is 30" from the rolled

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