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System 3 paint

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Bob Patterson

System 3 paint

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:04 pm

Hi Wayne !

I'm not surprised you had a hard time removing that System 3
paint !! The Rebel builder in Quebec who decided not to finish
his Rebel with it after priming half the airframe, said that some
spots would fall off with a touch, while others needed a chisel !!
He finally sanded it all off, though and went to a more normal
paint system.

For anyone considering using System 3 Water-Based Paint
System - we know of several Rebel builders who have had bad results -
paint peeling off or flaking off in sheets withing months of
completion !! They were all very unhappy with the manufacturer's
response to complaints ..... "So sue us !!" !!!

There are many better choices !!

.....bobp

PS
My Rebel goes into the paint shop in 2 weeks or so - for
R-M brand 'UNA' 2 part acrylic enamel paint .... and there's an RV
after me. Then George's could get in .... These guys are good,
and will be busy. They do need AT LEAST 2 weeks per airplane, and
3 or 4 isn't uncommon if there are 'extras' (like a new windshield,
wing tips, etc. .....)

--------------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 05:44 PM 3/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
Brian, I would think that the local AME at Brampton would have a pocket size
digital/optical tach that you could rent from him for 10 minutes or actually
you would probably have rent him for 10 minutes x their I think $80/hr I saw
on their door last time I was there (or shove 20 bucks in his pocket!). I
would also suspect that one of the RAA members at Brampton has one in his
hanger. I have one, but a little out of your way to get it. Easy to use by
simply firing her up and pointing it through the windshield (or out the
door) at the propellor. It is an annual requirement on all direct drive
tachs (homebuilt or certified!) to verify they are acurate within 3% (or it
might be 5 can never remember) per CARS.

What HP is you engine supposed to be? If indeed you are spinning that -58
(that it seems you have since it's courser than Bob's) beyond redline, you
must be really putting out some serious HP. Like I said Howard's can be
redlined but he is running a <VERY> fine -52 on his 150 HP E2D and Bob's can
be just readlined at full throttle with his E2D which creates a darn good
cruise I must add of 106 to 108 <KNOTS> (~130 MPH) when I was test flying
it.

By the way, who/where is this paint shop you used? When I am finished with
George Christie's (was Toby, Lawrence and George, but now just George's)
Rebel here, in a month or so, they will be looking for a place to have it
stripped (of that wonderful System 3 SHIT) and repainted with some real
product. It is going to be interesting to see how well it strips. Even
though half the plane is peeling on it's own I have tried two brands of
stripped to clean off were I am rebuilding the lower rudder and FUS-30 and
the stuff won't blister and/or lift! 3 coats of stripper to get enough off
the rudder to do a patch gusset to a clean area. Glad I told George I
wouldn't strip the entire plane, as I wasn't set up for that kind of work!


Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca



----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian & Pat Cross" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: Warp Drive

HI Walter et al

It is my understanding that Jack did not have a catastrophic failure but
cracking only. He called me from the spot he was stranded but I was not
home. He wanted to borrow my prop blades in order to get himself home.

I understand that you can fly with cracked blades. I myself do not feel
comfortable with this situation. It is a personal choice & I have made
mine. The beauty of the Warp Drive of course is that you can optimize
performance per your needs. Not so with the Sensenich as I have found out
as my performance has suffered in every area except with the possibility
of
climb. I am going to miss the upcoming flight to Florida as the prop is
performing so badly I would never keep up to Bob P. & company. I don't
want
to redline the engine all the way to FLorida in order to keep up with the
pack. The moral of the story is that the Sensenich is obviously not a
sure
thing as I thought & you will have to allow yourself lots of time in order
to get things right - hopefully they do.

I did just check my prop yesterday. It indeed is stamped 74DM7S6-0-58 SN
A59402. Thanks for you suggestions Wayne just read it this morning. I
measured it against Bob's prop & it has about 1 more degree of twist total
measured 7" in from the tips i.e. about 31.3 degrees vs. 30.3 for Bob's
which indicates a higher/coarser pitch but it sure is not performing as
such.

Wayne, do you know of anyone who can accurately measure my tach? If that
is
right, the Sensenich folks say the prop should be 62-63 inch pitch. The
prop does measure 74" in diameter. I did purchase the prop from MAM.

Any comments greatly appreciated.\

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:00 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Warp Drive


Brian, when you say Jack Wiebe had a prop failure, do you mean the cracks
appeared, or did the prop actually break and cause a forced landing?

I run the 150 HP O320, and after 80 hours, no cracks yet, but I check it
closely with every pre-flight. However, my understanding has always been
that this problem does not cause an immediate catastrophic failure, so
haven't worried about it too much. So far (prior to this note), I have not
heard of a total failure of a Warp Drive with this problem. BUT if I am
wrong, I sure would like to know, as that would definitely change my view
of
this prop.

Incidentally, there is a guy here locally that has been flying his Warp
Drive for over 300 hours AFTER the cracks appeared. He is well aware of
what
he is doing, but strongly believes the prop is safe.

As to performance, my Warp Drive seems to compare pretty closely to the
other Rebels in my area that have the metal props, so I am satisfied that
way. However, I am toying with the idea of buying a Sensenich as a second
prop, and to see if there really is a difference or not.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Brian & Pat Cross
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:26 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Warp Drive


Hi Scott

My friend, Jack Wiebe, had a prop failure with his Warp Drive. I think he
had about 300 odd hours on his prop and it cracked.

I just heard from my buddy Ron Barber a few minutes ago, & yes, I will
write
to you shortly who has the square tip Warp drive with cracks at the hub.
Jack's & mine are taper tips. They all work well but are cracking at the
hub.

I cannot even think about trying to fly the thing with the potential of a
prop failure. I can screw very well by myself without any external help.
My comfort/confidence level is not there with the Warp Drive on the 0320.
Probably on the lower HP engines it is OK.

I am not happy so far with the Sensenich so far as the Warp Drive way
outperformed the Sensenich but I am sure I will recover some of the lost
performance in the next 2-4 weeks.

In my previous email, I want to clarify that I am 100% happy, no make that
110% happy with the services of John Goris at Purple Hill Air for painting
&
other small stuff. I want everyone to know that.

Cheers for now


Brian #328R


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Wayne G. O'Shea

System 3 paint

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:04 pm

That was basically how I removed enough paint/primer, to bare aluminum, to
put a reinforcing panel on each side of the lower rudder skin (rib to spar)
area. On the 3rd plastering of stripper I actually used a 1" wide wood
chisel to remove the slightly softened paint. The yellow primer was the
hardest and it lifts in only minor areas (like negative skin moles) and
leaves the major amount attached. Too bad they couldn't get this formulation
consistent considering other places simply fall off with a simply the touch
of the hand, right down to bare metal. Hopefully for George's sake the paint
shop has some better idea's and materials, because you certainly can't use a
chisel to remove the paint in places that aren't being hid by a new sheet of
.025!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: System 3 paint

Hi Wayne !

I'm not surprised you had a hard time removing that System 3
paint !! The Rebel builder in Quebec who decided not to finish
his Rebel with it after priming half the airframe, said that some
spots would fall off with a touch, while others needed a chisel !!
He finally sanded it all off, though and went to a more normal
paint system.

For anyone considering using System 3 Water-Based Paint
System - we know of several Rebel builders who have had bad results -
paint peeling off or flaking off in sheets withing months of
completion !! They were all very unhappy with the manufacturer's
response to complaints ..... "So sue us !!" !!!

There are many better choices !!

.....bobp

PS
My Rebel goes into the paint shop in 2 weeks or so - for
R-M brand 'UNA' 2 part acrylic enamel paint .... and there's an RV
after me. Then George's could get in .... These guys are good,
and will be busy. They do need AT LEAST 2 weeks per airplane, and
3 or 4 isn't uncommon if there are 'extras' (like a new windshield,
wing tips, etc. .....)

--------------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 05:44 PM 3/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
Brian, I would think that the local AME at Brampton would have a pocket
size
digital/optical tach that you could rent from him for 10 minutes or
actually
you would probably have rent him for 10 minutes x their I think $80/hr I
saw
on their door last time I was there (or shove 20 bucks in his pocket!). I
would also suspect that one of the RAA members at Brampton has one in his
hanger. I have one, but a little out of your way to get it. Easy to use
by
simply firing her up and pointing it through the windshield (or out the
door) at the propellor. It is an annual requirement on all direct drive
tachs (homebuilt or certified!) to verify they are acurate within 3% (or
it
might be 5 can never remember) per CARS.

What HP is you engine supposed to be? If indeed you are spinning that -58
(that it seems you have since it's courser than Bob's) beyond redline,
you
must be really putting out some serious HP. Like I said Howard's can be
redlined but he is running a <VERY> fine -52 on his 150 HP E2D and Bob's
can
be just readlined at full throttle with his E2D which creates a darn good
cruise I must add of 106 to 108 <KNOTS> (~130 MPH) when I was test flying
it.

By the way, who/where is this paint shop you used? When I am finished
with
George Christie's (was Toby, Lawrence and George, but now just George's)
Rebel here, in a month or so, they will be looking for a place to have it
stripped (of that wonderful System 3 SHIT) and repainted with some real
product. It is going to be interesting to see how well it strips. Even
though half the plane is peeling on it's own I have tried two brands of
stripped to clean off were I am rebuilding the lower rudder and FUS-30
and
the stuff won't blister and/or lift! 3 coats of stripper to get enough
off
the rudder to do a patch gusset to a clean area. Glad I told George I
wouldn't strip the entire plane, as I wasn't set up for that kind of
work!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca



----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian & Pat Cross" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: Warp Drive

HI Walter et al

It is my understanding that Jack did not have a catastrophic failure
but
cracking only. He called me from the spot he was stranded but I was
not
home. He wanted to borrow my prop blades in order to get himself home.

I understand that you can fly with cracked blades. I myself do not
feel
comfortable with this situation. It is a personal choice & I have made
mine. The beauty of the Warp Drive of course is that you can optimize
performance per your needs. Not so with the Sensenich as I have found
out
as my performance has suffered in every area except with the
possibility
of
climb. I am going to miss the upcoming flight to Florida as the prop
is
performing so badly I would never keep up to Bob P. & company. I don't
want
to redline the engine all the way to FLorida in order to keep up with
the
pack. The moral of the story is that the Sensenich is obviously not a
sure
thing as I thought & you will have to allow yourself lots of time in
order
to get things right - hopefully they do.

I did just check my prop yesterday. It indeed is stamped 74DM7S6-0-58
SN
A59402. Thanks for you suggestions Wayne just read it this morning. I
measured it against Bob's prop & it has about 1 more degree of twist
total
measured 7" in from the tips i.e. about 31.3 degrees vs. 30.3 for Bob's
which indicates a higher/coarser pitch but it sure is not performing as
such.

Wayne, do you know of anyone who can accurately measure my tach? If
that
is
right, the Sensenich folks say the prop should be 62-63 inch pitch.
The
prop does measure 74" in diameter. I did purchase the prop from MAM.

Any comments greatly appreciated.\

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf
Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:00 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Warp Drive


Brian, when you say Jack Wiebe had a prop failure, do you mean the
cracks
appeared, or did the prop actually break and cause a forced landing?

I run the 150 HP O320, and after 80 hours, no cracks yet, but I check
it
closely with every pre-flight. However, my understanding has always
been
that this problem does not cause an immediate catastrophic failure, so
haven't worried about it too much. So far (prior to this note), I have
not
heard of a total failure of a Warp Drive with this problem. BUT if I am
wrong, I sure would like to know, as that would definitely change my
view
of
this prop.

Incidentally, there is a guy here locally that has been flying his Warp
Drive for over 300 hours AFTER the cracks appeared. He is well aware of
what
he is doing, but strongly believes the prop is safe.

As to performance, my Warp Drive seems to compare pretty closely to the
other Rebels in my area that have the metal props, so I am satisfied
that
way. However, I am toying with the idea of buying a Sensenich as a
second
prop, and to see if there really is a difference or not.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf
Of
Brian & Pat Cross
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 8:26 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Warp Drive


Hi Scott

My friend, Jack Wiebe, had a prop failure with his Warp Drive. I think
he
had about 300 odd hours on his prop and it cracked.

I just heard from my buddy Ron Barber a few minutes ago, & yes, I will
write
to you shortly who has the square tip Warp drive with cracks at the
hub.
Jack's & mine are taper tips. They all work well but are cracking at
the
hub.

I cannot even think about trying to fly the thing with the potential of
a
prop failure. I can screw very well by myself without any external
help.
My comfort/confidence level is not there with the Warp Drive on the
0320.
Probably on the lower HP engines it is OK.

I am not happy so far with the Sensenich so far as the Warp Drive way
outperformed the Sensenich but I am sure I will recover some of the
lost
performance in the next 2-4 weeks.

In my previous email, I want to clarify that I am 100% happy, no make
that
110% happy with the services of John Goris at Purple Hill Air for
painting
&
other small stuff. I want everyone to know that.

Cheers for now


Brian #328R


** To unsubscribe, send e-mail to list-server@dcsol.com with
**
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**
** Archives located at
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**
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**

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**
** Archives located at
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**
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
**

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**
** To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
**


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**
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**

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