Float mounting

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Hello Angus!

Cutting vertical struts caught my eye! Some AME must have got to you and
told you the Rebel is mounted to high on floats aye!?! They all seem to say
that, but it sure clears any dock posts that come along when it sits that
high. IF this is what you are doing (ie lowering it down), which I must say
does make it look a little "sexier", I'm sure you have already realized that
you will need to make new front strut attach blocks with a tighter angle on
them to keep the aircraft located in the same place above the floats. The
big thing you will have to do is shorten your spreader bars and narrow the
float stance, otherwise the vertical struts angle will be less than 45
degrees and a hard landing my just take them the rest of the way to zero!
Just food for thought, but I'm sure you have it all figured out!

What is drilling the sister keels all about??

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Grant" <jgrant@lweb.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:27 AM
Subject: Batteries and fairings

Our floats are almost ready to install.Its not like they needed much

anyway

since Carm used them last year but I have done a bit of maintainance to
them ,replace some bearings etc. and just need to drill the sister keels
for suction relief and shorten the vertical struts.
All of my interior amphib installation mods are done except I have to
finish machining the ends for the 4130 brace I am putting between my top
engine mounts under the dash.Then when I change my windshield I will
pick-up on this with diagonal braces to the forward wing attachments. All
of this airplane stuff has had to be put on hold until my lovely wife is
satisfyed that I have put enough effort into her house renovation
plans,then if I've been good I can play with the Rebel.
Also,my doors get sucked out at the upper-front corners and I have not

come

up with a fix yet.
Best regards to all, Angus McKenzie

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[Walter Klatt]

I am working at getting my 1800 amphibs mounted and thought I would try to
get some advice from some of you guys out East who seem to have the most
experience. I live in the Vancouver area which is Murhpy's back yard, and be
damned if I can find another Rebel on amphibs in this area, even to look at.
Murphy sold off their Elite demonstrator that was on amphibs, so it isn't
around anymore either.

Anyway, I am at the stage where I am ready to attach the floats and struts
to the aircraft. I have followed the manual pretty well exactly so far, and
it was fairly straight forward. However, before I attach the struts and
cable bracing, I want to check if any of you experienced float drivers out
there have tried different angles of incident. The manual says to open the
front up 5/32 inch for every 18 inches. Is this the best setting? The strut
attach fittings have multiple bolt holes and this can be changed up or down
by lengthening the front or back strut. I don't know if C of G matters, but
mine is a little nose heavy with the battery up front and an O320.

I have already had one person tell me to lengthen the front strut by one
hole which gives better landings and take-offs on water.

Any advice on this or other float stuff to watch out for will be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.




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[Rebflyer]

Hi Walter,
I'm not sure of the answers as to where the original setup should be in
relation to the manual, but I called the factory for simpler numbers and
method.
What they described to me was a 2 1/2 deg diff. between the bottom of the
wing and the top of the float. That sure seemed like an easier way to mount
the floats than to level this to that with a difference in dimension over a
short distance. The 2.5deg gives the 6deg difference of the chord to float
that seems to work for most float ops. I asked a number of people involved
with floats about that number, and one person who was involved with wipline
for a number of years stated that was where they always started. Then they
flew the plane and made the changes if necessary.
As for my setup, I'm going to do the weight and balance on Tues.
Everythings in place. I'm just a little geeked!!! I was hoping to make OSH
but don't think I'll be ready. I want to fly a little before I come to the
show. I still have to get my rating for floats. So much to do, so little
time! I'll be looking forward to seeing everyone at OSH, airplane or not.
Which brings me to a point. I was just told by the factory that they are
NOT having the dinner this year!! What's up with that!! Maybe we should
all try to gather somewhere anyway. Like at the Murphy tent!! I think I'll
drop Daryl a line and lodge my first real gripe!!
Keep at it, it's worth it!! Curt N97MR

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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks Curt. That's what I'm looking for. I will also be talking to the factory this week, so the more ideas and opinions I get, the better.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: July 15, 2001 5:17 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float Mounting


Hi Walter,
I'm not sure of the answers as to where the original setup should be in
relation to the manual, but I called the factory for simpler numbers and
method.
What they described to me was a 2 1/2 deg diff. between the bottom of the
wing and the top of the float. That sure seemed like an easier way to mount
the floats than to level this to that with a difference in dimension over a
short distance. The 2.5deg gives the 6deg difference of the chord to float
that seems to work for most float ops. I asked a number of people involved
with floats about that number, and one person who was involved with wipline
for a number of years stated that was where they always started. Then they
flew the plane and made the changes if necessary.
As for my setup, I'm going to do the weight and balance on Tues.
Everythings in place. I'm just a little geeked!!! I was hoping to make OSH
but don't think I'll be ready. I want to fly a little before I come to the
show. I still have to get my rating for floats. So much to do, so little
time! I'll be looking forward to seeing everyone at OSH, airplane or not.
Which brings me to a point. I was just told by the factory that they are
NOT having the dinner this year!! What's up with that!! Maybe we should
all try to gather somewhere anyway. Like at the Murphy tent!! I think I'll
drop Daryl a line and lodge my first real gripe!!
Keep at it, it's worth it!! Curt N97MR

[Walter Klatt]

I got another update from MAM on this, and they now tell me to start at 2.6
degrees open angle between the float tops and bottom of the upper door sill,
not the wing.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: July 14, 2001 7:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float Mounting


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I am working at getting my 1800 amphibs mounted and thought I would try to
get some advice from some of you guys out East who seem to have the most
experience. I live in the Vancouver area which is Murhpy's back yard, and be
damned if I can find another Rebel on amphibs in this area, even to look at.
Murphy sold off their Elite demonstrator that was on amphibs, so it isn't
around anymore either.

Anyway, I am at the stage where I am ready to attach the floats and struts
to the aircraft. I have followed the manual pretty well exactly so far, and
it was fairly straight forward. However, before I attach the struts and
cable bracing, I want to check if any of you experienced float drivers out
there have tried different angles of incident. The manual says to open the
front up 5/32 inch for every 18 inches. Is this the best setting? The strut
attach fittings have multiple bolt holes and this can be changed up or down
by lengthening the front or back strut. I don't know if C of G matters, but
mine is a little nose heavy with the battery up front and an O320.

I have already had one person tell me to lengthen the front strut by one
hole which gives better landings and take-offs on water.

Any advice on this or other float stuff to watch out for will be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Hi Curt, Walter and ALL.

Noticed in the archives some talk on float mounting.

Howard has been extremely happy with the set up I did on his about 4 years
ago. We haven't moved the floats in relation to the aircraft since the
original test flight that Bob P. did for Howard in 1997 (or was it 1998, I
can't remember what I did yesterday). Howard's empty C of G is about 9.75
inches aft of datum.

I had my wife take a picture of me flying by (in Howard's Rebel) on wheels
at 45 MPH, in ground effect on a level field, and used a protractor on the
picture to get the "attack" angle of the cabin bottom as I flew by. I
mounted the floats to represent the level ground.

The floats are mounted 2 degrees (negative) with relation to the bottom
(outside) cabin floor (the flat area directly under the seats).This equates
to about 6 degrees negative to the theoretical wing chord. To be clear, that
is the floats are nose down in relation to the cabin floor by 2 degrees.OR
the aircraft is nose up 2 degrees, in relation to the floats flat deck.

I noticed Jack Weibe's amphib, with the Mackenzie STOL kit on it, is mounted
even more nose up from this to make up for the slower (higher nose) landing
speeds that are apparently possible with the cuffed leading edges, so make
sure you leave enough adjustment to lower the back end if the need arises.
You don't want to be raising the fronts higher than they already are. When
you do the back x-cables make them as short as you can with the turnbuckles
out as far as safely allowed so you can tighten them up if you lower by one
hole, to save redoing the cables if you lower the rear attach struts.

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca





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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks Wayne. Your 2 degrees was MAM's initial recommendation, but they now
suggest starting at 2.6 degrees. The .6 degrees represents one hole longer
on the front struts.

The float assembly manual has the attach fittings mounted with no holes
above the strut tops front or back. So if I want to increase the angle from
2 to 2.6 degrees, I can't lower the back, and can only raise the front,
unless I cut the rear strut shorter.

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: July 24, 2001 7:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Float Mounting


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Hi Curt, Walter and ALL.

Noticed in the archives some talk on float mounting.

Howard has been extremely happy with the set up I did on his about 4 years
ago. We haven't moved the floats in relation to the aircraft since the
original test flight that Bob P. did for Howard in 1997 (or was it 1998, I
can't remember what I did yesterday). Howard's empty C of G is about 9.75
inches aft of datum.

I had my wife take a picture of me flying by (in Howard's Rebel) on wheels
at 45 MPH, in ground effect on a level field, and used a protractor on the
picture to get the "attack" angle of the cabin bottom as I flew by. I
mounted the floats to represent the level ground.

The floats are mounted 2 degrees (negative) with relation to the bottom
(outside) cabin floor (the flat area directly under the seats).This equates
to about 6 degrees negative to the theoretical wing chord. To be clear, that
is the floats are nose down in relation to the cabin floor by 2 degrees.OR
the aircraft is nose up 2 degrees, in relation to the floats flat deck.

I noticed Jack Weibe's amphib, with the Mackenzie STOL kit on it, is mounted
even more nose up from this to make up for the slower (higher nose) landing
speeds that are apparently possible with the cuffed leading edges, so make
sure you leave enough adjustment to lower the back end if the need arises.
You don't want to be raising the fronts higher than they already are. When
you do the back x-cables make them as short as you can with the turnbuckles
out as far as safely allowed so you can tighten them up if you lower by one
hole, to save redoing the cables if you lower the rear attach struts.

Have fun,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


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