Rebel Questions

[Mike Kimball]

That's a very nice looking Rebel Rick! Sure wish I was still in South
Australia where I spent 5 years flying my Murphy Renegade Spirit all over
the place, including the Australian version of Oshkosh in Victoria. Now I
can't remember the name of the airport or the event. Where you able to
attend anytime between 1991 and 1996? I was there one year with my blue and
white Renegade Spirit, and another year with a 1948 Stinson Voyager.

Mike Kimball
SR#044

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[Rick Harper]

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Kimball <agt@mosquitonet.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, 2 July 2001 11:29
Subject: RE: Rebel Questions


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G'DAY MIKE !

(AND SORRY TO EVERYONE ELSE....I DIDN'T MEAN TO SEND ALL THOSE
PIC'S TO THE CHAT PAGE....I'M NOT VERY GOOD AT THIS KOMPUTTER
STUFF :-)


That's a very nice looking Rebel Rick!

THANKS !

Sure wish I was still in South

Australia where I spent 5 years flying my Murphy Renegade Spirit all over
the place, including the Australian version of Oshkosh in Victoria. Now I
can't remember the name of the airport or the event.

YOU MEAN TO "MANGALORE" .....

Where you able to

attend anytime between 1991 and 1996? I was there one year with my blue

and

white Renegade Spirit, and another year with a 1948 Stinson Voyager.

WENDY AND I FIRST WENT / FLEW TO MANGALORE IN ABOUT '94 IN
OUR TRIKE (POWERED HANG GLIDER)....WE CAUSED QUITE A STIR
WHEN WE ARRIVED DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF LUGGAGE AND CAMPING
GEAR WE HAD STRAPPED TO THE SIDE OF IT ! (AND UNDER, AND STUFFED
INTO THE WING CAVITIES ETC, ETC )

I DON'T REMEMBER A BLUE RENEGADE....BUT I DO REMEMBER AN OLD
RED STINSON...AND TALKING TO THE PILOT AND PASSENGER AT THE
TIME !!! (I THINK THAT WAS ABOUT 95-96 ISH )
FROM MEMORY ONE OR BOTH GUYS WERE WHITE HAIRED...BUT I'M NOT
100% SURE....WAS THAT YOU ?

RICK & WENDY
541R

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[Rebflyer]

Hi Brian
I can't remember if you were asked these questions or not so here goes again. Have you tested the gage? Where are you picking up the temp? From a probe style thermo couple ala original equip or an under the plug style? The under the plug style is a plus 40
deg on the bottom and a -40 under the top plug compaired to the screw in probe style.
I too have the speed cowl and the temps on mine are ok. Good luck the answer is there somewhere. Curt N97MR



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Brian !

Yes, I always use full flapperon for takeoff and landing.
That's what it was designed for ! This is NOT a Cessna, it's a
real airplane ! The flapperons alter the shape of the whole airfoil,
to provide more lift - unlike the barn doors on a Cessna that are
designed for drag.

I always used flapperon on takeoff on floats, too - it just
hops off the water.

The standard cowl from Murphy is $285 USD. It has a fiberglass
nosebowl and aluminum sides, and can be modified to be very accessible.
Your speed cowl can be made to work better, though -
if you add the cowl flap at the bottom, you should get better cooling.
This is a copy of the bottom channel made of aluminum, hinged at the
carb., so it can swing down at the back - Glen Cook's is working very
well. Also, rounding off the lip at the bottom of the firewall should
help.

Note Curt's words of wisdom on the type and position of CHT
sensor - the spark-plug type will read 40 degrees lower on the top
plug than the bottom !!

.....bobp

------------------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 08:09 AM 6/29/01 -0700, you wrote:

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Bob, are you saying you use FULL flaperons on takeoff? I have only about 8
takeoffs so far and havew found that no flaps seems to work as good as 10 or
20 degrees. The Rebel just leaps off with no flaps. What kind of performance
do you get when you use full flaps? I know most Cessnas recommend only 10
degrees at takeoff. I would have thought there would be wy to much drag at
full flaps. Mine is amphibious and I wonder what I will use on
floats.....Thanks....Brian
Also, I have gotten the engine to come down to 430 Fahrenheit, but I have
tried everything I can think of and can't get it to go lower. My spinner is
1/4 inch in front of my cowl and I have tried all kinds of exits and cut the
top of the inlet 1 inch and niothing seems to be working. I was thinking I
should build the other cowl as I have the SPEED COWL. Please tell me what it
costs....Thanks again....Brian

From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel Questions
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:28:29 -0400

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Hi Rick !

Glad you're back in the air again !!!

Wow ! You've got the furthest forward C of G of ANY flying
Rebel I know - sounds like a few pounds in the back might be a good
idea. (I usually carry a tool kit in the baggage area - solves the
weight problem, and the tools come in handy ! ;-) )
(My CofG is at 8.1" aft of datum - these days, MAM suggests 12")
This is one reason several builders have chosen to use the Scott 3200
tailwheel - it adds a few pounds 'way back there. ;-)

You're absolutely right - it IS impossible to load the Rebel
outside of limits without bumping into gross !!! Isn't that a really
NEAT feature !!??? How many airplanes can claim THAT ??!!!

The weight in back will help the flair. FWIW - I <ALWAYS>
take off AND land with FULL flapperons. The Rebel was designed to
use the flapperons to reduce stall speed and improve performance
on BOTH ends of the flight - so I USE them !! Bleed down to
second notch of flapperon after climbing to about 50 ft. or so -
this gives best climb. Play with yours - one notch <might> work
better ...

To use the full position safely, I approach at about 75+ mph,
which gives a very steep approach, cutting through wind gradients
without any risk, then break the glide at about 20 feet, eventually
levelling out about a foot above the ground. I let it float there
while I get to the "right" attitude for touchdown. The speed bleeds
off VERY quickly once level, so get the tail DOWN. Do not try to
approach below 65 mph until you are VERY familiar with the Rebel -
it will develop a very high sink rate, while still having full
control. This often fools people into thinking they are flairing,
when they are really descending over 1,500 feet/min. !!! This usually
results in a bent bird ! :-(

The O-235-L2C really LIKES to rev. - cruise should be at
about 2,450 or more, so it sounds like you need to back off a bit
on the pitch. Your engine is "new", so you don't want to lug it
while breaking in - normall procedure is full throttle until the
rings seat (about 2 hours or so ...) Peak RPM on some L2C's I've
flown was 2,700 ! If you get over 120 hp., you should add another
notch of negative flapperon - it will pull it. With one notch neg.,
you should get about 112-115 mph, and the second notch will give
another 3 mph, and a smoother ride in turbulence ! Always use
negative for cruise - it unloads the wing, making it more gust-
resistant.

Glad you're enjoying the Rebel - welcome to the club !!!
We're the guys with the BIG smiles !!! ;-)

Keep building guys - it REALLY <IS> worth it !!!

......bobp

------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 09:39 AM 6/17/01 +1000, you wrote:

G'day to All from sunny but COLD OZ!

I'm a happy vegemite again.....we're back in the air, with a few more

hours under our wings.

I fitted Wayne's firewall mods and have the new oil cooler in place

:-)

I have a few questions which I'm hoping some of you long time flyers can

help us out with.

We have an 0-235 Lycoming with a standard firewall...IE: NOT shortened.
I also took good notice of Bob and Wayne and we have 28' of UP elevator

on
tap.

The C of G range as advised by MAM is 276 mm to 459 mm aft of the Datum

Line.

Our EMPTY C of G is 197 mm ( nearly 8 " ) aft of the datum line (front

of
the wing / gear leg)

After doing several loading charts...I came to the realisation that it is

virtually impossible to get

the Rebel out of its C of G range...the only real limiting factor here

being the all up MTOW of

1650 Lbs (750 Kgs)........do you guys agree with this ?

With just "little ol' me" , 130 Kgs (just under 290 lbs) and a half a

tank
of gas ..120 Lts / 30 US gallons (we went out one more rib with the tank
and
have 240 litres space !)...I seem to run out

of FLARE ...SUDDENLY.......at the last second !?!....(which is probably

just under 40 knots ..

with no flaps)

Is this normal Rebel stuff ?...........
or should I perhaps stick 5 to 10 lbs of weight down in the tail to move

my
empty C of G

back a bit ?................( I'm thinking this might help the last few

seconds of roundout / flare )

Also, could someone out there offer some advice on the engine side of

things :

As I said before , we have an 0-235 Lycoming ..which I rebuilt myself (

marine engineer )

I fitted new "J" model pistons ( the 9.7:1 variety )...and cylinders

..."cleaned up" the ports a

fair bit (got rid of the dags and misalignments in the castings etc ,

fully
balanced the engine

throughout..propeller extension as well , made up a 2" stainless

crossover
exhaust system

and replaced one magneto with one of Klaus Xavier's LSE crank fired

ignition systems...which

is supposed to give a 4% boost to the power as well........all in all,

I'm
expecting this sucker

to put out 130 H.P. without having done any major mod's.

I'm getting 2200 - 2300 STATIC full power RPM and flat out in straight

and
level flight she

hits 2500ish RPM.....and with no reflex on the flaperons is hitting

around
100 knots .....

(it's rather hard to tell at this point as its been BLOODY WINDY here

every
day since we've

been back in the air)

Do these figures sound about right to you guys...or should I be

repitching
the Warp Drive

to get more RPM ?....


The plane flys beautifully and is an absolute joy.....can't wait to take

up the list of people

on my "waiting list" :-)


Rick & Wendy Harper
541 R....FLYING !
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>G'day to All from sunny but COLD

OZ!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm a happy vegemite

again.....we're

back in the air, with a few more hours under our wings.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>&nbsp; I fitted Wayne's firewall mods and have the

new oil

cooler in place&nbsp; :-)</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>I have a few questions which I'm hoping some of you

long

time flyers can help us out with.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>We have an 0-235 Lycoming with a standard

firewall...IE:

NOT shortened.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>I also took good notice of Bob and Wayne and&nbsp;

we
have

28' of UP elevator on tap.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>The&nbsp; C of G range as advised by MAM is 276 mm

to
459

mm aft of the Datum Line.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Our<STRONG>&nbsp; EMPTY </STRONG>C of G is 197 mm (

nearly

8 " ) aft of the datum line (front of the wing / gear

leg</EM></FONT><FONT

size=2><EM>)</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>After doing several loading charts...I came to the realisation that

it is

virtually impossible to get</DIV>
<DIV>the Rebel out of its C of G range...the only real limiting factor

here

being the all up MTOW&nbsp; of </DIV>
<DIV>1650 Lbs (750 Kgs)........do you guys agree with this ?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>With just "little ol' me" , 130 Kgs (just under 290 lbs) and a half

a
tank

of gas ..120 Lts / 30 US gallons (we went out one more rib with the tank

and

have 240 litres space !)...I seem to run out </DIV>
<DIV>of FLARE ...SUDDENLY.......at the last second !?!....(which is

probably

just under 40 knots ..</DIV>
<DIV>with no flaps)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Is this normal Rebel stuff&nbsp; ?...........</DIV>
<DIV>or should I perhaps stick 5 to 10 lbs of weight down in the tail to

move my

empty C of G&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>back a bit&nbsp; ?................( I'm thinking this&nbsp;might

help the

last few seconds of roundout / flare )</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Also, could someone out there offer some advice on the engine side

of

things :</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As I said before , we have an 0-235 Lycoming ..which I rebuilt

myself (

marine engineer )</DIV>
<DIV>I fitted new "J" model pistons ( the 9.7:1 variety )...and
cylinders&nbsp;..."cleaned up" the ports a </DIV>
<DIV>fair bit (got rid of the dags and misalignments in the castings

etc&nbsp;,

fully balanced the engine</DIV>
<DIV>throughout..propeller extension as well , made up a 2" stainless

crossover

exhaust system</DIV>
<DIV>and replaced one magneto with one of Klaus Xavier's LSE crank fired
ignition systems...which</DIV>
<DIV>is supposed to give a 4% boost to the power as well........all in

all,
I'm

expecting this sucker</DIV>
<DIV>to put out 130 H.P. without having done any major mod's.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm getting 2200 - 2300 STATIC full power RPM and flat out in

straight
and

level flight she</DIV>
<DIV>hits 2500ish RPM.....and with no reflex on the flaperons is hitting

around

100 knots .....</DIV>
<DIV>(it's rather hard to tell at this point as its been BLOODY WINDY

here
every

day since we've </DIV>
<DIV>been back in the air)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Do these figures sound about right to you guys...or should I be

repitching

the Warp Drive</DIV>
<DIV>to get more RPM ?....</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The plane flys beautifully and is&nbsp; an absolute joy.....can't

wait to

take up the list of people</DIV>
<DIV>on my "waiting&nbsp; list"&nbsp; :-)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Rick & Wendy Harper</DIV>
<DIV>541 R....FLYING !</DIV></FONT></EM></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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