tailcone doubler

klehman · Post by **klehman** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Gentlemen

Regarding the occasionally reported cracks and buckling vertically on
the tailcone immediately forward of the rudder post, and the doubler
that the Ontario crowd likes install here:

I have never seen this buckling myself, only the doubler which goes down
one side and wraps around the bottom and up the other side. I have never
really understood how this buckling occurs unless air loads shear the
three tailpost rivets first. I have done Wayne's (now MAM's) mod to the
three rivets and the other tailcone mods.

My question is: do you think that a doubler plate on each side might be
sufficient? ie not wrapped around the bottom. Originally it needed to
wrap around the bottom because of problems with the forward tail spring
bolt but I am no longer worried about that bolt. Two doublers one on
each side, installed one at a time, would be a lot easier to do at this
point. I have decided to do something here and don't mind trying
something new, but I'm not keen to do more than I have to.

thanks for any thoughts
Ken

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Hi Ken !

You can see the beginnings of a crack in the buckling on the
tail of Tobey Riley's Rebel. The creases that become cracks are
caused by high side loads from the tailwheel. Deep snow, mud, and
groundloops can put a tremendous load there, and the twisting
buckles the side skins.

The reason for picking up the front tailspring bolt, and the
rivet line along below the stabilizer, was to complete a triangle
in both dimensions to prevent the creasing, but it might not be
needed now - maybe a couple of gussets will do the trick, as long
as they pick up the tail post and the top of the fuse opening -
as always .... your call !

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 08:37 AM 6/24/01 -0700, you wrote:

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Gentlemen

Regarding the occasionally reported cracks and buckling vertically on
the tailcone immediately forward of the rudder post, and the doubler
that the Ontario crowd likes install here:

I have never seen this buckling myself, only the doubler which goes down
one side and wraps around the bottom and up the other side. I have never
really understood how this buckling occurs unless air loads shear the
three tailpost rivets first. I have done Wayne's (now MAM's) mod to the
three rivets and the other tailcone mods.

My question is: do you think that a doubler plate on each side might be
sufficient? ie not wrapped around the bottom. Originally it needed to
wrap around the bottom because of problems with the forward tail spring
bolt but I am no longer worried about that bolt. Two doublers one on
each side, installed one at a time, would be a lot easier to do at this
point. I have decided to do something here and don't mind trying
something new, but I'm not keen to do more than I have to.

thanks for any thoughts
Ken

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Rick and Cathy Ford · Post by **Rick and Cathy Ford** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Ken
I just finished adding the doublers to my tail section.
I added 2 .032 doublers to the outside of the tailwrap because I figured 1
would probably split right over top of the original one.

I don't think the buckling and cracks appeared from rudder loads as there
would be buckling appearing at the top rudder hinge point.
My guess is that it is from side loading on the tail wheel during taxiing.
I grabbed the tail wheel and tried moving it side to side, and the metal
moved in favour of the crack positions.
If you think about it, trying to turn the plane on a dime without leading
the tailwheel gently into the turn to the breakaway point would be a great
influence on cracking the tail cone.

The 3 rivets in my fin channel did not shear, but I changed that part also.

(A total of 7 hours to do this change in the field)

I have pictures of before and after if anyone would like a copy.

Just my thoughts. . . .

Rick Ford
Rebel436

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: tailcone doubler

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username: rebel password: builder

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Gentlemen

Regarding the occasionally reported cracks and buckling vertically on
the tailcone immediately forward of the rudder post, and the doubler
that the Ontario crowd likes install here:

I have never seen this buckling myself, only the doubler which goes down
one side and wraps around the bottom and up the other side. I have never
really understood how this buckling occurs unless air loads shear the
three tailpost rivets first. I have done Wayne's (now MAM's) mod to the
three rivets and the other tailcone mods.

My question is: do you think that a doubler plate on each side might be
sufficient? ie not wrapped around the bottom. Originally it needed to
wrap around the bottom because of problems with the forward tail spring
bolt but I am no longer worried about that bolt. Two doublers one on
each side, installed one at a time, would be a lot easier to do at this
point. I have decided to do something here and don't mind trying
something new, but I'm not keen to do more than I have to.

thanks for any thoughts
Ken

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Mike Kimball · Post by **Mike Kimball** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Is this a problem with the Super Rebel? Should I consider adding a doubler
since I am building that part now?

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rick and Cathy Ford
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 3:12 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: tailcone doubler

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Ken
I just finished adding the doublers to my tail section.
I added 2 .032 doublers to the outside of the tailwrap because I figured 1
would probably split right over top of the original one.

I don't think the buckling and cracks appeared from rudder loads as there
would be buckling appearing at the top rudder hinge point.
My guess is that it is from side loading on the tail wheel during taxiing.
I grabbed the tail wheel and tried moving it side to side, and the metal
moved in favour of the crack positions.
If you think about it, trying to turn the plane on a dime without leading
the tailwheel gently into the turn to the breakaway point would be a great
influence on cracking the tail cone.

The 3 rivets in my fin channel did not shear, but I changed that part also.

(A total of 7 hours to do this change in the field)

I have pictures of before and after if anyone would like a copy.

Just my thoughts. . . .

Rick Ford
Rebel436

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: tailcone doubler

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The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Gentlemen

Regarding the occasionally reported cracks and buckling vertically on
the tailcone immediately forward of the rudder post, and the doubler
that the Ontario crowd likes install here:

I have never seen this buckling myself, only the doubler which goes down
one side and wraps around the bottom and up the other side. I have never
really understood how this buckling occurs unless air loads shear the
three tailpost rivets first. I have done Wayne's (now MAM's) mod to the
three rivets and the other tailcone mods.

My question is: do you think that a doubler plate on each side might be
sufficient? ie not wrapped around the bottom. Originally it needed to
wrap around the bottom because of problems with the forward tail spring
bolt but I am no longer worried about that bolt. Two doublers one on
each side, installed one at a time, would be a lot easier to do at this
point. I have decided to do something here and don't mind trying
something new, but I'm not keen to do more than I have to.

thanks for any thoughts
Ken

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Hi Mike !

You don't have to worry about this one on the Super - it's
a completely different setup for the tail spring.

......bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 06:14 PM 6/29/01 -0800, you wrote:

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Is this a problem with the Super Rebel? Should I consider adding a doubler
since I am building that part now?

Mike Kimball
SR#044

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rick and Cathy Ford
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 3:12 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: tailcone doubler

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The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
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Ken
I just finished adding the doublers to my tail section.
I added 2 .032 doublers to the outside of the tailwrap because I figured 1
would probably split right over top of the original one.

I don't think the buckling and cracks appeared from rudder loads as there
would be buckling appearing at the top rudder hinge point.
My guess is that it is from side loading on the tail wheel during taxiing.
I grabbed the tail wheel and tried moving it side to side, and the metal
moved in favour of the crack positions.
If you think about it, trying to turn the plane on a dime without leading
the tailwheel gently into the turn to the breakaway point would be a great
influence on cracking the tail cone.

The 3 rivets in my fin channel did not shear, but I changed that part also.

(A total of 7 hours to do this change in the field)

I have pictures of before and after if anyone would like a copy.

Just my thoughts. . . .

Rick Ford
Rebel436

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: tailcone doubler

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Gentlemen

Regarding the occasionally reported cracks and buckling vertically on
the tailcone immediately forward of the rudder post, and the doubler
that the Ontario crowd likes install here:

I have never seen this buckling myself, only the doubler which goes down
one side and wraps around the bottom and up the other side. I have never
really understood how this buckling occurs unless air loads shear the
three tailpost rivets first. I have done Wayne's (now MAM's) mod to the
three rivets and the other tailcone mods.

My question is: do you think that a doubler plate on each side might be
sufficient? ie not wrapped around the bottom. Originally it needed to
wrap around the bottom because of problems with the forward tail spring
bolt but I am no longer worried about that bolt. Two doublers one on
each side, installed one at a time, would be a lot easier to do at this
point. I have decided to do something here and don't mind trying
something new, but I'm not keen to do more than I have to.

thanks for any thoughts
Ken

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Hi Bob,

Do you guys cut holes in the baffling to duct cooling air to your mags?

Bruce G

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