3500 Fuselage mods only

AGT · Post by **AGT** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm

I've been thinking about possibly incorporating some of the fuselage mods for the 3500 to my Super Rebel. I don't want to change to the 3500 gear legs because I don't want to increase the deck angle on the ground. But I wonder if there is any benefit in doing the other mods. It's too late for my wings. They are finished and the wing mods are extensive. Any comments?

Mike Kimball

bob.patterson · Post by **bob.patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: 3500 Fuselage mods only

Hi Mike !

I don't know how true it is, but I've heard rumours here
that the factory will not sell "parts & pieces" of the 3500
upgrade kit - it's all or nothing !! (Which makes sense from their
point of view - how could you tell if you were looking at a 'real'
3500, or a "2500 plus 100 or two <maybe>" ! )

From what I <do> know about the upgrade, the consequences
of adding a few mods and treating a 2500 like a 3500 could be
VERY unpleasant !! ( I'm not suggesting that you have that
intention - but someone out there might think they can do it...)
I know that all you, and several others, want is a sturdier 2500 -
a noble pursuit.

I don't know what all of the fuse mods are, but I would think
that anything that strengthened the gear box area would be "A GOOD
THING"(tm) ;-) You might want to add those extra supports to
the float attach area, too, IF you are considering floats later.
Changing the deck angle might not be such a bad thing .. will
have more thoughts in a month or so ...

The new elevator horn would also be a really good idea....
as would all the tail mods, but it's probably too late for you there,
too... (Although, if you are considering a round engine, <I> would
definitely re-do the tail to 3500 specs. - that huge prop really
batters it !)

One unrelated thought - you might (and I don't even know how
hard/possible this is ...) consider moving the flap handle attach
point about 6 inches or so to the rear, to make the handle easier
to grab, AND to get it out of the way when wrestling with crosswinds....

Sorry - just rambling thoughts, but you did ask for comments - :-)
hope they're of some help...

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 03:06 PM 3/25/01 -0900, you wrote:

I've been thinking about possibly incorporating some of the fuselage mods

for the 3500 to my Super Rebel. I don't want to change to the 3500 gear
legs because I don't want to increase the deck angle on the ground. But I
wonder if there is any benefit in doing the other mods. It's too late for
my wings. They are finished and the wing mods are extensive. Any comments?

Mike Kimball
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've been thinking about possibly incorporating
some of the fuselage mods for the 3500 to my Super Rebel.  I don't

want to

change to the 3500 gear legs because I don't want to increase the deck

angle on

the ground.  But I wonder if there is any benefit in doing the other
mods.  It's too late for my wings.  They are finished and the wing
mods are extensive.  Any comments?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Mike Kimball</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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bear · Post by **bear** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm

Hi Mike,

I have purchased the upgrade but am yet to receive
it. Not sure of all the mods required on the wing
other than a large doubler on the top leading edge
skin not sure how far forward it goes but I
believe in goes back to the main spar. I also
hesitated on the new gear legs but decided to go
for the new legs as I like more prop clearance and
I don't believe it will change the attitude too
much????
Gerry

I've been thinking about possibly incorporating
some of the fuselage =

mods for the 3500 to my Super Rebel. I don't

want to change to the 3500 =

gear legs because I don't want to increase the

deck angle on the ground. =

But I wonder if there is any benefit in doing

the other mods. It's too =

late for my wings. They are finished and the

wing mods are extensive. =

Any comments?

Mike Kimball

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AGT · Post by **AGT** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm

Thanks Bob. No matter what I decide to do, if anything, to strengthen my
SR, it will still have a gross weight of 3000 lbs (yeah, I know there's some
variation depending on whether its on wheels or floats) and I will adhere to
that limitation. Good to remind everyone anyway.

I don't plan to use a round engine, but I am still considering a 350HP V8,
or the 320HP Suburu engine. Neither of those engines are as heavy as the
M14. I also hope to be on floats some day. I also plan to use a 3 bladed
constant speed prop, so prop clearance should be at least a bit mitigated.
What I really want is a 3500 with the radial, but I refuse to go backwards
in construction and delay completion. I wanna fly!

I have already completed an elevator horn mod that had nothing to do with
the 3500 upgrade. It came from MAM as a Service Bulletin. It seems to make
the horns pretty sturdy so I'm not too worried there. It would be pretty
easy to do a similar mod to the rudder, but MAM hasn't said that it is
needed. Maybe I'll just do it.

I read your suggestion of moving the flap handle back a bit and thought that
was a good idea. I was pretty surprised (and dismayed) at the length of the
flap handle. Are the aerodynamic forces on the flap really that great that
the flap handle needs to be that long? I wish it was on the roof for the
same reasons you do. But I don't want to deal with trying to engineer it.
Did I mention, I wanna fly!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: 3500 Fuselage mods only

Hi Mike !

I don't know how true it is, but I've heard rumours here
that the factory will not sell "parts & pieces" of the 3500
upgrade kit - it's all or nothing !! (Which makes sense from their
point of view - how could you tell if you were looking at a 'real'
3500, or a "2500 plus 100 or two <maybe>" ! )

From what I <do> know about the upgrade, the consequences
of adding a few mods and treating a 2500 like a 3500 could be
VERY unpleasant !! ( I'm not suggesting that you have that
intention - but someone out there might think they can do it...)
I know that all you, and several others, want is a sturdier 2500 -
a noble pursuit.

I don't know what all of the fuse mods are, but I would think
that anything that strengthened the gear box area would be "A GOOD
THING"(tm) ;-) You might want to add those extra supports to
the float attach area, too, IF you are considering floats later.
Changing the deck angle might not be such a bad thing .. will
have more thoughts in a month or so ...

The new elevator horn would also be a really good idea....
as would all the tail mods, but it's probably too late for you there,
too... (Although, if you are considering a round engine, <I> would
definitely re-do the tail to 3500 specs. - that huge prop really
batters it !)

One unrelated thought - you might (and I don't even know how
hard/possible this is ...) consider moving the flap handle attach
point about 6 inches or so to the rear, to make the handle easier
to grab, AND to get it out of the way when wrestling with crosswinds....

Sorry - just rambling thoughts, but you did ask for comments - :-)
hope they're of some help...

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 03:06 PM 3/25/01 -0900, you wrote:
I've been thinking about possibly incorporating some of the fuselage mods
for the 3500 to my Super Rebel. I don't want to change to the 3500 gear
legs because I don't want to increase the deck angle on the ground. But I
wonder if there is any benefit in doing the other mods. It's too late for
my wings. They are finished and the wing mods are extensive. Any

comments?

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bob.patterson · Post by **bob.patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: 3500 Fuselage mods only

Good for you, all around, Mike !! You've got a great attitude
about safety !

My comments about having the flap handle up top were really
meant for the Rebel builders. The Super originally had the flap
handle on the roof, but too many people wanted it on the floor...
There was a lot of extra cable, pulleys, springs, etc. up there too,
and the travel was long enough that it was a bit awkward.
(so .... it's probably better on the floor for the Super)

To be honest, you DO need the length for the Super (it's not
THAT much force, but it ain't like the Rebel - and nobody would
expect it to be. It IS a MUCH bigger, heavier, faster airplane !) Having
spent a few formative hours flying a brand-new C-172 in 1958, I find
it acceptable to have the flap handle on the floor when it has to
be that length to give reasonable force requirements. The only
suggestion I can make is that maybe it should be a bit farther back ...

FWIW, I, too would likely go with the 6 cylinder Subaru,
at 300-350 hp., with a Marcotte redrive. I've flown several Subaru
powered Rebels, and find it a delightful engine - smooth, quiet,
and VERY economical ! My inclination would be to leave it virtually
STOCK, with just polishing & porting. This would eliminate any parts
availability problems, and make it reasonably easy to get service.
Crossflow Engineering have done several of these - www.crossflow.com
I'm not sure, but Dave Bangle might have a 6 cylinder package -
he DOES have a FW-FWD bundle for 4 cylinders. (www.subielyc.com).

The elevator horn mod. that you did is all you need. Haven't
seen a problem with the rudder horns, so ... "if it ain't broke ..." ;-)

I wish everybody had the same desire to 'just get flying' !!
We'd see a lot more big smiles out there !!!

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 09:59 AM 3/26/01 -0900, you wrote:

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Thanks Bob. No matter what I decide to do, if anything, to strengthen my
SR, it will still have a gross weight of 3000 lbs (yeah, I know there's some
variation depending on whether its on wheels or floats) and I will adhere to
that limitation. Good to remind everyone anyway.

I don't plan to use a round engine, but I am still considering a 350HP V8,
or the 320HP Suburu engine. Neither of those engines are as heavy as the
M14. I also hope to be on floats some day. I also plan to use a 3 bladed
constant speed prop, so prop clearance should be at least a bit mitigated.
What I really want is a 3500 with the radial, but I refuse to go backwards
in construction and delay completion. I wanna fly!

I have already completed an elevator horn mod that had nothing to do with
the 3500 upgrade. It came from MAM as a Service Bulletin. It seems to make
the horns pretty sturdy so I'm not too worried there. It would be pretty
easy to do a similar mod to the rudder, but MAM hasn't said that it is
needed. Maybe I'll just do it.

I read your suggestion of moving the flap handle back a bit and thought that
was a good idea. I was pretty surprised (and dismayed) at the length of the
flap handle. Are the aerodynamic forces on the flap really that great that
the flap handle needs to be that long? I wish it was on the roof for the
same reasons you do. But I don't want to deal with trying to engineer it.
Did I mention, I wanna fly!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: 3500 Fuselage mods only

Hi Mike !

I don't know how true it is, but I've heard rumours here
that the factory will not sell "parts & pieces" of the 3500
upgrade kit - it's all or nothing !! (Which makes sense from their
point of view - how could you tell if you were looking at a 'real'
3500, or a "2500 plus 100 or two <maybe>" ! )

From what I <do> know about the upgrade, the consequences
of adding a few mods and treating a 2500 like a 3500 could be
VERY unpleasant !! ( I'm not suggesting that you have that
intention - but someone out there might think they can do it...)
I know that all you, and several others, want is a sturdier 2500 -
a noble pursuit.

I don't know what all of the fuse mods are, but I would think
that anything that strengthened the gear box area would be "A GOOD
THING"(tm) ;-) You might want to add those extra supports to
the float attach area, too, IF you are considering floats later.
Changing the deck angle might not be such a bad thing .. will
have more thoughts in a month or so ...

The new elevator horn would also be a really good idea....
as would all the tail mods, but it's probably too late for you there,
too... (Although, if you are considering a round engine, <I> would
definitely re-do the tail to 3500 specs. - that huge prop really
batters it !)

One unrelated thought - you might (and I don't even know how
hard/possible this is ...) consider moving the flap handle attach
point about 6 inches or so to the rear, to make the handle easier
to grab, AND to get it out of the way when wrestling with crosswinds....

Sorry - just rambling thoughts, but you did ask for comments - :-)
hope they're of some help...

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 03:06 PM 3/25/01 -0900, you wrote:
I've been thinking about possibly incorporating some of the fuselage mods
for the 3500 to my Super Rebel. I don't want to change to the 3500 gear
legs because I don't want to increase the deck angle on the ground. But I
wonder if there is any benefit in doing the other mods. It's too late for
my wings. They are finished and the wing mods are extensive. Any
comments?

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