Flying qualities of on O-235 powered Rebel?

[WWhunter]

My son is currently out of the country and is in 'airplane buying mode'. One of the planes he is looking at is a Rebel with an O-235. Yes, the one listed in the classifieds. I have spoke with the owner and understand his needing to sell it but I also want to try and help out my son in getting a decent plane. The plane has an O-235 and the empty weight seems a lttle high to me. 1040 EW if I remember correctly. I am wondering how this plane would perform. I recently sold a 7AC-CONV Champ that was 891EW and it had an O-235. It was a decent performer even on floats. Can't say for sure but I would say the plane had flown a couple hundred pounds over gross with no issues other than extended take-off length. I explained to my son that the Rebel for sale might be similar in performance as the Champ when it was 'heavy'. Is this reasonable? I should have never sold that plane since it was a good old bird, I just wasn't flying it much so let it go to someone that literally flies it almost daily!

My son is wanting something that is fairly STOL capable and has been looking at PA-11's and similar types. He only needs two seats but his spousal unit would like a side by side plane. Naturally since he has listened to me most of his life talk about the Rebel he is thinking it might be a good buy. I am worried it will not have the power he wants. His flying will be mostly in the Black Hills. I doubt he would be able to upgrade the engine anytime soon so buying it and exchanging the engine out to an O-320 is not in the future.

What say all you Rebel afficianadoes?

[irishfield]

I have on memorable flight in mine, back when I had the 100HP x O-235 still in it. Father-in-law and I on our way to go pick up his new airplane in Lucan. We dropped into CYEE.. filled my tanks with fuel and were on our way. I thought to myself on take off that this was taking a little longer than usual... and then noted a less than stellar, but still wonderful compared to a C172, climb out at 400 FPM. Full up... wheel skis on.. two men.. 15 gallons of fuel in gas cans behind us for the new bird being picked up... flight gear.. etc... that flight I penned in later that night as U/G! Somewhere around 1800 lbs.

Keith.. I made a comment in the classifieds on this bird and got no response. I suggest you clarify as to why they haven't done that with the owner and have a good look around this 30K bird before pulling the trigger. It may be a well built gem, or it may not. I can't judge it solely on pictures. The LC2 should be a 118HP engine and if it's strong should work well. Not sure it would make a good float plane, but it would work well on wheels.

Also note it's advertised as only two bay tanks @ 15 gallons each side. Still gives about a 5 hour range though...

[karl hipp]

My advice would be to hold out until he can find a Rebel with an O-320.

I fly in Western Colorado in the mountains.
We are a bit higher than the Black Hills, but we get mechanical up and down drafts just like in the Black Hills.

Not just takeoff distance will suffer with an o-235, but even with good mountain flying techniques and abilities, it is very nice to have power.

I put a Kitfox in the trees a few years ago.

Bad judgement was a factor, but not having power made the difference.

[WWhunter]

Wayne, Thanks for the quick response!
I had seen your question on the ad, particularly about the flapperon gap. The tanks are 'inserts' due to the second builder making a total mess out of the wing tanks. The seller had a couple of aluminum tanks welded up and put into the bay. He stated that he had personally spoke to Daryl Murphy about doing it and how to rebuild/support the areas where the ribs had been removed. Both my son and I are concerend with this modification but I have a damaged Rebel with almost good wings. One of them is dented on the outermost leading edge, a simple fix. As you state, hard to tell much by the pictures. I can see less than stellar area on it but mostly looks cosmetic. The owner (Ed) did state that the first builder had done very nice work, the second owners work was not very good and Ed stated he redid a lot of the bad work when he rebuilt the plane.

Karl,
Appreciate the info. I was concerned with the DA out there and the O-235. I have mentioned to him that he might want to be patient (LOL) and wait for one with an O-320 to come up for sale.

Keith

[Rebel541]

G'day Keith

You didn't specify WHICH variant of the 0-235
The engine is !?!?!
Most are around 115-118hp though

If you stick one of Lonnie Prince's "P-Tip" almost constant speed propellers on it
You WILL get the best overall performance that you can out of it !!!
( plus - if it has a metal prop on it now - you'll be shaving off a fair bit of weight too !)

This is about the quickest (and cheapest - overall) way you can improve the performance !

Call Prince propellers and have a talk to them at least ...

Hope this helps !!!

[Rebel541]

PS

If you can also afford to grab. "P- Mag" ( electronic ignition) from E- Mag in Texas - that will sparkle up the performance also - with a simple "bolt on modification"

I reckon you'd pick up 10% in HP in the process !

Blue skies people !

[skidaddy20000]

Don't want to rain on Biggus' parade, but I'd suggest you hold out for an O-320. Prince props are great, so are electronic ignitions, but they'll only give an incremental improvement. An O-320 will be a quantum leap.

If you were flying at sea level, whole different story, but if I remember correctly the Black Hills start out higher than a lot of us ever go(5000?ft). Marginal performance takes a lot of the fun out of flying. Some of the safety as well.

Good luck,

John
C-FRGV

[Rebel541]

Yep - I agree with John !

Buy one with an 0-320 IN it already .... IF you can afford it !

But if you ARE stuck with the 0-235 ... The Prince prop & electronic will help noticeably !

[irishfield]

Just looked at the Pmags ... almost 4 grand to do both sides, by the time you buy 8 plugs and a mag gear for the left side ... as they don't recommend only running electronic on one side like was first done when they came out. Think I'll go check the timing on my mags to see if I can clean up some "mag drop" and stick to WWII technology. Now maybe if they fail and need rebuild.... :wave:

..and I missed the Density Altitude issue... so unless he was out there playing light 118 HP isn't going to keep him happy.

[WWhunter]

Yes, none of this stuff is cheap. I had sold the Champ due to the fact of not flying it much and the other issue of parts availability of an old plane. SOld it and bought a RANS S7. Well, I have put a Zipper 'Big Bore' kit in it, AKBushwheels, WhirlWind Prop, etc. etc and the costs of just what I mentioned was over $10K!! Just to get a little more power and bush capabilities. Plus I can work on it without having the goverment 'approving' every little friggin part.
I guess we all think quite similarly. I had emailed Zach (my son) in Afganistan with the same suggestions you guys have mentioned. I explained about the costs of upgrades to the engine would be better spent on a different plane and he has decided that he will pass on this plane. He said he was deep in thought about it earlier and had come to the same conclusion, amazing when your kids grow up and get smart. :)
Thanks for all the help guys!!!