Prop' Balancer

[Rick Harper]

G'day Everyone !

Rick & Wendy here in "sunny & bloody hot OZ"......:-(

We've got an 0-235 Lycoming ....boosted up to the "J" model specifications (125 HP)...
also running an L.S.E. electronic ignition, which is supposed to give a 4% boost to
the H.P. rating , cross over exhaust (home made) plus various bits of porting in the
heads etc......We also had EVERYTHING balanced _ crank, rods, ring gear & mount
prop extension, piston assemblies.

I'm expecting 130 HP out of this sucker....without being overly optimistic.

We will be using the W.D. ground adjustable prop we bought ....until we can save up
enough $$$ to by "someone's" inflight adjustable hub mechanism to fit the W.D. blades
(yes I know the plane won't go much faster...but it will improve economy and give better
take of rolls and climb out figures !)

I have seen Mark Landaul's adds for his propeller balancer in various magazines...but
everyone advised me that one wasn't necessary unless you had a wooden prop on a
Lycoming / Continental etc engine...

GUYS......WHAT exactly IS Mr Landaul's balancer ???

Do I NEED one of these gizmo's if I have a FULLY BALANCED engine making around 130 HP ?

Is it just a hunk of balanced metal to add weight to the spinning mass and cut down harmonics ?

or is it some sort of bonded / vulcanised deal like a car balancer ?

Can anyone out there describe one to me ?

Many Thanks

Rick & Wendy Harper
16 Tor rd, Dee Why,
N.S.W. 2099
Australia
rjwh@ozemail.com.au (rjwh@ozemail.com.au)
rjwh56@hotmail.com (rjwh56@hotmail.com)
Ph : 02 9971 7889
Mbl : 0416 041 007
O'seas Ph : 612 9971 7889

[Rebflyer]

Hi Rick,
Curt here, in bloody cold Michigan looking at the frozen lakes and working
hard on my floats.
I think the best person to get harmonic balancer info from is the guy
selling it. I understand he will send you a bunch of material on his
equipment at no cost.
I do know that even with all parts balanced and weighed, you still should
balance the entire mass as one. His part will also eliminate that need.
I also believe you are right in assuming that a big part of the problem his
balancer cures is the impulses set up in high compression engines. The extra
mass is the reason.
I too have a WD sitting in the box, awaiting installation on my 150 hp
o320. TO install or not top install is the question. (the balancer not the
prop)
Good luck, keep at it it's worth it! Curt N97MR

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[Rick and Cathy Ford]

Curt

Just another reminder, I have an O-320 150HP with a 72" 3 blade WD, that has started it's delamination cycle.
I will be taking some pictures of it this weekend and sending them to Mike to post on this site.
I'm not sure if this makes any difference, but I have the Stainless Steel tuned exhaust with no mufflers to create some back pressure.
Maybe an engine Guru can jump in and enlighten us a little on this.

I will be sending my blades back for replacement, and I have talked to Mark Landoll (the official spelling of his name).
He initially started making dampers for race cars, and now does them for aircraft.
He sells them for $375 US + shipping, but is not set up for taking VISA as he is doing this for a hobby only.

You can reach him at
1205 Red Bud Lane
Newcastle, OK
USA
73065

phone 405-392-3847

Sorry to spoil your hopes of possibly not installing one on your aircraft, but I just wanted you to know that it may be necessary.

Rick Ford
436R

----- Original Message -----
From: Rebflyer@aol.com (Rebflyer@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Hi Rick,
Curt here, in bloody cold Michigan looking at the frozen lakes and working
hard on my floats.
I think the best person to get harmonic balancer info from is the guy
selling it. I understand he will send you a bunch of material on his
equipment at no cost.
I do know that even with all parts balanced and weighed, you still should
balance the entire mass as one. His part will also eliminate that need.
I also believe you are right in assuming that a big part of the problem his
balancer cures is the impulses set up in high compression engines. The extra
mass is the reason.
I too have a WD sitting in the box, awaiting installation on my 150 hp
o320. TO install or not top install is the question. (the balancer not the
prop)
Good luck, keep at it it's worth it! Curt N97MR

[apat]

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Hi Rick !

These balancers have urethane inserts around the bolts to
help damp the power pulses from the higher compression engines.
It's the pulses that cause the damage to the props ....

There is also the flywheel effect, which helps because the
props are so light. This might help extend the life of your engine,
as well. Sounds like you've put in a LOT of effort to make it
a GOODIE - hope it works well for you !!

Based on the increasing number of reports of blade problems
with the Warp-Drive props, <I> would think that installing the
dampener while building would be "A GOOD THING"(tm) ! ;-)
I still think the W-D props offer good value, especially because
yopu CAN change the pitch to get the performance you want, AND
they are relatively inexpensive .....

As for variable pitch - wellllll, we're still waiting for
something RELIABLE and CHEAP - could be a loooong wait !! ;-)

.......bobp

----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 09:42 AM 2/24/01 +1100, you wrote:

G'day Everyone !

Rick & Wendy here in "sunny & bloody hot OZ"......:-(

We've got an 0-235 Lycoming ....boosted up to the "J" model specifications

(125 HP)...

also running an L.S.E. electronic ignition, which is supposed to give a 4%

boost to

the H.P. rating , cross over exhaust (home made) plus various bits of

porting in the

heads etc......We also had EVERYTHING balanced _ crank, rods, ring gear &

mount

prop extension, piston assemblies.

I'm expecting 130 HP out of this sucker....without being overly optimistic.

We will be using the W.D. ground adjustable prop we bought ....until we can

save up

enough $$$ to by "someone's" inflight adjustable hub mechanism to fit the

W.D. blades

(yes I know the plane won't go much faster...but it will improve economy

and give better

take of rolls and climb out figures !)

I have seen Mark Landaul's adds for his propeller balancer in various

magazines...but

everyone advised me that one wasn't necessary unless you had a wooden prop on a
Lycoming / Continental etc engine...

GUYS......WHAT exactly IS Mr Landaul's balancer ???

Do I NEED one of these gizmo's if I have a FULLY BALANCED engine making

around 130 HP ?

Is it just a hunk of balanced metal to add weight to the spinning mass and

cut down harmonics ?

or is it some sort of bonded / vulcanised deal like a car balancer ?

Can anyone out there describe one to me ?

Many Thanks

Rick & Wendy Harper
16 Tor rd, Dee Why,
N.S.W. 2099
Australia
rjwh@ozemail.com.au
rjwh56@hotmail.com
Ph : 02 9971 7889
Mbl : 0416 041 007
O'seas Ph : 612 9971 7889

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>G'day Everyone !</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rick & Wendy here in "sunny &
bloody hot&nbsp; OZ"......:-(</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>We've got an 0-235 Lycoming ....boosted up to the "J"
model specifications (125 HP)...</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>also running&nbsp; an L.S.E. electronic ignition,

which is

supposed to give a 4% boost to</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>the H.P. rating , cross over exhaust (home made) plus
various bits of porting in the </EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>heads etc......We also had&nbsp; EVERYTHING balanced _
crank, rods, ring gear & mount</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>prop extension, piston assemblies.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>I'm expecting 130 HP out of this sucker....without being
overly optimistic.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>We will be using the W.D. ground adjustable prop we

bought

....until we can save up</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>enough $$$ to by "someone's" inflight adjustable hub
mechanism to fit the W.D. blades</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>(yes I know the plane won't go much faster...but it will
improve economy and give better</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>take of rolls and climb out figures&nbsp;
!)</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>I have seen Mark Landaul's adds for his propeller

balancer

in&nbsp; various magazines...but </EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>everyone advised me that one wasn't necessary unless you
had a wooden prop on a</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Lycoming / Continental etc engine...</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>GUYS......WHAT exactly IS Mr Landaul's balancer
???</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Do I&nbsp; NEED one of these gizmo's if I have a FULLY
BALANCED engine making around 130 HP ?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Is it just a hunk of balanced metal to add weight to the
spinning mass and cut down harmonics ?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>or is it some sort of bonded / vulcanised deal like a

car

balancer ?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Can anyone out there describe one to me
?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Many Thanks</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>Rick & Wendy Harper<BR>16 Tor rd, Dee Why,

<BR>N.S.W.

2099<BR>Australia<BR><A
href="mailto:rjwh@ozemail.com.au">rjwh@ozemail.com.au</A><BR><A
href="mailto:rjwh56@hotmail.com">rjwh56@hotmail.com</A><BR>Ph : 02 9971 7889
<BR>Mbl : 0416 041 007<BR>O'seas Ph : 612 9971
7889<BR></FONT></EM></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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[rebelair]

Hi Rick

I assume from your email that Mark does not work for Warp Drive & is supplying a vibration isolation dampner for this setup.
Is this correct? Can you tell me what course of action you are taking with your prop? Sounds like I should do the same before I get an unpleasant surprise or simply swap for a metal prop i.e. Sensenich prop.

Best Regards,

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rick and Cathy Ford
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 8:51 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Curt

Just another reminder, I have an O-320 150HP with a 72" 3 blade WD, that has started it's delamination cycle.
I will be taking some pictures of it this weekend and sending them to Mike to post on this site.
I'm not sure if this makes any difference, but I have the Stainless Steel tuned exhaust with no mufflers to create some back pressure.
Maybe an engine Guru can jump in and enlighten us a little on this.

I will be sending my blades back for replacement, and I have talked to Mark Landoll (the official spelling of his name).
He initially started making dampers for race cars, and now does them for aircraft.
He sells them for $375 US + shipping, but is not set up for taking VISA as he is doing this for a hobby only.

You can reach him at
1205 Red Bud Lane
Newcastle, OK
USA
73065

phone 405-392-3847

Sorry to spoil your hopes of possibly not installing one on your aircraft, but I just wanted you to know that it may be necessary.

Rick Ford
436R

----- Original Message -----
From: Rebflyer@aol.com (Rebflyer@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Hi Rick,
Curt here, in bloody cold Michigan looking at the frozen lakes and working
hard on my floats.
I think the best person to get harmonic balancer info from is the guy
selling it. I understand he will send you a bunch of material on his
equipment at no cost.
I do know that even with all parts balanced and weighed, you still should
balance the entire mass as one. His part will also eliminate that need.
I also believe you are right in assuming that a big part of the problem his
balancer cures is the impulses set up in high compression engines. The extra
mass is the reason.
I too have a WD sitting in the box, awaiting installation on my 150 hp
o320. TO install or not top install is the question. (the balancer not the
prop)
Good luck, keep at it it's worth it! Curt N97MR

[Rebflyer]

Thanks Rick,
Looks like that 's the way to go.
Curt N97MR

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[Rick and Cathy Ford]

Hi Brian

I am going ahead and getting the dampener.
I moved the firewall back 3", and my empty c of g is at 10.2" aft, so adding the dampener is not a c of g issue.

Rick

----- Original Message -----
From: rebelair (rebelair@idirect.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Prop' Balancer


Hi Rick

I assume from your email that Mark does not work for Warp Drive & is supplying a vibration isolation dampner for this setup.
Is this correct? Can you tell me what course of action you are taking with your prop? Sounds like I should do the same before I get an unpleasant surprise or simply swap for a metal prop i.e. Sensenich prop.

Best Regards,

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rick and Cathy Ford
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 8:51 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Curt

Just another reminder, I have an O-320 150HP with a 72" 3 blade WD, that has started it's delamination cycle.
I will be taking some pictures of it this weekend and sending them to Mike to post on this site.
I'm not sure if this makes any difference, but I have the Stainless Steel tuned exhaust with no mufflers to create some back pressure.
Maybe an engine Guru can jump in and enlighten us a little on this.

I will be sending my blades back for replacement, and I have talked to Mark Landoll (the official spelling of his name).
He initially started making dampers for race cars, and now does them for aircraft.
He sells them for $375 US + shipping, but is not set up for taking VISA as he is doing this for a hobby only.

You can reach him at
1205 Red Bud Lane
Newcastle, OK
USA
73065

phone 405-392-3847

Sorry to spoil your hopes of possibly not installing one on your aircraft, but I just wanted you to know that it may be necessary.

Rick Ford
436R

----- Original Message -----
From: Rebflyer@aol.com (Rebflyer@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Hi Rick,
Curt here, in bloody cold Michigan looking at the frozen lakes and working
hard on my floats.
I think the best person to get harmonic balancer info from is the guy
selling it. I understand he will send you a bunch of material on his
equipment at no cost.
I do know that even with all parts balanced and weighed, you still should
balance the entire mass as one. His part will also eliminate that need.
I also believe you are right in assuming that a big part of the problem his
balancer cures is the impulses set up in high compression engines. The extra
mass is the reason.
I too have a WD sitting in the box, awaiting installation on my 150 hp
o320. TO install or not top install is the question. (the balancer not the
prop)
Good luck, keep at it it's worth it! Curt N97MR

[rebelair]

Hi Rick

Maybe we should order more for a group discount!

What is the delivery time on this item? If you have not ordered yours maybe we should order together & save on shipping.

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rick and Cathy Ford
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:56 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Hi Brian

I am going ahead and getting the dampener.
I moved the firewall back 3", and my empty c of g is at 10.2" aft, so adding the dampener is not a c of g issue.

Rick

----- Original Message -----
From: rebelair (rebelair@idirect.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Prop' Balancer


Hi Rick

I assume from your email that Mark does not work for Warp Drive & is supplying a vibration isolation dampner for this setup.
Is this correct? Can you tell me what course of action you are taking with your prop? Sounds like I should do the same before I get an unpleasant surprise or simply swap for a metal prop i.e. Sensenich prop.

Best Regards,

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rick and Cathy Ford
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 8:51 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Prop' Balancer


Curt

Just another reminder, I have an O-320 150HP with a 72" 3 blade WD, that has started it's delamination cycle.
I will be taking some pictures of it this weekend and sending them to Mike to post on this site.
I'm not sure if this makes any difference, but I have the Stainless Steel tuned exhaust with no mufflers to create some back pressure.
Maybe an engine Guru can jump in and enlighten us a little on this.

I will be sending my blades back for replacement, and I have talked to Mark Landoll (the official spelling of his name).
He initially started making dampers for race cars, and now does them for aircraft.
He sells them for $375 US + shipping, but is not set up for taking VISA as he is doing this for a hobby only.

You can reach him at
1205 Red Bud Lane
Newcastle, OK
USA
73065

phone 405-392-3847

Sorry to spoil your hopes of possibly not installing one on your aircraft, but I just wanted you to know that it may be necessary.

Rick Ford
436R