Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!

[hibbs]

I just spent the last 12 hours inside my two fuel tanks. I am really
impressed with the brushable PS 890 A-2. Thanks to the folks that
recommended it. For anyone who has not completed your fuel tanks yet, I
think this is the way to go. I won't be able to pressure test for
several days, but I am pretty happy with the application.

Here is what I will do on the next fuel tanks (the SR2500 is the next
step for me):
1. Leave a large access hole in the center bottom of the fuel tank
(http://home.pacifier.com/~hibbs/#end)
2. With the top skin off, PS the entire tank up to the top skin normally
with the standard PS 890 B-2, leaving the access hole open.
3. After the PS is cured, clean, abraid, apply PR-148 adhesion promoter
and Brushable PS-890 A-2 per directions.
4. PS the top skin normally and let it cure.
5. Flip apply PR-148 adhesion promoter and Brushable PS-890 A-2 to the
top skin seams through the access panel.


--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
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[AGT]

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that they
just dilute proseal with M.E.K. I didn't have any trouble with the tank in
my right wing, and I didn't do anything special. I just gooped up
everything with proseal exactly as the manual told me to. Then I used a
soap solution and tested all seams and rivets with the tank slightly
pressurized. I found one leaky rivet, one of the four screws holding the
tank filler in place, and the tank cap itself leaked. Fixing the rivet and
the screw was child's play. The cap leaked around the threads. I'm
probably the only SR builder who actually used the marine fuel caps supplied
with the kit. Guess I'll just call it a vented cap. I'm satisfied. My
soap solution technique easily found the tiny leaks at the rivet and the
screw, so I'm pretty sure the rest of the tank doesn't leak. I only looked
into the brushable proseal in case I discover a problem with the other tank
or even my first one, then I'll try the suggestion someone made about
creating a slight negative pressure in the tank with a shop vac and brushing
the thinned proseal on the outside of the tank to hopefully be pulled in
through the leak by the negative pressure.

Mike Kimball

-----Original Message-----
From: hibbs [mailto:hibbs@pacifier.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 4:40 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


I just spent the last 12 hours inside my two fuel tanks. I am really
impressed with the brushable PS 890 A-2. Thanks to the folks that
recommended it. For anyone who has not completed your fuel tanks yet, I
think this is the way to go. I won't be able to pressure test for
several days, but I am pretty happy with the application.

Here is what I will do on the next fuel tanks (the SR2500 is the next
step for me):
1. Leave a large access hole in the center bottom of the fuel tank
(http://home.pacifier.com/~hibbs/#end)
2. With the top skin off, PS the entire tank up to the top skin normally
with the standard PS 890 B-2, leaving the access hole open.
3. After the PS is cured, clean, abraid, apply PR-148 adhesion promoter
and Brushable PS-890 A-2 per directions.
4. PS the top skin normally and let it cure.
5. Flip apply PR-148 adhesion promoter and Brushable PS-890 A-2 to the
top skin seams through the access panel.


--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
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http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
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[apat]

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To: <MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

I'm not sure I'd want to trust Pro-Seal that had been thinned
with MEK - might change the flex properties over the long term ....

If your caps are the same as the standard ones for the Rebel,
they're SUPPOSED to be vented. I've always run a 1/16" drill through
the vent holes anyway, just to be sure. Is there another vent on
the Super somewhere ??

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 06:05 PM 2/22/01 -0900, you wrote:

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that they
just dilute proseal with M.E.K. I didn't have any trouble with the tank in
my right wing, and I didn't do anything special. I just gooped up
everything with proseal exactly as the manual told me to. Then I used a
soap solution and tested all seams and rivets with the tank slightly
pressurized. I found one leaky rivet, one of the four screws holding the
tank filler in place, and the tank cap itself leaked. Fixing the rivet and
the screw was child's play. The cap leaked around the threads. I'm
probably the only SR builder who actually used the marine fuel caps supplied
with the kit. Guess I'll just call it a vented cap. I'm satisfied. My
soap solution technique easily found the tiny leaks at the rivet and the
screw, so I'm pretty sure the rest of the tank doesn't leak. I only looked
into the brushable proseal in case I discover a problem with the other tank
or even my first one, then I'll try the suggestion someone made about
creating a slight negative pressure in the tank with a shop vac and brushing
the thinned proseal on the outside of the tank to hopefully be pulled in
through the leak by the negative pressure.

Mike Kimball

-----Original Message-----
From: hibbs [mailto:hibbs@pacifier.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 4:40 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


I just spent the last 12 hours inside my two fuel tanks. I am really
impressed with the brushable PS 890 A-2. Thanks to the folks that
recommended it. For anyone who has not completed your fuel tanks yet, I
think this is the way to go. I won't be able to pressure test for
several days, but I am pretty happy with the application.

Here is what I will do on the next fuel tanks (the SR2500 is the next
step for me):
1. Leave a large access hole in the center bottom of the fuel tank
(http://home.pacifier.com/~hibbs/#end)
2. With the top skin off, PS the entire tank up to the top skin normally
with the standard PS 890 B-2, leaving the access hole open.
3. After the PS is cured, clean, abraid, apply PR-148 adhesion promoter
and Brushable PS-890 A-2 per directions.
4. PS the top skin normally and let it cure.
5. Flip apply PR-148 adhesion promoter and Brushable PS-890 A-2 to the
top skin seams through the access panel.


--
Best Regards,

Scott Hibbs
hibbs@pacifier.com
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
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[LisaFly99]

In a message dated 2/22/01 9:03:55 PM Central Standard Time,
agt@mosquitonet.com writes:

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that they
just dilute proseal with M.E.K.

Mike K
If an aircraft mechanic said thats what he does it's PROBABLY ok. But I
thought
M.E.K is what they used to soften Proseal for removal ?
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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[AGT]

I'll have to look at the caps again. I don't remember seeing vent holes in
the cap. I also don't remember finding a leak in the cap itself (i.e.,
where a vent hole would be if there was one). The leak I found was around
the cap threads. I guess that's a form of venting. I haven't run across
mention of venting the tanks in the manual anywhere, but I haven't read the
whole manual yet. I was sort of planning on venting the tanks with a tee at
the top of the sight tube, vented cap or no vented cap.

Mike

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
To: <MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

I'm not sure I'd want to trust Pro-Seal that had been thinned
with MEK - might change the flex properties over the long term ....

If your caps are the same as the standard ones for the Rebel,
they're SUPPOSED to be vented. I've always run a 1/16" drill through
the vent holes anyway, just to be sure. Is there another vent on
the Super somewhere ??

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 06:05 PM 2/22/01 -0900, you wrote:

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that

they

just dilute proseal with M.E.K. I didn't have any trouble with the tank in
my right wing, and I didn't do anything special. I just gooped up
everything with proseal exactly as the manual told me to. Then I used a
soap solution and tested all seams and rivets with the tank slightly
pressurized. I found one leaky rivet, one of the four screws holding the
tank filler in place, and the tank cap itself leaked. Fixing the rivet and
the screw was child's play. The cap leaked around the threads. I'm
probably the only SR builder who actually used the marine fuel caps

supplied

with the kit. Guess I'll just call it a vented cap. I'm satisfied. My
soap solution technique easily found the tiny leaks at the rivet and the
screw, so I'm pretty sure the rest of the tank doesn't leak. I only looked
into the brushable proseal in case I discover a problem with the other tank
or even my first one, then I'll try the suggestion someone made about
creating a slight negative pressure in the tank with a shop vac and

brushing

the thinned proseal on the outside of the tank to hopefully be pulled in
through the leak by the negative pressure.

Mike Kimball

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-----------------------------------------------------------------

[AGT]

You know, when I asked the question maybe the mechanic thought removing proseal was what I wanted to do. If one wants brushable proseal to seal pin-holes, better play it safe and buy the right stuff. I don't think I'll need it though. (Eternal optimist.)

Mike Kimball

-----Original Message-----
From: MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com [mailto:MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of LisaFly99@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 6:48 PM
To: MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


In a message dated 2/22/01 9:03:55 PM Central Standard Time,
agt@mosquitonet.com writes:

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that they
just dilute proseal with M.E.K.

Mike K
If an aircraft mechanic said thats what he does it's PROBABLY ok. But I
thought
M.E.K is what they used to soften Proseal for removal ?
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

[apat]

Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

Not sure about the caps you have - ours are just a spin-on cap
like a car gas cap - tabs on the bottom to grab onto slots on the top of
the filler neck, which sticks up about an inch above the wing. Are yours
different ?

A tee off the top of the guages is a "Good Thing"(tm) - it
might be easier to have it poke up through the wing root fairing on
each side. Just to make it easier to get at, and to avoid fuel dribbling
down into the cockpit ...

I was just wondering if ANYONE can tell us what the latest
Super Rebel manuals say about venting.... ????

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------

At 11:56 AM 2/23/01 -0900, you wrote:

I'll have to look at the caps again. I don't remember seeing vent holes in
the cap. I also don't remember finding a leak in the cap itself (i.e.,
where a vent hole would be if there was one). The leak I found was around
the cap threads. I guess that's a form of venting. I haven't run across
mention of venting the tanks in the manual anywhere, but I haven't read the
whole manual yet. I was sort of planning on venting the tanks with a tee at
the top of the sight tube, vented cap or no vented cap.

Mike

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
To: <MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

I'm not sure I'd want to trust Pro-Seal that had been thinned
with MEK - might change the flex properties over the long term ....

If your caps are the same as the standard ones for the Rebel,
they're SUPPOSED to be vented. I've always run a 1/16" drill through
the vent holes anyway, just to be sure. Is there another vent on
the Super somewhere ??

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 06:05 PM 2/22/01 -0900, you wrote:

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that

they

just dilute proseal with M.E.K. I didn't have any trouble with the tank in
my right wing, and I didn't do anything special. I just gooped up
everything with proseal exactly as the manual told me to. Then I used a
soap solution and tested all seams and rivets with the tank slightly
pressurized. I found one leaky rivet, one of the four screws holding the
tank filler in place, and the tank cap itself leaked. Fixing the rivet and
the screw was child's play. The cap leaked around the threads. I'm
probably the only SR builder who actually used the marine fuel caps

supplied

with the kit. Guess I'll just call it a vented cap. I'm satisfied. My
soap solution technique easily found the tiny leaks at the rivet and the
screw, so I'm pretty sure the rest of the tank doesn't leak. I only looked
into the brushable proseal in case I discover a problem with the other tank
or even my first one, then I'll try the suggestion someone made about
creating a slight negative pressure in the tank with a shop vac and

brushing

the thinned proseal on the outside of the tank to hopefully be pulled in
through the leak by the negative pressure.

Mike Kimball

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-----------------------------------------------------------------

[AGT]

My caps are made for boats (says "Marine" on the package they came in).
They screw in and once they are in they are flush with the recepticle which
only sticks up about a 1/4 inch. The cap has no handle or tab. Instead,
there is a slot which requires something like a quarter to open/close. The
Renegade Spirit I used to own had a similar cap and I just cut a small piece
of aluminum to fit in the slot, then drilled a hole in it so I could hang it
on my key chain.

After reading Wayne's comments on this topic, I am dismayed. He is quite
right. If the cap leaks air going out around the threads, it will also leak
water going in. What am I to do? Is it possible to retrofit a better cap
in the wing I have already finished without having to open up the tank? If
not, I guess I'll build a little house over the cap to keep the water out.
Maybe set up a little garden, white picket fence,... Anything but open up
that fuel tank! Perhaps I can figure out some way to add an o-ring seal.

Mike Kimball

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
APAT@ISTAR.CA
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:29 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

Not sure about the caps you have - ours are just a spin-on cap
like a car gas cap - tabs on the bottom to grab onto slots on the top of
the filler neck, which sticks up about an inch above the wing. Are yours
different ?

A tee off the top of the guages is a "Good Thing"(tm) - it
might be easier to have it poke up through the wing root fairing on
each side. Just to make it easier to get at, and to avoid fuel dribbling
down into the cockpit ...

I was just wondering if ANYONE can tell us what the latest
Super Rebel manuals say about venting.... ????

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------

At 11:56 AM 2/23/01 -0900, you wrote:

I'll have to look at the caps again. I don't remember seeing vent holes in
the cap. I also don't remember finding a leak in the cap itself (i.e.,
where a vent hole would be if there was one). The leak I found was around
the cap threads. I guess that's a form of venting. I haven't run across
mention of venting the tanks in the manual anywhere, but I haven't read the
whole manual yet. I was sort of planning on venting the tanks with a tee

at

the top of the sight tube, vented cap or no vented cap.

Mike

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
To: <MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

I'm not sure I'd want to trust Pro-Seal that had been thinned
with MEK - might change the flex properties over the long term ....

If your caps are the same as the standard ones for the Rebel,
they're SUPPOSED to be vented. I've always run a 1/16" drill through
the vent holes anyway, just to be sure. Is there another vent on
the Super somewhere ??

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 06:05 PM 2/22/01 -0900, you wrote:

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that

they

just dilute proseal with M.E.K. I didn't have any trouble with the tank

in

my right wing, and I didn't do anything special. I just gooped up
everything with proseal exactly as the manual told me to. Then I used a
soap solution and tested all seams and rivets with the tank slightly
pressurized. I found one leaky rivet, one of the four screws holding the
tank filler in place, and the tank cap itself leaked. Fixing the rivet

and

the screw was child's play. The cap leaked around the threads. I'm
probably the only SR builder who actually used the marine fuel caps

supplied

with the kit. Guess I'll just call it a vented cap. I'm satisfied. My
soap solution technique easily found the tiny leaks at the rivet and the
screw, so I'm pretty sure the rest of the tank doesn't leak. I only

looked

into the brushable proseal in case I discover a problem with the other

tank

or even my first one, then I'll try the suggestion someone made about
creating a slight negative pressure in the tank with a shop vac and

brushing

the thinned proseal on the outside of the tank to hopefully be pulled in
through the leak by the negative pressure.

Mike Kimball

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-----------------------------------------------------------------

[apat]

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

Ahhhh ! These ARE the same caps I have on Rebel #001 !! We
use a Twonie to open them ...

There should be a rubber "O" ring around the top of the caps -
and it does seal pretty well. I have had a problem with water getting
in only over the winter, and I do leave the caps a bit loose, because
the rubber ring tends to expand a bit, and dry out, so it can be a
real bear to open the caps. Perhaps there's a lube you could put on
the "O" ring to allow tightening completely.

As I mentioned, ours have had holes drilled beside the cap,
through the rubbery plastic support, into the tank. These are fitted
with inverted "J" tubes for venting (and these ARE very important !)
I guess you'd have to use maybe 1/4" or 5/16" tubing to be sure of
getting enough air flow. (ours are only 1/16" ID - enough for the
912 ...) The alternative would be to run inverted "J" tubes up
from the top of the sight guages, through the wing root fairings
on both sides - might be easier.

I wouldn't worry too much about the water leaking, as long
as the "O" rings are in good shape, AND - you ALWAYS check drain your
tanks before flying anyway ! (Also - fifteen minutes or so after
refuelling. I've had water pumped in from several airport tanks !)

I know of several different aircraft here with flush caps
where the owners put inverted plastic butter containers over the
fuel fillers, and secure them with small bungee cords or just
electrical tape, to keep water out. This can be a problem with
all flush caps, although I never had any water problems with the
flush caps on the Super Rebel. These are a higher quality metal
cap with a quarter-turn locking mechanism to seal against the
"O" ring.

.....bobp

-------------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 10:10 AM 2/24/01 -0900, you wrote:

My caps are made for boats (says "Marine" on the package they came in).
They screw in and once they are in they are flush with the recepticle which
only sticks up about a 1/4 inch. The cap has no handle or tab. Instead,
there is a slot which requires something like a quarter to open/close. The
Renegade Spirit I used to own had a similar cap and I just cut a small piece
of aluminum to fit in the slot, then drilled a hole in it so I could hang it
on my key chain.

After reading Wayne's comments on this topic, I am dismayed. He is quite
right. If the cap leaks air going out around the threads, it will also leak
water going in. What am I to do? Is it possible to retrofit a better cap
in the wing I have already finished without having to open up the tank? If
not, I guess I'll build a little house over the cap to keep the water out.
Maybe set up a little garden, white picket fence,... Anything but open up
that fuel tank! Perhaps I can figure out some way to add an o-ring seal.

Mike Kimball

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
APAT@ISTAR.CA
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:29 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
by dcsol.com (wcSMTP v5.4.449.1)
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

Not sure about the caps you have - ours are just a spin-on cap
like a car gas cap - tabs on the bottom to grab onto slots on the top of
the filler neck, which sticks up about an inch above the wing. Are yours
different ?

A tee off the top of the guages is a "Good Thing"(tm) - it
might be easier to have it poke up through the wing root fairing on
each side. Just to make it easier to get at, and to avoid fuel dribbling
down into the cockpit ...

I was just wondering if ANYONE can tell us what the latest
Super Rebel manuals say about venting.... ????

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------

At 11:56 AM 2/23/01 -0900, you wrote:

I'll have to look at the caps again. I don't remember seeing vent holes in
the cap. I also don't remember finding a leak in the cap itself (i.e.,
where a vent hole would be if there was one). The leak I found was around
the cap threads. I guess that's a form of venting. I haven't run across
mention of venting the tanks in the manual anywhere, but I haven't read the
whole manual yet. I was sort of planning on venting the tanks with a tee

at

the top of the sight tube, vented cap or no vented cap.

Mike

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
To: <MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!


Hi Mike !

I'm not sure I'd want to trust Pro-Seal that had been thinned
with MEK - might change the flex properties over the long term ....

If your caps are the same as the standard ones for the Rebel,
they're SUPPOSED to be vented. I've always run a 1/16" drill through
the vent holes anyway, just to be sure. Is there another vent on
the Super somewhere ??

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 06:05 PM 2/22/01 -0900, you wrote:

When I asked a mechanic at a local FBO (who is also active in the local
chapter of the EAA) about brushable proseal, the mechanics told me that

they

just dilute proseal with M.E.K. I didn't have any trouble with the tank

in

my right wing, and I didn't do anything special. I just gooped up
everything with proseal exactly as the manual told me to. Then I used a
soap solution and tested all seams and rivets with the tank slightly
pressurized. I found one leaky rivet, one of the four screws holding the
tank filler in place, and the tank cap itself leaked. Fixing the rivet

and

the screw was child's play. The cap leaked around the threads. I'm
probably the only SR builder who actually used the marine fuel caps

supplied

with the kit. Guess I'll just call it a vented cap. I'm satisfied. My
soap solution technique easily found the tiny leaks at the rivet and the
screw, so I'm pretty sure the rest of the tank doesn't leak. I only

looked

into the brushable proseal in case I discover a problem with the other

tank

or even my first one, then I'll try the suggestion someone made about
creating a slight negative pressure in the tank with a shop vac and

brushing

the thinned proseal on the outside of the tank to hopefully be pulled in
through the leak by the negative pressure.

Mike Kimball

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