[rebel-builders] I'm airworthy! - First Flight

David Jackson · Post by **David Jackson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:41 pm

Jesse,
You should be able to find lots of good information on first flights. You should ask yourself some questions first:
Am I current on the aircraft type? Have I had the neccesary training for this flight? Do I have the experience required? Am I the best person to conduct the first flight? Would I be better off to hire a qualified pilot to conduct the first flights? Am I letting emotions or logic decide who should make the first flight?

From: jessejenks@hotmail.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy!
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 06:39:05 -0800

I know Wayne, I was impressed by your accuracy. Having a running engine is not part of the deal down here. It just has to look like it will run I guess. My engine builder is going to come start it today hopefully. I still haven't put gas in it. I'm terrified that my tanks will leak and I'll have to pull the wings again.
I know everyone asks this, but I couldn't come up with much on a quick search, so for the sake of making me feel good can you give me a quick run down on how not to get myself in trouble and bend my new airplane on the first flight?
Thanks.
Jesse

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy!
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:06:55 -0500

I'll also say I was damn close without even seeing what you'd built.. "I'll
hazard a guess that yours is going to come out at ~ 9" to 9.7" aft of datum
on wheels."

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: "Builders list" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 10:33 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy!

Got my surferticket today. Still need to run the engine and finish up a
few things but should be flying soon. My weight is 957 with empty CG at
9.8" aft of the wheels. Re the ongoing discussion I guess I have to
measure the distance from door post center line to LE and subtract that
from 12 to get the forward limit, and similar for the aft limit. What is
the aft limit in MAC?

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:41 pm

Jesse

If it is not a brand new engine, ground run it enough that you won't be
overly concerned about temperatures or leaks.

There have been several posts over the years recommending half fuel, and
some tied down baggage such as a 40kg (90 lb.) bag of salt. For the tail
dragger I ask new guys in my plane to only use one notch of flaperon,
keep a wee bit of power on to touchdown, and try to hold full up
elevator once the tail is down. Nobody with tailwheel time seems to have
trouble with the takeoff. It is more exciting with non tail wheel
pilots... 20 minutes is a reasonable first flight. I did mine all above
the airport within gliding distance. (It doesn't glide very far) Check
out slow flight handling with whatever flap you are going to use before
you land. Don't hesitate to go around as you are feeling out both the
airplane and yourself for the first few hours. My first landing was a
go-around ;)

I would follow the above if I was doing anybody's first flight in a
Rebel although I might wave the baggage if the c of g was far enough
aft. It probably really is best to get an experienced tail dragger pilot
for the first flight unless you have managed an hour or so of time with
someone in another Rebel. If you are still current on tailwheels I'd not
expect you to have any handling surprises though.

From memory I always thought the 7.7 to 19.7 inches was theoretical MAC
limits mentioned in the first edition of the manual.

Whereas after gaining some flight experience, the 10.85 to 18.10 inches
was the recommended aft of center of door post envelope in a later
bulletin from MAM. My assumption being that the center of the door post
is approximately the center of the forward wing attach point and about
1.15" aft of the leading edge.

Ken

On 2/14/2011 10:41 AM, David Jackson wrote:

Jesse, You should be able to find lots of good information on first
flights. You should ask yourself some questions first: Am I current
on the aircraft type? Have I had the neccesary training for this
flight? Do I have the experience required? Am I the best person to
conduct the first flight? Would I be better off to hire a qualified
pilot to conduct the first flights? Am I letting emotions or logic
decide who should make the first flight?

From: jessejenks@hotmail.com To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com Subject:
RE: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy! Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 06:39:05
-0800

I know Wayne, I was impressed by your accuracy. Having a running
engine is not part of the deal down here. It just has to look like
it will run I guess. My engine builder is going to come start it
today hopefully. I still haven't put gas in it. I'm terrified that
my tanks will leak and I'll have to pull the wings again. I know
everyone asks this, but I couldn't come up with much on a quick
search, so for the sake of making me feel good can you give me a
quick run down on how not to get myself in trouble and bend my new
airplane on the first flight? Thanks. Jesse

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com Subject:
Re: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy! Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011
01:06:55 -0500

I'll also say I was damn close without even seeing what you'd
built.. "I'll hazard a guess that yours is going to come out at ~
9" to 9.7" aft of datum on wheels."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jesse
Jenks"<jessejenks@hotmail.com> To: "Builders
list"<rebel-builders@dcsol.com> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011
10:33 PM Subject: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy!

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Jesse Jenks · Post by **Jesse Jenks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:41 pm

Thanks guys,
Ken, would you say wheel landing or 3 point for the first few, and one notch for takeoff and landing? BTW I fly a DC-3 for a living, not saying I won't screw up, but I do feel qualified to make the first flight. That takes me back to my first question though, because all landings in the DC-3 are wheel landings so at this point that is what I am more comfortable with.
First engine start today went great, except no tach reading on the Dynon :( and small oil leak from somewhere. It was almost more thrilling putting fuel in the tanks for the first time and hearing it hitting the bottom of the tank. No leaks yet but only put 10 gal each side and I have 30 gal tanks so it may be a while before I get to test all my proseal.

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:17:29 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy! - First Flight

Jesse

If it is not a brand new engine, ground run it enough that you won't be
overly concerned about temperatures or leaks.

There have been several posts over the years recommending half fuel, and
some tied down baggage such as a 40kg (90 lb.) bag of salt. For the tail
dragger I ask new guys in my plane to only use one notch of flaperon,
keep a wee bit of power on to touchdown, and try to hold full up
elevator once the tail is down. Nobody with tailwheel time seems to have
trouble with the takeoff. It is more exciting with non tail wheel
pilots... 20 minutes is a reasonable first flight. I did mine all above
the airport within gliding distance. (It doesn't glide very far) Check
out slow flight handling with whatever flap you are going to use before
you land. Don't hesitate to go around as you are feeling out both the
airplane and yourself for the first few hours. My first landing was a
go-around ;)

I would follow the above if I was doing anybody's first flight in a
Rebel although I might wave the baggage if the c of g was far enough
aft. It probably really is best to get an experienced tail dragger pilot
for the first flight unless you have managed an hour or so of time with
someone in another Rebel. If you are still current on tailwheels I'd not
expect you to have any handling surprises though.

From memory I always thought the 7.7 to 19.7 inches was theoretical MAC
limits mentioned in the first edition of the manual.

Whereas after gaining some flight experience, the 10.85 to 18.10 inches
was the recommended aft of center of door post envelope in a later
bulletin from MAM. My assumption being that the center of the door post
is approximately the center of the forward wing attach point and about
1.15" aft of the leading edge.

Ken

On 2/14/2011 10:41 AM, David Jackson wrote:
Jesse, You should be able to find lots of good information on first
flights. You should ask yourself some questions first: Am I current
on the aircraft type? Have I had the neccesary training for this
flight? Do I have the experience required? Am I the best person to
conduct the first flight? Would I be better off to hire a qualified
pilot to conduct the first flights? Am I letting emotions or logic
decide who should make the first flight?

From: jessejenks@hotmail.com To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com Subject:
RE: [rebel-builders] I'm airworthy! Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 06:39:05
-0800

I know Wayne, I was impressed by your accuracy. Having a running
engine is not part of the deal down here. It just has to look like
it will run I guess. My engine builder is going to come start it
today hopefully. I still haven't put gas in it. I'm terrified that
my tanks will leak and I'll have to pull the wings again. I know
everyone asks this, but I couldn't come up with much on a quick
search, so for the sake of making me feel good can you give me a
quick run down on how not to get myself in trouble and bend my new
airplane on the first flight? Thanks. Jesse