Engines for SR on Amphibs.

[Al & Deb Paxhia]

Don,
I plan amphibs after a year or so on wheels. I have an "Lyc-Con" built
IO540-C4-B5, special pistons, gear coatings, flow balanced, and a little
nitrous oxide for the mountain lakes and places like the west side of
Vancouver Island. The engine has 8+ hours on the test stand and exceeds
my expectations for power. Fuel burn also exceeds my expectations but for
the way I plan to use the SR fuel is the least of my concerns. I plan on
flying off rough water and getting on step quickly is important to me as to
not destroy the airframe from the pounding. My float experience tells me you
can't have too much HP. Where and how you plan on using the airplane should
help decide your engine requirements.Where are you planning to fly? How
float experienced are you? How heavy do you plan to fly? What type of
weather? Here in the Pacific Northwest marginal VFR is the norm for part of
most summer days. I rejected the M14 for two reasons, first weight and
second my lack of my design/construction skill to adapt this engine to the
SR.
Al Paxhia SR26
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Boardman <DBoardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: Engines for SR on Amphibs.

I have been coming home from building and reading the discussion on SR
engine choice with interest. The discussion to date has focused mostly on
power plants for the SR on wheels.

I would like to hear what builders who are planing on flying floats and
especially amphibs are considering for an engine.

I have a Zenair 701 with a 912. Great land performance. Only acceptable,
when loaded, amphib performance. It is certainly an understatement to say
that engine selection is vital to getting good performance out of an
aircraft on amphibs.

Presently my partner and myself see two main possibilities.
A Lycoming IO-540 in the 300 HP range or the M-14P with it's 360 HP
(assuming that Daryl approves and comes up with an installation for the
M14P)

I would like to hear what other SR amphib builders are thinking.

Don Boardman
Rome, NY
SR 130

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[Don Boardman]

I have been coming home from building and reading the discussion on SR
engine choice with interest. The discussion to date has focused mostly on
power plants for the SR on wheels.

I would like to hear what builders who are planing on flying floats and
especially amphibs are considering for an engine.

I have a Zenair 701 with a 912. Great land performance. Only acceptable,
when loaded, amphib performance. It is certainly an understatement to say
that engine selection is vital to getting good performance out of an
aircraft on amphibs.

Presently my partner and myself see two main possibilities.
A Lycoming IO-540 in the 300 HP range or the M-14P with it's 360 HP
(assuming that Daryl approves and comes up with an installation for the
M14P)

I would like to hear what other SR amphib builders are thinking.

Don Boardman
Rome, NY
SR 130

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[Don Boardman]

Al,
Thanks for your response.
I hope you can make time to answer the questions below.
I understand about being busy so no hurry.

My Lycoming information indicates that the IO-540-C4B5 puts out
250 HP @ 2575 RPM and has a C.R. of 8.5:1.

Why that model of 540 ?

What do the modifications: special pistons, gear coatings, and flow
balanced, do for the engine?

Who did your engine?

What HP do you expect?

Fuel Burn?

What's up with the nitrous oxide?

What is the weight of your 540 installation?

Did you come up with a weight estimate for the M-14P?

Why not an IO-model putting out 300 HP @ 2700 and CR 8.7:1?

--------------
I don't think I would consider the M-14P either if Daryl does not come up
with a firewall forward package.

Where are you planning to fly?

I live on a lake in central NY,in the foothills of the Adirondack Mtns.,
they are not very high, several peaks between 4-5K. There is water
everywhere. Where there is not water there are trees. I also plan to use
Canada as a play ground it's my northern neighbor. And let's not leave out
the 4 month trips to Alaska once retired after 2003.

float experience?

SES 1989 with 28hrs total power (used glider PIC hrs to get SEL).
Finished Zenair 701 (912 powered) in '91 wheels. and amphibs '96.
Seven trips to Oshkosh, three with floats. Total float time 155 hrs ( just a
rookie) out of 1320 Total hrs. Also drive gliders and a C-177RG.

How heavy do you plan to fly?

Probably 60% two up plus gear. 40% four plus gear

What type of weather?

VFR with skud a real possibility.

I just realized that the questions you asked may have been posed for me to
self evaluate my needs. Oh well.

Hey any chance you know a couple of women who live on Vancouver Island. They
flew a Bushmaster to Oshkosh in '98. The owners name is Brenda Matas and her
friend is Anne ( can't remember last name)

Any way, thanks for any insight you can give the rookie,
Don SR 130

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Don !

Don't remember if I gave you this already, but I'll post it
for the rest of the list now ....

A good source of engines custom built for homebuilders is:

Aviation Technical Consultants (ATC),
John Donaldson, Pres.,
6406 Bluebird St.,
Orillia, Ontario L3V 6H6
Canada Tel.: (705) 325-5515

John was shop foreman at Canadian Aero Engines until they closed,
and set up his own business. He has done over 30 engines for Rebels,
some of the last being 180 hp. O-320's (I <did> say CUSTOM !!)
=== == =======
He has also done major improvements on the Continental and
Lycoming 6's - things like extra oil channels, splash oiling for the
backs of pistons, etc. ... He has his own dyno on site, to evaluate
results. For those who really want leading edge, John can now offer
ceramic coating for the inside of exhaust systems (gets the heat
out of the cowling, and greatly improves pipe life) and the tops
of pistons (greatly reduces worry about damage from excessive leaning).
Some of this stuff is still experimental - but that's why we're
homebuilding !! He'll do as much or as little as you want ...

John is a licenced AME, and the shop is MOT certified, so
many local folks send their certified engines there, as well.

You can supply your own core, OR let John go out & try to
find one for you at a good price. Whichever way you go, be sure
to allow some lead time, as good work takes time, and he's pretty
busy already !!

One GREAT advantage for you folks is the strength of the
US dollar - in effect, you get a 50 % discount on Canadian engines !!

....bobp

----------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 08:45 PM 10/12/00 -0400, you wrote:

Al,
Thanks for your response.
I hope you can make time to answer the questions below.
I understand about being busy so no hurry.

My Lycoming information indicates that the IO-540-C4B5 puts out
250 HP @ 2575 RPM and has a C.R. of 8.5:1.

Why that model of 540 ?

What do the modifications: special pistons, gear coatings, and flow
balanced, do for the engine?

Who did your engine?

What HP do you expect?

Fuel Burn?

What's up with the nitrous oxide?

What is the weight of your 540 installation?

Did you come up with a weight estimate for the M-14P?

Why not an IO-model putting out 300 HP @ 2700 and CR 8.7:1?

--------------
I don't think I would consider the M-14P either if Daryl does not come up
with a firewall forward package.

Where are you planning to fly?

I live on a lake in central NY,in the foothills of the Adirondack Mtns.,
they are not very high, several peaks between 4-5K. There is water
everywhere. Where there is not water there are trees. I also plan to use
Canada as a play ground it's my northern neighbor. And let's not leave out
the 4 month trips to Alaska once retired after 2003.

float experience?

SES 1989 with 28hrs total power (used glider PIC hrs to get SEL).
Finished Zenair 701 (912 powered) in '91 wheels. and amphibs '96.
Seven trips to Oshkosh, three with floats. Total float time 155 hrs ( just a
rookie) out of 1320 Total hrs. Also drive gliders and a C-177RG.

How heavy do you plan to fly?

Probably 60% two up plus gear. 40% four plus gear

What type of weather?

VFR with skud a real possibility.

I just realized that the questions you asked may have been posed for me to
self evaluate my needs. Oh well.

Hey any chance you know a couple of women who live on Vancouver Island. They
flew a Bushmaster to Oshkosh in '98. The owners name is Brenda Matas and her
friend is Anne ( can't remember last name)

Any way, thanks for any insight you can give the rookie,
Don SR 130

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[Al & Deb Paxhia]

Don,
When it comes to floats we are all rookies. It sounds to me like you are
serious about floats take all the HP you can get.
My engine was built by
LYCON Aircraft Engines
8231 West Doe St.
Visalia, CA 93291
559-651-1070
To my knowledge there is one other SR using the same engine but without the
nitrous. LYCON does certificated overhauls and custom experimental engines
for folks like us. I have talked to 6 owners of LYCON's experimental engines
and they all speak highly of their engines. The only complaint I heard was,
flow time from go ahead to delivery, they are busy folks and need lots of
time. In my case over a year. This was not a problem for me because I'm
still building and only now am I ready to hang the engine. LYCON did loan
me a engine core to use as a model for locating stuff on the firewall, this
to me was better than having a finished engine siting around for a year.

My dyno tests recorded 320 HP, 28 GPH, 2700 RPM without nitrous. I selected
this engine because it is lighter that some of the other IO540's but more
importantly the people that I talked to are using this model and their
engines show no problems. The performance boost from NO2 was also tested
and further increased the output. Under heat and pressure NO2 breaks down to
1 part nitrogen and 2 parts oxygen and provides the same effect as turbo
charging. If anyone is thinking of using this stuff talk to the people that
are using it successfully in airplanes. Study the subject well, follow the
rules and be very conservative with the application. I am happy to talk to
anyone on this subject off line (206-567-4346). "Improper installation or
use of a nitrous oxide system will most definitely cause the intake system
to leave the engine or cause you to pour piston pieces from the cylinders."
The special coatings are ceramic on the top of the pistons to reduce heat
buildup, "slick stuff" on the valve
springs and oil pump gears to reduce friction. The pistons are custom forged
for LYCON, machined to the compression ratio of your choice and come from
the auto engine racing world. I'm running 9.5:1, with new cerminil
cylinders, cerminil because of low usage(150hrs/yr) better oil film
retention and better corrosion resistance (land of liquid sunshine) the
cylinder porting and flow balance gives an overall power increase by
equalizing the air fuel charge to each cylinder. The exhaust is from Sky
Dynamics company and is tuned to extract exhaust gases. Ignition system is
one Electroair electronic ignition and one mag for backup. B&C light weight
starter and alternator. The weight of the engine? As soon as I find a
scale, I'll let you know.
I talked to one of the M14 builders about a year ago and his level of
design and construction experience was far above the first time builder like
me. I decided to not wait for Murphy. Looks like I missed out on the Beaver
look-a-like contest. Why not the 300HP, IO540's? I did not want the turbo
charger. No good reason, just don't understand them and they run all the
time at high heat and high rpm.
Al Paxhia, SR26

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Boardman <DBoardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Engines for SR on Amphibs.

Al,
Thanks for your response.
I hope you can make time to answer the questions below.
I understand about being busy so no hurry.

My Lycoming information indicates that the IO-540-C4B5 puts out
250 HP @ 2575 RPM and has a C.R. of 8.5:1.

Why that model of 540 ?

What do the modifications: special pistons, gear coatings, and flow
balanced, do for the engine?

Who did your engine?

What HP do you expect?

Fuel Burn?

What's up with the nitrous oxide?

What is the weight of your 540 installation?

Did you come up with a weight estimate for the M-14P?

Why not an IO-model putting out 300 HP @ 2700 and CR 8.7:1?

--------------
I don't think I would consider the M-14P either if Daryl does not come up
with a firewall forward package.

Where are you planning to fly?

I live on a lake in central NY,in the foothills of the Adirondack Mtns.,
they are not very high, several peaks between 4-5K. There is water
everywhere. Where there is not water there are trees. I also plan to use
Canada as a play ground it's my northern neighbor. And let's not leave out
the 4 month trips to Alaska once retired after 2003.

float experience?

SES 1989 with 28hrs total power (used glider PIC hrs to get SEL).
Finished Zenair 701 (912 powered) in '91 wheels. and amphibs '96.
Seven trips to Oshkosh, three with floats. Total float time 155 hrs ( just

a

rookie) out of 1320 Total hrs. Also drive gliders and a C-177RG.

How heavy do you plan to fly?

Probably 60% two up plus gear. 40% four plus gear

What type of weather?

VFR with skud a real possibility.

I just realized that the questions you asked may have been posed for me to
self evaluate my needs. Oh well.

Hey any chance you know a couple of women who live on Vancouver Island.

They

flew a Bushmaster to Oshkosh in '98. The owners name is Brenda Matas and

her

friend is Anne ( can't remember last name)

Any way, thanks for any insight you can give the rookie,
Don SR 130

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