[rebel-builders] Props

[Drew Dalgleish]

At 12:29 PM 8/18/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi everybody, summer greetings!

I've been running a McCauley 74X56 (now re-pitched 54") that was on my

0-320-A2B on the Champion GCBC it came from.

Built the engine up to 160+hp; the prop worked great at 56" on wheels and

then I went on MAM amphibs, after trying a friends' 74X52 I had the 56"
re-pitched to 54". Works quite well.

Off the water in fairly quick times at gross+ and cruises at 80kts IAS at

2400rpm.

Max static rpm is 2400 and max level flight rpm is 2550.

Not getting to the 2700rpm where all the horsepower lives. Possibly a bit

over-propped.

So, to complicate the equation I bought an 80X40 Borer (McCauley) off a

150hp Champion GCBC.

I intend to install this prop as-is and verify performance but I'm

expecting to need to re-pitch to about 43". Oh', as well, there was a 2"
McCauley spacer came with the prop if anybody needs one let me know.

Has anyone else tried a Borer? Results? Numbers? Advice? I know that

"rule-of-thumb" is: 1" of pitch = 100rpm

As an aside to this I heard today from Carm Titus that his cousin Mike

Titus (longtime Leavens employee who has helped many of us Rebel types with
our engines) was working on a plane at Brampton in recent weeks and
momentarily distracted by a bystander got hit in the head by a prop blade.
Carm said Mike is going to lose one eye. You can't be too careful.

Thanks and best regards to everyone, Angus

Hi Angus The little I know about borer props is you'll get off the water
faster and clomb like crazy but probably give up a bit in cruise. Because
the prop's so much longer I don't think the 1"=100rpm rule aplies. I say
sell the borer and buy a prince so you can cruise at 95knots :)
Drew



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[Angus McKenzie]

Hi Drew,
Please tell me more about your Prince prop.
Weight, pitch, rpm's, performance, $??

I was talking to Clair about replacing my float-brace wires with his
Scottish made-rolled thread, aerodynamic flying rods and he is putting a
price together for me. Will let you know.

We've been up around MacKeller; and into Manitouabin, Long, Axe and
Snakeskin lakes this year, is that near where you are?
Thanks........Angus






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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 08:56 AM 8/21/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Drew,
Please tell me more about your Prince prop.
Weight, pitch, rpm's, performance, $??

I was talking to Clair about replacing my float-brace wires with his
Scottish made-rolled thread, aerodynamic flying rods and he is putting a
price together for me. Will let you know.

We've been up around MacKeller; and into Manitouabin, Long, Axe and
Snakeskin lakes this year, is that near where you are?
Thanks........Angus

Hi Angus I'll have to check my log book for the prop size. I'm not sure of
the weight but it's less than 10lbs. It seems to be well matched to my
engine it'll run up around 2600rpm for climb out and up just past red line
in level flight. 2400rpm gives 105mph indicated 2500 gets me close to 115.
I'm pretty sure my airspeed indicator is a bit optomistic though. I don't
often fly at gross but with me full fuel and 50lbs baggage I climb at
around 1000fpm at 80mph. It'll climb a bit faster at 70 but I can't see
where I'm going then. Real world performance is it's 172 miles to the
cottage from Centralia by GPS and I can get there in about 1.8hrs hobbs
time that includes taxiing etc. We're on little McKellar lake that's the
next one north of Manitouwabing so you were right in the neighbourhood.

I don't know much about flying rods I'm sure more aerodynamic is better but
would they make a noticable difference. Also is there any spring in the
wires we have now and if so is that a good or bad thing?
Drew



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[Walter Klatt]

Drew, what is your top speed straight and level, WOT, and at what rpm? Do
you have 150 or 160 hp?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 6:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Props

At 08:56 AM 8/21/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Drew,
Please tell me more about your Prince prop.
Weight, pitch, rpm's, performance, $??

I was talking to Clair about replacing my float-brace wires with his
Scottish made-rolled thread, aerodynamic flying rods and he is putting a
price together for me. Will let you know.

We've been up around MacKeller; and into Manitouabin, Long, Axe and
Snakeskin lakes this year, is that near where you are?
Thanks........Angus

Hi Angus I'll have to check my log book for the prop size. I'm not sure of
the weight but it's less than 10lbs. It seems to be well matched to my
engine it'll run up around 2600rpm for climb out and up just past red line
in level flight. 2400rpm gives 105mph indicated 2500 gets me close to 115.
I'm pretty sure my airspeed indicator is a bit optomistic though. I don't
often fly at gross but with me full fuel and 50lbs baggage I climb at
around 1000fpm at 80mph. It'll climb a bit faster at 70 but I can't see
where I'm going then. Real world performance is it's 172 miles to the
cottage from Centralia by GPS and I can get there in about 1.8hrs hobbs
time that includes taxiing etc. We're on little McKellar lake that's the
next one north of Manitouwabing so you were right in the neighbourhood.

I don't know much about flying rods I'm sure more aerodynamic is better but
would they make a noticable difference. Also is there any spring in the
wires we have now and if so is that a good or bad thing?
Drew



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[Walter Klatt]

Sure would like to see someone try a Borer. I had a chance a couple years
ago, when someone offered to lend me one. But with my cowl and need for a
spacer, it wouldn't fit. I realize the cruise speed would be less, but am
really curious to see how fast it can come off the water, and what the climb
rate would be.

My prediction for 150 hp is less than 10 seconds (in near no wind
conditions) and 1500 fpm. If not, then it is not worth it.

The only way I get less than 10 seconds with mine, is with a good head wind.
Top climb for me solo, is 1100 fpm. That is with the Sensenich 74 X 54 and
150 hp.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Angus
McKenzie
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 9:29 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Props

Hi everybody, summer greetings!

I've been running a McCauley 74X56 (now re-pitched 54") that was on my
0-320-A2B on the Champion GCBC it came from.

Built the engine up to 160+hp; the prop worked great at 56" on wheels and
then I went on MAM amphibs, after trying a friends' 74X52 I had the 56"
re-pitched to 54". Works quite well.

Off the water in fairly quick times at gross+ and cruises at 80kts IAS at
2400rpm.

Max static rpm is 2400 and max level flight rpm is 2550.

Not getting to the 2700rpm where all the horsepower lives. Possibly a bit
over-propped.

So, to complicate the equation I bought an 80X40 Borer (McCauley) off a
150hp Champion GCBC.
I intend to install this prop as-is and verify performance but I'm expecting
to need to re-pitch to about 43". Oh', as well, there was a 2" McCauley
spacer came with the prop if anybody needs one let me know.

Has anyone else tried a Borer? Results? Numbers? Advice? I know that
"rule-of-thumb" is: 1" of pitch = 100rpm

As an aside to this I heard today from Carm Titus that his cousin Mike Titus
(longtime Leavens employee who has helped many of us Rebel types with our
engines) was working on a plane at Brampton in recent weeks and momentarily
distracted by a bystander got hit in the head by a prop blade. Carm said
Mike is going to lose one eye. You can't be too careful.

Thanks and best regards to everyone, Angus



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[Angus McKenzie]

Thanks for the info Drew,
Did you purchase the prop through Murphy?
All your numbers sound real good to me, my plane is a bit heavy, I always
fill the fuel tank and tend to load too much stuff.
As an aside; I have not moved my trim for almost 2 years it is aligned at
neutral with the trailing edge, in flight I can tell when the dog is moving
around behind me but it doesn't change the angle of attack or stick
pressure.
The flying rods are intended to be a more certain structural member than the
wires. Not concerned about aerodynamics as much as worried about stretching
the thimbles or breaking on rough water.
We stayed home from Muskoka this week due to the crapy weather, I'm working
over the weekend then we plan to head back up north on the 26th.
Regards, Angus






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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 12:01 AM 8/22/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Thanks for the info Drew,
Did you purchase the prop through Murphy?
All your numbers sound real good to me, my plane is a bit heavy, I always
fill the fuel tank and tend to load too much stuff.
As an aside; I have not moved my trim for almost 2 years it is aligned at
neutral with the trailing edge, in flight I can tell when the dog is moving
around behind me but it doesn't change the angle of attack or stick
pressure.
The flying rods are intended to be a more certain structural member than the
wires. Not concerned about aerodynamics as much as worried about stretching
the thimbles or breaking on rough water.
We stayed home from Muskoka this week due to the crapy weather, I'm working
over the weekend then we plan to head back up north on the 26th.
Regards, Angus

Hi Angus I bought the prop right from prince and had it shipped to Port
Huron so I could broker it through customs myself.The size is 74 x 46". Is
it possible that having a weak link like thimbles would save the rest of
the floats from damage during a rough water landing.
Drew



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[Drew Dalgleish]

Hi Walter When did I ever give you the impression that I have the skills to
fly straight and level? :) I've never checked top speed bt I think it
sounds like a fun thing to try one of these days. I'll let you know if it
happens. The engine is an ECI titan clone 160hp. I think they said it made
168 on the dyno with test magnetos. I have the emag electronic ignition
Which at least one RV driver tells me is worth another 10hp.

At 08:36 PM 8/21/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Drew, what is your top speed straight and level, WOT, and at what rpm? Do
you have 150 or 160 hp?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 6:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Props

At 08:56 AM 8/21/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Drew,
Please tell me more about your Prince prop.
Weight, pitch, rpm's, performance, $??

I was talking to Clair about replacing my float-brace wires with his
Scottish made-rolled thread, aerodynamic flying rods and he is putting a
price together for me. Will let you know.

We've been up around MacKeller; and into Manitouabin, Long, Axe and
Snakeskin lakes this year, is that near where you are?
Thanks........Angus

Hi Angus I'll have to check my log book for the prop size. I'm not sure of
the weight but it's less than 10lbs. It seems to be well matched to my
engine it'll run up around 2600rpm for climb out and up just past red line
in level flight. 2400rpm gives 105mph indicated 2500 gets me close to 115.
I'm pretty sure my airspeed indicator is a bit optomistic though. I don't
often fly at gross but with me full fuel and 50lbs baggage I climb at
around 1000fpm at 80mph. It'll climb a bit faster at 70 but I can't see
where I'm going then. Real world performance is it's 172 miles to the
cottage from Centralia by GPS and I can get there in about 1.8hrs hobbs
time that includes taxiing etc. We're on little McKellar lake that's the
next one north of Manitouwabing so you were right in the neighbourhood.

I don't know much about flying rods I'm sure more aerodynamic is better but
would they make a noticable difference. Also is there any spring in the
wires we have now and if so is that a good or bad thing?
Drew



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Drew



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[Walter Klatt]

Yes, it sounds like you have a good performer, which is why I am curious.
Got to get you out to BC one of these years, so we can put those ponies to
work.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Props

Hi Walter When did I ever give you the impression that I have the skills to
fly straight and level? :) I've never checked top speed bt I think it
sounds like a fun thing to try one of these days. I'll let you know if it
happens. The engine is an ECI titan clone 160hp. I think they said it made
168 on the dyno with test magnetos. I have the emag electronic ignition
Which at least one RV driver tells me is worth another 10hp.

At 08:36 PM 8/21/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Drew, what is your top speed straight and level, WOT, and at what rpm? Do
you have 150 or 160 hp?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 6:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Props

At 08:56 AM 8/21/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Drew,
Please tell me more about your Prince prop.
Weight, pitch, rpm's, performance, $??

I was talking to Clair about replacing my float-brace wires with his
Scottish made-rolled thread, aerodynamic flying rods and he is putting a
price together for me. Will let you know.

We've been up around MacKeller; and into Manitouabin, Long, Axe and
Snakeskin lakes this year, is that near where you are?
Thanks........Angus

Hi Angus I'll have to check my log book for the prop size. I'm not sure of
the weight but it's less than 10lbs. It seems to be well matched to my
engine it'll run up around 2600rpm for climb out and up just past red line
in level flight. 2400rpm gives 105mph indicated 2500 gets me close to 115.
I'm pretty sure my airspeed indicator is a bit optomistic though. I don't
often fly at gross but with me full fuel and 50lbs baggage I climb at
around 1000fpm at 80mph. It'll climb a bit faster at 70 but I can't see
where I'm going then. Real world performance is it's 172 miles to the
cottage from Centralia by GPS and I can get there in about 1.8hrs hobbs
time that includes taxiing etc. We're on little McKellar lake that's the
next one north of Manitouwabing so you were right in the neighbourhood.

I don't know much about flying rods I'm sure more aerodynamic is better but
would they make a noticable difference. Also is there any spring in the
wires we have now and if so is that a good or bad thing?
Drew



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Drew



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[Drew Dalgleish]

Hopefully it'll happen someday. I've finally convinced my wife that it's
practical to fly to our camp near Thunder Bay so B.C. is only a little
farther.

At 08:44 PM 8/23/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Yes, it sounds like you have a good performer, which is why I am curious.
Got to get you out to BC one of these years, so we can put those ponies to
work.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Props

Hi Walter When did I ever give you the impression that I have the skills to
fly straight and level? :) I've never checked top speed bt I think it
sounds like a fun thing to try one of these days. I'll let you know if it
happens. The engine is an ECI titan clone 160hp. I think they said it made
168 on the dyno with test magnetos. I have the emag electronic ignition
Which at least one RV driver tells me is worth another 10hp.

At 08:36 PM 8/21/2007 -0700, you wrote:

Drew, what is your top speed straight and level, WOT, and at what rpm? Do
you have 150 or 160 hp?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 6:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Props

At 08:56 AM 8/21/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Drew,
Please tell me more about your Prince prop.
Weight, pitch, rpm's, performance, $??

I was talking to Clair about replacing my float-brace wires with his
Scottish made-rolled thread, aerodynamic flying rods and he is putting a
price together for me. Will let you know.

We've been up around MacKeller; and into Manitouabin, Long, Axe and
Snakeskin lakes this year, is that near where you are?
Thanks........Angus

Hi Angus I'll have to check my log book for the prop size. I'm not sure of
the weight but it's less than 10lbs. It seems to be well matched to my
engine it'll run up around 2600rpm for climb out and up just past red line
in level flight. 2400rpm gives 105mph indicated 2500 gets me close to 115.
I'm pretty sure my airspeed indicator is a bit optomistic though. I don't
often fly at gross but with me full fuel and 50lbs baggage I climb at
around 1000fpm at 80mph. It'll climb a bit faster at 70 but I can't see
where I'm going then. Real world performance is it's 172 miles to the
cottage from Centralia by GPS and I can get there in about 1.8hrs hobbs
time that includes taxiing etc. We're on little McKellar lake that's the
next one north of Manitouwabing so you were right in the neighbourhood.

I don't know much about flying rods I'm sure more aerodynamic is better but
would they make a noticable difference. Also is there any spring in the
wires we have now and if so is that a good or bad thing?
Drew



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Drew



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[Bob Fisher]

hi walter i tried a borer prop about 2 years ago climbed a little better
not signifigantly! but it was soooooo slow in cruise compared to the
sensenich that i took it off the next day

bob fisher rebel 342
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:48 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Props

Sure would like to see someone try a Borer. I had a chance a couple years
ago, when someone offered to lend me one. But with my cowl and need for a
spacer, it wouldn't fit. I realize the cruise speed would be less, but am
really curious to see how fast it can come off the water, and what the
climb
rate would be.

My prediction for 150 hp is less than 10 seconds (in near no wind
conditions) and 1500 fpm. If not, then it is not worth it.

The only way I get less than 10 seconds with mine, is with a good head
wind.
Top climb for me solo, is 1100 fpm. That is with the Sensenich 74 X 54 and
150 hp.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Angus
McKenzie
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 9:29 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Props

Hi everybody, summer greetings!

I've been running a McCauley 74X56 (now re-pitched 54") that was on my
0-320-A2B on the Champion GCBC it came from.

Built the engine up to 160+hp; the prop worked great at 56" on wheels and
then I went on MAM amphibs, after trying a friends' 74X52 I had the 56"
re-pitched to 54". Works quite well.

Off the water in fairly quick times at gross+ and cruises at 80kts IAS at
2400rpm.

Max static rpm is 2400 and max level flight rpm is 2550.

Not getting to the 2700rpm where all the horsepower lives. Possibly a bit
over-propped.

So, to complicate the equation I bought an 80X40 Borer (McCauley) off a
150hp Champion GCBC.
I intend to install this prop as-is and verify performance but I'm
expecting
to need to re-pitch to about 43". Oh', as well, there was a 2" McCauley
spacer came with the prop if anybody needs one let me know.

Has anyone else tried a Borer? Results? Numbers? Advice? I know that
"rule-of-thumb" is: 1" of pitch = 100rpm

As an aside to this I heard today from Carm Titus that his cousin Mike
Titus
(longtime Leavens employee who has helped many of us Rebel types with our
engines) was working on a plane at Brampton in recent weeks and
momentarily
distracted by a bystander got hit in the head by a prop blade. Carm said
Mike is going to lose one eye. You can't be too careful.

Thanks and best regards to everyone, Angus



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[Walter Klatt]

Were you flying off the water with it and if so how many seconds?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Fisher
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:57 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Props

hi walter i tried a borer prop about 2 years ago climbed a little better
not signifigantly! but it was soooooo slow in cruise compared to the
sensenich that i took it off the next day

bob fisher rebel 342
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:48 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Props

Sure would like to see someone try a Borer. I had a chance a couple years
ago, when someone offered to lend me one. But with my cowl and need for a
spacer, it wouldn't fit. I realize the cruise speed would be less, but am
really curious to see how fast it can come off the water, and what the
climb
rate would be.

My prediction for 150 hp is less than 10 seconds (in near no wind
conditions) and 1500 fpm. If not, then it is not worth it.

The only way I get less than 10 seconds with mine, is with a good head
wind.
Top climb for me solo, is 1100 fpm. That is with the Sensenich 74 X 54 and
150 hp.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Angus
McKenzie
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 9:29 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Props

Hi everybody, summer greetings!

I've been running a McCauley 74X56 (now re-pitched 54") that was on my
0-320-A2B on the Champion GCBC it came from.

Built the engine up to 160+hp; the prop worked great at 56" on wheels and
then I went on MAM amphibs, after trying a friends' 74X52 I had the 56"
re-pitched to 54". Works quite well.

Off the water in fairly quick times at gross+ and cruises at 80kts IAS at
2400rpm.

Max static rpm is 2400 and max level flight rpm is 2550.

Not getting to the 2700rpm where all the horsepower lives. Possibly a bit
over-propped.

So, to complicate the equation I bought an 80X40 Borer (McCauley) off a
150hp Champion GCBC.
I intend to install this prop as-is and verify performance but I'm
expecting
to need to re-pitch to about 43". Oh', as well, there was a 2" McCauley
spacer came with the prop if anybody needs one let me know.

Has anyone else tried a Borer? Results? Numbers? Advice? I know that
"rule-of-thumb" is: 1" of pitch = 100rpm

As an aside to this I heard today from Carm Titus that his cousin Mike
Titus
(longtime Leavens employee who has helped many of us Rebel types with our
engines) was working on a plane at Brampton in recent weeks and
momentarily
distracted by a bystander got hit in the head by a prop blade. Carm said
Mike is going to lose one eye. You can't be too careful.

Thanks and best regards to everyone, Angus



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[Drew Dalgleish]

Hi Walter I tried a top speed run today 7500' WOT 2600rpm 2 way average of
115mph
Drew



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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 08:56 AM 8/21/2007 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Drew,
Please tell me more about your Prince prop.
Weight, pitch, rpm's, performance, $??

I was talking to Clair about replacing my float-brace wires with his
Scottish made-rolled thread, aerodynamic flying rods and he is putting a
price together for me. Will let you know.

We've been up around MacKeller; and into Manitouabin, Long, Axe and
Snakeskin lakes this year, is that near where you are?
Thanks........Angus

Hi Angus I missed the $? the first time I think it was about $2200.
Drew



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[Walter Klatt]

So, what you're saying is that your climb rpm and WOT straight and level are
the same?? Is that your static/take-off rpm as well? Is it possible to go
even finer pitch with the Prince, to get even better water performance?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:45 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Props

Hi Walter I tried a top speed run today 7500' WOT 2600rpm 2 way average of
115mph
Drew



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