reply to Brian

[Geert Frank]

Hi Brian, yeah it reads a little funny, but that is exactly what I am
suggesting. There cannot be any other way you can have aileron use in flight
AND be able to do what he is apparently capable of doing. Those plugs as you
correctly call them are a very tight or press fit into the tube, I SUPPOSE
that you could have one or two that were not rivetted AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE OF COURSE and precisely because of the press fit and therefore the
friction of the plug inside the tube, you could get the tube to move, read
rotate. If I am recalling right, there are six of those plugs with control
arms attached, three different lengths of torque tube and two plugs of
course per tube. Now you have been inside these aircraft a lot more than
most of us, maybe you can come up with another theory, exactly the reason I
put it out there. OK? Needless to say, as he flies a little more,
the plug(s) will "wear" away some of the friction and we are looking at a
very bad situation. Regards, Geert

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[rebelair]

HI Geert

As I recall, there are a total of eight of these plugs (EL-31?) fitted into
the 2" torque tubes. These include the ones inside the cockpit. The whole
concept of one or more of these plugs not riveted with the qty. 8, 3/16"
rivets is inconceivable/unthinkable!

I agree this is one of the very few reasons that there could be any rotation
as you suggest. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I suppose that maybe
that not all of the rivets were installed and the rivets could have sheared
through the very thin wall tubing (which is only 0.035" I recall). This is
the only thing that I could think of off the top of my head. This is just
something I never could have imagined. MAM used 3/16", qty. 8, stainless
steel rivets per joint for a good reason. You never would want this to
fail. Don't people check this kind of stuff during construction. It really
makes you think twice about buying & flying somebody else's amateur built
aircraft. I am a strong supporter of the amateur built concept but it does
rely strongly upon the inspectors & also the idea that the inspector is very
familiar with the aircraft he is inspecting. A big job considering the
number of possible aircraft that can be built in this category.

Lets pray that there really is not 5 aircraft out there with this problem!!
Please keep us posted if you hear anymore.

Thanks

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 10:51 AM
To: murphy archives
Subject: reply to Brian


Hi Brian, yeah it reads a little funny, but that is exactly what I am
suggesting. There cannot be any other way you can have aileron use in flight
AND be able to do what he is apparently capable of doing. Those plugs as you
correctly call them are a very tight or press fit into the tube, I SUPPOSE
that you could have one or two that were not rivetted AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE OF COURSE and precisely because of the press fit and therefore the
friction of the plug inside the tube, you could get the tube to move, read
rotate. If I am recalling right, there are six of those plugs with control
arms attached, three different lengths of torque tube and two plugs of
course per tube. Now you have been inside these aircraft a lot more than
most of us, maybe you can come up with another theory, exactly the reason I
put it out there. OK? Needless to say, as he flies a little more,
the plug(s) will "wear" away some of the friction and we are looking at a
very bad situation. Regards, Geert

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[Bob Patterson]

Brian,

This inspection thing is one of the main reasons we are not allowed to
import homebuilts from the USA ! They only have ONE inspection, AFTER
the aircraft is completed !!!

This would make it VERY difficult for the inspector to check if
those rivets WERE in place !!!

Of course, things get missed here, too, even with 3 or 4
inspections, and several pairs of eyes checking - there have been at least
THREE Rebels passed (& flown !!) with the ailerons hooked up BACKWARDS !!
( a "GOOD THING"(TM) to CHECK before that first flight ! ;-) )

Lets hope this one gets fixed ...

....bobp

------------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 09:11 PM 5/22/00 -0400, you wrote:

HI Geert

As I recall, there are a total of eight of these plugs (EL-31?) fitted into
the 2" torque tubes. These include the ones inside the cockpit. The whole
concept of one or more of these plugs not riveted with the qty. 8, 3/16"
rivets is inconceivable/unthinkable!

I agree this is one of the very few reasons that there could be any rotation
as you suggest. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I suppose that maybe
that not all of the rivets were installed and the rivets could have sheared
through the very thin wall tubing (which is only 0.035" I recall). This is
the only thing that I could think of off the top of my head. This is just
something I never could have imagined. MAM used 3/16", qty. 8, stainless
steel rivets per joint for a good reason. You never would want this to
fail. Don't people check this kind of stuff during construction. It really
makes you think twice about buying & flying somebody else's amateur built
aircraft. I am a strong supporter of the amateur built concept but it does
rely strongly upon the inspectors & also the idea that the inspector is very
familiar with the aircraft he is inspecting. A big job considering the
number of possible aircraft that can be built in this category.

Lets pray that there really is not 5 aircraft out there with this problem!!
Please keep us posted if you hear anymore.

Thanks

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank [mailto:storchpilot@mediaone.net]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 10:51 AM
To: murphy archives
Subject: reply to Brian


Hi Brian, yeah it reads a little funny, but that is exactly what I am
suggesting. There cannot be any other way you can have aileron use in flight
AND be able to do what he is apparently capable of doing. Those plugs as you
correctly call them are a very tight or press fit into the tube, I SUPPOSE
that you could have one or two that were not rivetted AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE OF COURSE and precisely because of the press fit and therefore the
friction of the plug inside the tube, you could get the tube to move, read
rotate. If I am recalling right, there are six of those plugs with control
arms attached, three different lengths of torque tube and two plugs of
course per tube. Now you have been inside these aircraft a lot more than
most of us, maybe you can come up with another theory, exactly the reason I
put it out there. OK? Needless to say, as he flies a little more,
the plug(s) will "wear" away some of the friction and we are looking at a
very bad situation. Regards, Geert

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
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Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

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---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




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