Extended range tanks- Rebel

[Keith Leitch]

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

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[pequeajim]

Either way, the more fuel you carry, the less people and baggage you can
take. The Rebel however has a good useful load to start with, so if you're
flying by yourself with gear, you can carry a lot of fuel!

On the O-360 install, do a search on here for "Ultimate Rebel". It is a pretty
nice setup and I believe there is a video in the file area of him taking off with
the O-360 strapped to the front. Very interesting reading.

Bob P. can give you the run down on that one. I have an O-320 in mine.

Jim!

On 2/17/2006 8:39 AM, im_planecrazy@yahoo.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> I have researched the site on extended tanks and
-> didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
-> installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
-> possibly an 0-360.
->
-> My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
-> really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
-> often. Do they add much weight?
->
-> Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
-> installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
-> Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
-> modifications. Any suggestions?
->
-> Thanks,
-> Keith
->
-> __________________________________________________
-> Do You Yahoo!?
-> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
-> http://mail.yahoo.com





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[Jesse Jenks]

Keith,
I just finished my Rebel wings with 4 bay (extended range) tanks. I did it
for the occasional long trip into the boonies, because I don't want to carry
jugs in the cabin. It's an easy mod, but does require more labor with pro
seal and rivets, and adds a little weight. I'll have to wait and see if it's
a worthwhile mod. I'm planning an 0-320.
As with most mods, it is a personal choice. You just have to think about how
you will use the airplane, then tailor it to your needs. That's the cool
thing about homebuilts.
Jesse

From: Keith Leitch <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:39:43 -0800 (PST)

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Keith !

I wouldn't even think about bigger tanks !! The Rebel already
has about 50 % more fuel than a C-172 - and it's 'way beyond bladder
range now !! :-) Typically, they hold about 49 gallons - never mind
what the specs say ...

You will already be carrying nearly 300 lb of fuel - a lot of
useful load gone .... We've flown across the country many times,
east/west and north/south - never had a problem with standard tanks,
as all the other aircraft flying with us needed fuel sooner. AFAIK,
there's only one or 2 Rebels out there with larger tanks - likely
NOT a good idea, as, with partial tanks, you have a greater chance
of condensation, AND poor fuel flow, because 1" depth of fuel doesn't
have much of a 'head', and can slosh around a lot !

The 360 is definitely great on amphibs - but NOT a Lyc. 360 -
go with the XP-360, balanced. The standard Lyc. 360s have vibration
limit ranges depending on prop, etc. - typically, NO continuous
operation between 1900 and 2400 RPM - a very useful range !!
If you run them there, there's a good chance of a broken crank !
<I> would NOT move the firewall back - it screws up toooo many
things, and the Rebel flies just great with it in the 'normal'
place .... The only mods you need are the Ontario Mods, and
those include Wayne's firewall plates, and FUS-70's for ALL 8
corner wraps - and, of course, all the factory S/B mods.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 17 February 2006 12:39 pm, Keith Leitch wrote:

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

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[Jesse Jenks]

Bob, Keith,
My reason for wanting the extra capacity is not for one long flight, but for
when you fly a long way to somewhere that doesn't have a fuel pump and you
want to be able to get home again. As for the condensation issue, I used to
fly Cessnas for a commercial air taxi operator in northwest Washington and
BC. We were always so overloaded with people and suitcases that we rarely
had more than an hour of fuel in the tanks. I never drained more than the
usual few drops of water from the tanks on the morning preflight. I just
don't think it's a real issue. As for fuel flow, I guess I'll find out, but
again, it was never a problem for me in a Cessna.
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:07:00 -0500

Hi Keith !

I wouldn't even think about bigger tanks !! The Rebel already
has about 50 % more fuel than a C-172 - and it's 'way beyond bladder
range now !! :-) Typically, they hold about 49 gallons - never mind
what the specs say ...

You will already be carrying nearly 300 lb of fuel - a lot of
useful load gone .... We've flown across the country many times,
east/west and north/south - never had a problem with standard tanks,
as all the other aircraft flying with us needed fuel sooner. AFAIK,
there's only one or 2 Rebels out there with larger tanks - likely
NOT a good idea, as, with partial tanks, you have a greater chance
of condensation, AND poor fuel flow, because 1" depth of fuel doesn't
have much of a 'head', and can slosh around a lot !

The 360 is definitely great on amphibs - but NOT a Lyc. 360 -
go with the XP-360, balanced. The standard Lyc. 360s have vibration
limit ranges depending on prop, etc. - typically, NO continuous
operation between 1900 and 2400 RPM - a very useful range !!
If you run them there, there's a good chance of a broken crank !
<I> would NOT move the firewall back - it screws up toooo many
things, and the Rebel flies just great with it in the 'normal'
place .... The only mods you need are the Ontario Mods, and
those include Wayne's firewall plates, and FUS-70's for ALL 8
corner wraps - and, of course, all the factory S/B mods.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 17 February 2006 12:39 pm, Keith Leitch wrote:

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320 or
possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska but
really don't think I will need the extended tanks that
often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past summer at
Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

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[Keith Leitch]

Thanks for the replies everyone. You pretty much said
what I had already been debating about. I think I will
just go with the standard tanks. Jesse, your thoughts
are exactly why I was thinking of long range tanks.
But the way things go with me I may never be able to
take that long trip of my dreams so most of my flying
will probably be around Northern Minnesota and into
some of Canada. Just hope I don't lose my medical
before I finish my Rebel. I have even thought I may
have to finish my Rebel and put it under the new Sport
Pilot. That will leave me with a VERY long range Rebel
since I will need to use a Rotax then.
Keith

--- Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bob, Keith,
My reason for wanting the extra capacity is not for
one long flight, but for
when you fly a long way to somewhere that doesn't
have a fuel pump and you
want to be able to get home again. As for the
condensation issue, I used to
fly Cessnas for a commercial air taxi operator in
northwest Washington and
BC. We were always so overloaded with people and
suitcases that we rarely
had more than an hour of fuel in the tanks. I never
drained more than the
usual few drops of water from the tanks on the
morning preflight. I just
don't think it's a real issue. As for fuel flow, I
guess I'll find out, but
again, it was never a problem for me in a Cessna.
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:07:00 -0500

Hi Keith !

I wouldn't even think about bigger tanks !!

The Rebel already

has about 50 % more fuel than a C-172 - and it's

'way beyond bladder

range now !! :-) Typically, they hold about 49

gallons - never mind

what the specs say ...

You will already be carrying nearly 300 lb

of fuel - a lot of

useful load gone .... We've flown across the

country many times,

east/west and north/south - never had a problem

with standard tanks,

as all the other aircraft flying with us needed

fuel sooner. AFAIK,

there's only one or 2 Rebels out there with larger

tanks - likely

NOT a good idea, as, with partial tanks, you have a

greater chance

of condensation, AND poor fuel flow, because 1"

depth of fuel doesn't

have much of a 'head', and can slosh around a lot !

The 360 is definitely great on amphibs - but

NOT a Lyc. 360 -

go with the XP-360, balanced. The standard Lyc.

360s have vibration

limit ranges depending on prop, etc. - typically,

NO continuous

operation between 1900 and 2400 RPM - a very

useful range !!

If you run them there, there's a good chance of a

broken crank !

<I> would NOT move the firewall back - it screws up

toooo many

things, and the Rebel flies just great with it in

the 'normal'

place .... The only mods you need are the Ontario

Mods, and

those include Wayne's firewall plates, and FUS-70's

for ALL 8

corner wraps - and, of course, all the factory S/B

mods.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Friday 17 February 2006 12:39 pm, Keith Leitch

wrote:

I have researched the site on extended tanks and
didn't find much info. What is the consenses on
installing them. I plan on going with an 0-320

or

possibly an 0-360.

My plan is to one day fly the Rebel to Alaska

but

really don't think I will need the extended

tanks that

often. Do they add much weight?

Are there any Rebels out there with an 0-360
installed? When talking to Robin this past

summer at

Oshkosh he said it could be done with a few
modifications. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Keith

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[Bob Patterson]

Not to worry Keith !

If you decide to go to Sport Pilot, all you have to do is
move the outboard solid ribs inward a bay or 2 ... Most 912
Rebels have only 2 bays/side, or 1 bay on left, and 2 on right,
instead of the standard 3 bays/side. Each bay holds about 8 gal.,
so you still have LOTS of fuel ! (Our 912 only burned about 3 gph !)

Just be sure to leave the firewall in the standard position -
do NOT move it back, or you can forget the Rotax & LSA !!

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 17 February 2006 05:07 pm, Keith Leitch wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone. You pretty much said
what I had already been debating about. I think I will
just go with the standard tanks. Jesse, your thoughts
are exactly why I was thinking of long range tanks.
But the way things go with me I may never be able to
take that long trip of my dreams so most of my flying
will probably be around Northern Minnesota and into
some of Canada. Just hope I don't lose my medical
before I finish my Rebel. I have even thought I may
have to finish my Rebel and put it under the new Sport
Pilot. That will leave me with a VERY long range Rebel
since I will need to use a Rotax then.
Keith

--- Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bob, Keith,
My reason for wanting the extra capacity is not for
one long flight, but for
when you fly a long way to somewhere that doesn't
have a fuel pump and you
want to be able to get home again. As for the
condensation issue, I used to
fly Cessnas for a commercial air taxi operator in
northwest Washington and
BC. We were always so overloaded with people and
suitcases that we rarely
had more than an hour of fuel in the tanks. I never
drained more than the
usual few drops of water from the tanks on the
morning preflight. I just
don't think it's a real issue. As for fuel flow, I
guess I'll find out, but
again, it was never a problem for me in a Cessna.
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Extended range tanks- Rebel
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:07:00 -0500

Hi Keith !

I wouldn't even think about bigger tanks !!

The Rebel already

has about 50 % more fuel than a C-172 - and it's

'way beyond bladder

range now !! :-) Typically, they hold about 49

gallons - never mind

what the specs say ...

You will already be carrying nearly 300 lb

of fuel - a lot of

useful load gone .... We've flown across the

country many times,

east/west and north/south - never had a problem

with standard tanks,

as all the other aircraft flying with us needed

fuel sooner. AFAIK,

there's only one or 2 Rebels out there with larger

tanks - likely

NOT a good idea, as, with partial tanks, you have a

greater chance

of condensation, AND poor fuel flow, because 1"

depth of fuel doesn't

have much of a 'head', and can slosh around a lot !

The 360 is definitely great on amphibs - but

NOT a Lyc. 360 -

go with the XP-360, balanced. The standard Lyc.

360s have vibration

limit ranges depending on prop, etc. - typically,

NO continuous

operation between 1900 and 2400 RPM - a very

useful range !!

If you run them there, there's a good chance of a

broken crank !

<I> would NOT move the firewall back - it screws up

toooo many

things, and the Rebel flies just great with it in

the 'normal'

place .... The only mods you need are the Ontario

Mods, and

those include Wayne's firewall plates, and FUS-70's

for ALL 8

corner wraps - and, of course, all the factory S/B

mods.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Friday 17 February 2006 12:39 pm, Keith Leitch

wrote:

or

but

tanks that

summer at

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[Keith Leitch]

Bob,

I am building the wings at the moment and am going to
go with standard 3 bay. This shouldn't be a problem
later if I end up going with the Rotax should it? Is
there anything different in the building of the
airframe if I end up going with the Rotax vs. Lyc 320
or 360? I am currently planning for the Lyc but, a
medical condition may cause me to be denied a medical
physical in the future. If that happens I will not
renew the medical and go to Sport Pilot. So, I am
trying to leave my options open. I don't want to have
to build and then be one of those people that has to
sell due to lose of medical.

From what I have been reading, most everyone suggests
to leave the firewall alone no mater what engine is
used. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Keith

--- Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Not to worry Keith !

If you decide to go to Sport Pilot, all you have
to do is
move the outboard solid ribs inward a bay or 2 ...
Most 912
Rebels have only 2 bays/side, or 1 bay on left, and
2 on right,
instead of the standard 3 bays/side. Each bay holds
about 8 gal.,
so you still have LOTS of fuel ! (Our 912 only
burned about 3 gph !)

Just be sure to leave the firewall in the
standard position -
do NOT move it back, or you can forget the Rotax &
LSA !!

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Friday 17 February 2006 05:07 pm, Keith Leitch
wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone. You pretty much

said

what I had already been debating about. I think I

will

just go with the standard tanks. Jesse, your

thoughts

are exactly why I was thinking of long range

tanks.

But the way things go with me I may never be able

to

take that long trip of my dreams so most of my

flying

will probably be around Northern Minnesota and

into

some of Canada. Just hope I don't lose my medical
before I finish my Rebel. I have even thought I

may

have to finish my Rebel and put it under the new

Sport

Pilot. That will leave me with a VERY long range

Rebel

since I will need to use a Rotax then.
Keith

--- Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bob, Keith,
My reason for wanting the extra capacity is not

for

one long flight, but for
when you fly a long way to somewhere that

doesn't

have a fuel pump and you
want to be able to get home again. As for the
condensation issue, I used to
fly Cessnas for a commercial air taxi operator

in

northwest Washington and
BC. We were always so overloaded with people and
suitcases that we rarely
had more than an hour of fuel in the tanks. I

never

drained more than the
usual few drops of water from the tanks on the
morning preflight. I just
don't think it's a real issue. As for fuel flow,

I

guess I'll find out, but
again, it was never a problem for me in a

Cessna.

Jesse

!!

The Rebel already

it's

'way beyond bladder

49

gallons - never mind

lb

of fuel - a lot of
country many times,
with standard tanks,
fuel sooner. AFAIK,

larger

tanks - likely

have a

greater chance
depth of fuel doesn't

lot !

but

NOT a Lyc. 360 -

Lyc.

360s have vibration

typically,

NO continuous
useful range !!

a

broken crank !

screws up

toooo many

in

the 'normal'

Ontario

Mods, and

FUS-70's

for ALL 8

S/B

mods.

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

Leitch

wrote:

and

on

0-320

=== message truncated ===


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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Keith !

Yes - leave the firewall alone ! Not a big problem if you
go to the 912 later - you might want to run with just fuel in the
right side .... Be sure to add the firewall doubler plates,
whichever way you go - the extra weight is a real help for the
912 ! ;-)

You could just stop the wings before installing the top
skin, and wait 'til the fuse is done - be a little closer to
decision time then ...

Been puzzling over some way to reduce tank capacity - was
thinking about some kind of balloon that could be pushed into the
outboard end of the tank & inflated ... might be a lot easier
if you had inspection holes in the outer bay ... Ping pong balls ??
I'd be very leery of a spray-in foam ... although it sounds
easy !

Maybe somebody out there has a solution ???

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 17 February 2006 07:53 pm, Keith Leitch wrote:

Bob,

I am building the wings at the moment and am going to
go with standard 3 bay. This shouldn't be a problem
later if I end up going with the Rotax should it? Is
there anything different in the building of the
airframe if I end up going with the Rotax vs. Lyc 320
or 360? I am currently planning for the Lyc but, a
medical condition may cause me to be denied a medical
physical in the future. If that happens I will not
renew the medical and go to Sport Pilot. So, I am
trying to leave my options open. I don't want to have
to build and then be one of those people that has to
sell due to lose of medical.

From what I have been reading, most everyone suggests
to leave the firewall alone no mater what engine is
used. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Keith

--- Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Not to worry Keith !

If you decide to go to Sport Pilot, all you have
to do is
move the outboard solid ribs inward a bay or 2 ...
Most 912
Rebels have only 2 bays/side, or 1 bay on left, and
2 on right,
instead of the standard 3 bays/side. Each bay holds
about 8 gal.,
so you still have LOTS of fuel ! (Our 912 only
burned about 3 gph !)

Just be sure to leave the firewall in the
standard position -
do NOT move it back, or you can forget the Rotax &
LSA !!

......bobp

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