Do you want this big green box to go away? Well here's how...

Click here for full update

Wildcat! photo archives restored.

Click here for full update

Donors can now disable ads.

Click here for instructions

Add yourself to the user map.

Click here for instructions

STOL Cuff or VG's

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
Locked
Walter Klatt

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Walter Klatt » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Have been talking to someone about the virtues of adding VG's to
a wing on a floatplane. As I understand it, VG's work by allowing
a higher angle of attack on the wing before the boundary layer
separates thereby lowering stall speed. But with a float plane,
the angle of attack of your wing on take-off is limited by your
float angle (throat angle) and the sweet spot (on the rear step,
but tails still clear of the water). So if you can't take
advantage of a higher angle of attack on take-off, how would VG's
help with float take-offs?

That made wonder about the Rebel STOL kit. How does it lower
stall speed? Does it also require a higher angle of attack?

Now if VGs or the STOL cuff created more lift (like more wing
area does) at the same angle of attack, then I can see how they
would help with float take-offs, but not sure if they do.

I can see why VG's help with tail dragger land planes, but not
sure about floatplanes.

Walter




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
apoulsen

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by apoulsen » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Hi Walter,

I used to fly floats commercially, mostly in Washington and B.C. but I spent
one season in Alaska flying a 206 with a Robertson STOL. I'm not sure
Robertson makes them anymore but the kit drooped the ailerons and like you
surmised, you can't take advantage of the increase AOA on floats. The kit
also ended up reducing the range of travel of the ailerons thus reducing
roll control at slow speeeds, right where you need it. The 206 isn't that
responsive to begin with and I hated the mod.

Just one guy's opinion.

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:46 PM
Subject: STOL Cuff or VG's

Have been talking to someone about the virtues of adding VG's to
a wing on a floatplane. As I understand it, VG's work by allowing
a higher angle of attack on the wing before the boundary layer
separates thereby lowering stall speed. But with a float plane,
the angle of attack of your wing on take-off is limited by your
float angle (throat angle) and the sweet spot (on the rear step,
but tails still clear of the water). So if you can't take
advantage of a higher angle of attack on take-off, how would VG's
help with float take-offs?

That made wonder about the Rebel STOL kit. How does it lower
stall speed? Does it also require a higher angle of attack?

Now if VGs or the STOL cuff created more lift (like more wing
area does) at the same angle of attack, then I can see how they
would help with float take-offs, but not sure if they do.

I can see why VG's help with tail dragger land planes, but not
sure about floatplanes.

Walter




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Ken

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

The cuffs increase the camber of the wing which means more lift for a
given angle of attack. They also lower the angle of incidence of the
wing though. I don't know if the two things cancel each other out or if
one predominates? We need comments from someone who has added them.

Either mod should allow a slightly slower airspeed and higher climb
angle to get over the trees...

I believe someone mentioned that the cuff also eliminates the high sink
rate tendancy of that wing when trying to flare at low speed??

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Have been talking to someone about the virtues of adding VG's to
a wing on a floatplane. As I understand it, VG's work by allowing
a higher angle of attack on the wing before the boundary layer
separates thereby lowering stall speed. But with a float plane,
the angle of attack of your wing on take-off is limited by your
float angle (throat angle) and the sweet spot (on the rear step,
but tails still clear of the water). So if you can't take
advantage of a higher angle of attack on take-off, how would VG's
help with float take-offs?

That made wonder about the Rebel STOL kit. How does it lower
stall speed? Does it also require a higher angle of attack?

Now if VGs or the STOL cuff created more lift (like more wing
area does) at the same angle of attack, then I can see how they
would help with float take-offs, but not sure if they do.

I can see why VG's help with tail dragger land planes, but not
sure about floatplanes.

Walter




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Bruce Georgen

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Bruce Georgen » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

The mods may not help with take off run from water but once you're air born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at the end of the lake. It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower approach. This may not help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the same lake you got into. But if the water was rough it would help save you from beating your plane up as much.

Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: apoulsen <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Sent: Dec 16, 2005 7:16 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

Hi Walter,

I used to fly floats commercially, mostly in Washington and B.C. but I spent
one season in Alaska flying a 206 with a Robertson STOL. I'm not sure
Robertson makes them anymore but the kit drooped the ailerons and like you
surmised, you can't take advantage of the increase AOA on floats. The kit
also ended up reducing the range of travel of the ailerons thus reducing
roll control at slow speeeds, right where you need it. The 206 isn't that
responsive to begin with and I hated the mod.

Just one guy's opinion.

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:46 PM
Subject: STOL Cuff or VG's

Have been talking to someone about the virtues of adding VG's to
a wing on a floatplane. As I understand it, VG's work by allowing
a higher angle of attack on the wing before the boundary layer
separates thereby lowering stall speed. But with a float plane,
the angle of attack of your wing on take-off is limited by your
float angle (throat angle) and the sweet spot (on the rear step,
but tails still clear of the water). So if you can't take
advantage of a higher angle of attack on take-off, how would VG's
help with float take-offs?

That made wonder about the Rebel STOL kit. How does it lower
stall speed? Does it also require a higher angle of attack?

Now if VGs or the STOL cuff created more lift (like more wing
area does) at the same angle of attack, then I can see how they
would help with float take-offs, but not sure if they do.

I can see why VG's help with tail dragger land planes, but not
sure about floatplanes.

Walter




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Wayne G. O'Shea

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

I totally agree with the tree clearing after getting off the water by
increasing the AOA after you get off the water....but you can't use it
coming in on floats to get slower..= higher nose... or you are going to hit
hard on the keels going slow...throw forward on the bows and possible
dig/ditch. Unless of course you really open up the throat angle similar to a
CH701 on floats.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

The mods may not help with take off run from water but once you're air
born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at the end of the lake.
It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower approach. This may not
help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the same lake you got
into. But if the water was rough it would help save you from beating your
plane up as much.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: apoulsen <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Sent: Dec 16, 2005 7:16 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

Hi Walter,

I used to fly floats commercially, mostly in Washington and B.C. but I
spent
one season in Alaska flying a 206 with a Robertson STOL. I'm not sure
Robertson makes them anymore but the kit drooped the ailerons and like
you
surmised, you can't take advantage of the increase AOA on floats. The kit
also ended up reducing the range of travel of the ailerons thus reducing
roll control at slow speeeds, right where you need it. The 206 isn't that
responsive to begin with and I hated the mod.

Just one guy's opinion.

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:46 PM
Subject: STOL Cuff or VG's

Have been talking to someone about the virtues of adding VG's to
a wing on a floatplane. As I understand it, VG's work by allowing
a higher angle of attack on the wing before the boundary layer
separates thereby lowering stall speed. But with a float plane,
the angle of attack of your wing on take-off is limited by your
float angle (throat angle) and the sweet spot (on the rear step,
but tails still clear of the water). So if you can't take
advantage of a higher angle of attack on take-off, how would VG's
help with float take-offs?

That made wonder about the Rebel STOL kit. How does it lower
stall speed? Does it also require a higher angle of attack?

Now if VGs or the STOL cuff created more lift (like more wing
area does) at the same angle of attack, then I can see how they
would help with float take-offs, but not sure if they do.

I can see why VG's help with tail dragger land planes, but not
sure about floatplanes.

Walter




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Walter Klatt

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Walter Klatt » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I totally agree with the tree clearing after getting
off the water by
increasing the AOA after you get off the water....but
you can't use it
coming in on floats to get slower..= higher nose... or
you are going to hit
hard on the keels going slow...throw forward on the
bows and possible
dig/ditch. Unless of course you really open up the
throat angle similar to a
CH701 on floats.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

The mods may not help with take off run from water
but once you're air
born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at
the end of the lake.
It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower
approach. This may not
help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the
same lake you got
into. But if the water was rough it would help save
you from beating your
plane up as much.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: apoulsen <apoulsen@comcast.net>
Sent: Dec 16, 2005 7:16 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

Hi Walter,

I used to fly floats commercially, mostly in
Washington and B.C. but I
spent
one season in Alaska flying a 206 with a Robertson
STOL. I'm not sure
Robertson makes them anymore but the kit drooped
the ailerons and like
you
surmised, you can't take advantage of the increase
AOA on floats. The kit
also ended up reducing the range of travel of the
ailerons thus reducing
roll control at slow speeeds, right where you need
it. The 206 isn't that
responsive to begin with and I hated the mod.

Just one guy's opinion.

Allen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: "Rebel-Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:46 PM
Subject: STOL Cuff or VG's

adding VG's to
work by allowing
boundary layer
a float plane,
limited by your
the rear step,
take-off, how would VG's
does it lower
of attack?
(like more wing
can see how they
planes, but not
-------------------------------------------------------
----------
-------------------------------------------------------
----------
------------------------------------------------------
-----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
------------------------------------------------------
-----------

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------






-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Jesse Jenks

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

In theory I don't think VGs are supposed to increase lift for a given AOA,
but I could be wrong. If you are trying to get off the water faster, then a
combination of increasing throat angle and adding VGs or cuffs seems like
the answer. The picture of Jack Weibs rebel riding on the tails looks like a
pretty low throat angle to me.
Just the observations of an inexperienced float pilot.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:30 -0800

Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I totally agree with the tree clearing after getting
off the water by
increasing the AOA after you get off the water....but
you can't use it
coming in on floats to get slower..= higher nose... or
you are going to hit
hard on the keels going slow...throw forward on the
bows and possible
dig/ditch. Unless of course you really open up the
throat angle similar to a
CH701 on floats.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

The mods may not help with take off run from water
but once you're air
born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at
the end of the lake.
It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower
approach. This may not
help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the
same lake you got
into. But if the water was rough it would help save
you from beating your
plane up as much.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
Washington and B.C. but I
spent
STOL. I'm not sure
the ailerons and like
you
AOA on floats. The kit
ailerons thus reducing
it. The 206 isn't that
adding VG's to
work by allowing
boundary layer
a float plane,
limited by your
the rear step,
take-off, how would VG's
does it lower
of attack?
(like more wing
can see how they
planes, but not
-------------------------------------------------------
----------
-------------------------------------------------------
----------
------------------------------------------------------
-----------
------------------------------------------------------
-----------

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------






-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Ken

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

I think MAM has kept the V angle of the float bottoms fairly shallow for
good takeoff performance whereas floats with a deep keel tend to ride
rough water and rough landings better.

Any chance the Elite owner will fly it without the VG's first for
comparison?

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Walter Klatt

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Walter Klatt » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

I'm trying to talk him in to flying without first, but he wants
to put them on right away. Will have to wait and see. Wish he
would move his butt and get it finished, though. He has an 0360
and the 1800 amphibs, so should be interesting to see how it
performs.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 3:35 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I think MAM has kept the V angle of the float bottoms
fairly shallow for
good takeoff performance whereas floats with a deep
keel tend to ride
rough water and rough landings better.

Any chance the Elite owner will fly it without the
VG's first for
comparison?

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high.
It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will
help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know,
Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off
run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he
is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and
see how he
does.

Walter




-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
bransom

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by bransom » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

VGs keep the air flow attached at an AOA greater than a clean wing (no VGs).
Detached airflow is stall, attached is lift. So, it would seem to follow that
VGs would allow a steeper climb (if enf power) ...in theory anyway.
-Ben/ 496R

On 12/17/2005 1:27 PM, jessejenks@hotmail.com wrote to rebel-builders:
In theory I don't think VGs are supposed to increase lift for a given AOA,
but I could be wrong. If you are trying to get off the water faster, then a
combination of increasing throat angle and adding VGs or cuffs seems like
the answer. The picture of Jack Weibs rebel riding on the tails looks like
a
pretty low throat angle to me.
Just the observations of an inexperienced float pilot.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:30 -0800

Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I totally agree with the tree clearing after getting
off the water by
increasing the AOA after you get off the water....but
you can't use it
coming in on floats to get slower..= higher nose... or
you are going to hit
hard on the keels going slow...throw forward on the
bows and possible
dig/ditch. Unless of course you really open up the
throat angle similar to a
CH701 on floats.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

but once you're air
born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at
the end of the lake.
It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower
approach. This may not
help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the
same lake you got
into. But if the water was rough it would help save
you from beating your
plane up as much. Washington and B.C. but I
spent STOL. I'm not sure the ailerons and like
you AOA on floats. The kit ailerons thus reducing it. The 206 isn't that adding VG's to work by allowing boundary layer a float plane, limited by your the rear step, take-off, how would VG's does it lower of attack? (like more wing can see how they planes, but not -------------------------------------------------------
---------- -------------------------------------------------------
---------- ----------- ----------- -------------------------------------------------------
---------- -------------------------------------------------------
----------






-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Bruce Georgen

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Bruce Georgen » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

It will be difficult to compare the Elite and Rebel performance because doesn't the Elites have an empty weight 100 or 150 lbs. more than the Rebel? There is a formula for horse power and weight. Does anyone remember it?

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Sent: Dec 17, 2005 4:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

I'm trying to talk him in to flying without first, but he wants
to put them on right away. Will have to wait and see. Wish he
would move his butt and get it finished, though. He has an 0360
and the 1800 amphibs, so should be interesting to see how it
performs.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 3:35 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I think MAM has kept the V angle of the float bottoms
fairly shallow for
good takeoff performance whereas floats with a deep
keel tend to ride
rough water and rough landings better.

Any chance the Elite owner will fly it without the
VG's first for
comparison?

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high.
It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will
help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know,
Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off
run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he
is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and
see how he
does.

Walter




-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Walter Klatt

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Walter Klatt » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Do you guys remember this discussion about a month ago? I am still trying to
find any experience with VGs on floats, and whether they help on take-off. I
have been told (not on this list) that VGs help with climb performance
because they create more lift at a given angle of attack as well. So if that
is true, then they should also help shorten float take-offs.

But I can't find anyone that has used them on a floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

In theory I don't think VGs are supposed to increase lift for a given AOA,
but I could be wrong. If you are trying to get off the water faster, then a
combination of increasing throat angle and adding VGs or cuffs seems like
the answer. The picture of Jack Weibs rebel riding on the tails looks like a

pretty low throat angle to me.
Just the observations of an inexperienced float pilot.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:30 -0800

Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I totally agree with the tree clearing after getting
off the water by
increasing the AOA after you get off the water....but
you can't use it
coming in on floats to get slower..= higher nose... or
you are going to hit
hard on the keels going slow...throw forward on the
bows and possible
dig/ditch. Unless of course you really open up the
throat angle similar to a
CH701 on floats.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

The mods may not help with take off run from water
but once you're air
born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at
the end of the lake.
It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower
approach. This may not
help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the
same lake you got
into. But if the water was rough it would help save
you from beating your
plane up as much.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
Washington and B.C. but I
spent
STOL. I'm not sure
the ailerons and like
you
AOA on floats. The kit
ailerons thus reducing
it. The 206 isn't that
adding VG's to
work by allowing
boundary layer
a float plane,
limited by your
the rear step,
take-off, how would VG's
does it lower
of attack?
(like more wing
can see how they
planes, but not
-------------------------------------------------------
----------
-------------------------------------------------------
----------
------------------------------------------------------
-----------
------------------------------------------------------
-----------

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------






-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Al Paxhia

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Al Paxhia » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Walter,
I have VG's on the Moose and they help most on landing but on water takeoff
it's still AOA issue. I can't get enough AOA until the airplane is off the
water. Taking off on land as soon as there is enough elevator authority to
pitch the nose up the airplane will climb straight up (seems that way but
not quite). We have a bump in the grass about 500 feet from the threshold,
this bump will also pitch the airplane up. The pitch up is severe enough
that the indicated airspeed is still zero. As soon as the nose is lowered
the airspeed goes to 50mph and she will climb out.
Where the VG's shine is aileron control and slow speed control. The airplane
will fly very slow at a high AOA and the aileron authority is there with
full flaps and full aileron droop. Also stalls are a non event on floats
with VG's without the VG's just prior to the stall my airplane would start a
roll oscillation that I didn't like.
Bottom line, until the floats are out of the water they don't help me. I
also believe they are a must have for the Moose.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

Do you guys remember this discussion about a month ago? I am still trying
to
find any experience with VGs on floats, and whether they help on take-off.
I
have been told (not on this list) that VGs help with climb performance
because they create more lift at a given angle of attack as well. So if
that
is true, then they should also help shorten float take-offs.

But I can't find anyone that has used them on a floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

In theory I don't think VGs are supposed to increase lift for a given AOA,
but I could be wrong. If you are trying to get off the water faster, then
a
combination of increasing throat angle and adding VGs or cuffs seems like
the answer. The picture of Jack Weibs rebel riding on the tails looks like
a

pretty low throat angle to me.
Just the observations of an inexperienced float pilot.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:30 -0800

Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I totally agree with the tree clearing after getting
off the water by
increasing the AOA after you get off the water....but
you can't use it
coming in on floats to get slower..= higher nose... or
you are going to hit
hard on the keels going slow...throw forward on the
bows and possible
dig/ditch. Unless of course you really open up the
throat angle similar to a
CH701 on floats.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

but once you're air
born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at
the end of the lake.
It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower
approach. This may not
help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the
same lake you got
into. But if the water was rough it would help save
you from beating your
plane up as much. Washington and B.C. but I
spent STOL. I'm not sure the ailerons and like
you AOA on floats. The kit ailerons thus reducing it. The 206 isn't that adding VG's to work by allowing boundary layer a float plane, limited by your the rear step, take-off, how would VG's does it lower of attack? (like more wing can see how they planes, but not -------------------------------------------------------
---------- -------------------------------------------------------
---------- ----------- ----------- -------------------------------------------------------
---------- -------------------------------------------------------
----------






-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Walter Klatt

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Walter Klatt » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Hmmm, thanks Al, didn't realize you had them. What about on the bottom of
the horizontal stab, do you have them there?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:07 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

Walter,
I have VG's on the Moose and they help most on landing but on water takeoff
it's still AOA issue. I can't get enough AOA until the airplane is off the
water. Taking off on land as soon as there is enough elevator authority to
pitch the nose up the airplane will climb straight up (seems that way but
not quite). We have a bump in the grass about 500 feet from the threshold,
this bump will also pitch the airplane up. The pitch up is severe enough
that the indicated airspeed is still zero. As soon as the nose is lowered
the airspeed goes to 50mph and she will climb out.
Where the VG's shine is aileron control and slow speed control. The airplane

will fly very slow at a high AOA and the aileron authority is there with
full flaps and full aileron droop. Also stalls are a non event on floats
with VG's without the VG's just prior to the stall my airplane would start a

roll oscillation that I didn't like.
Bottom line, until the floats are out of the water they don't help me. I
also believe they are a must have for the Moose.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

Do you guys remember this discussion about a month ago? I am still trying
to
find any experience with VGs on floats, and whether they help on take-off.
I
have been told (not on this list) that VGs help with climb performance
because they create more lift at a given angle of attack as well. So if
that
is true, then they should also help shorten float take-offs.

But I can't find anyone that has used them on a floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

In theory I don't think VGs are supposed to increase lift for a given AOA,
but I could be wrong. If you are trying to get off the water faster, then
a
combination of increasing throat angle and adding VGs or cuffs seems like
the answer. The picture of Jack Weibs rebel riding on the tails looks like
a

pretty low throat angle to me.
Just the observations of an inexperienced float pilot.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:30 -0800

Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's


I totally agree with the tree clearing after getting
off the water by
increasing the AOA after you get off the water....but
you can't use it
coming in on floats to get slower..= higher nose... or
you are going to hit
hard on the keels going slow...throw forward on the
bows and possible
dig/ditch. Unless of course you really open up the
throat angle similar to a
CH701 on floats.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

but once you're air
born, the increase in AOA may help you clear trees at
the end of the lake.
It must help in landing too, by giving you a slower
approach. This may not
help a whole lot since you can't always get out of the
same lake you got
into. But if the water was rough it would help save
you from beating your
plane up as much. Washington and B.C. but I
spent STOL. I'm not sure the ailerons and like
you AOA on floats. The kit ailerons thus reducing it. The 206 isn't that adding VG's to work by allowing boundary layer a float plane, limited by your the rear step, take-off, how would VG's does it lower of attack? (like more wing can see how they planes, but not -------------------------------------------------------
---------- -------------------------------------------------------
---------- ----------- ----------- -------------------------------------------------------
---------- -------------------------------------------------------
----------






-------------------------------------------------------
----------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
----------




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Al Paxhia

STOL Cuff or VG's

Post by Al Paxhia » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Yes, they are on the bottom of the stab, without them I can't get enough
elevator authority to break the stall.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

Hmmm, thanks Al, didn't realize you had them. What about on the bottom of
the horizontal stab, do you have them there?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:07 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: STOL Cuff or VG's

Walter,
I have VG's on the Moose and they help most on landing but on water
takeoff
it's still AOA issue. I can't get enough AOA until the airplane is off the
water. Taking off on land as soon as there is enough elevator authority to
pitch the nose up the airplane will climb straight up (seems that way but
not quite). We have a bump in the grass about 500 feet from the threshold,
this bump will also pitch the airplane up. The pitch up is severe enough
that the indicated airspeed is still zero. As soon as the nose is lowered
the airspeed goes to 50mph and she will climb out.
Where the VG's shine is aileron control and slow speed control. The
airplane

will fly very slow at a high AOA and the aileron authority is there with
full flaps and full aileron droop. Also stalls are a non event on floats
with VG's without the VG's just prior to the stall my airplane would start
a

roll oscillation that I didn't like.
Bottom line, until the floats are out of the water they don't help me. I
also believe they are a must have for the Moose.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

Do you guys remember this discussion about a month ago? I am still trying
to
find any experience with VGs on floats, and whether they help on
take-off.
I
have been told (not on this list) that VGs help with climb performance
because they create more lift at a given angle of attack as well. So if
that
is true, then they should also help shorten float take-offs.

But I can't find anyone that has used them on a floatplane.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's

In theory I don't think VGs are supposed to increase lift for a given
AOA,
but I could be wrong. If you are trying to get off the water faster, then
a
combination of increasing throat angle and adding VGs or cuffs seems like
the answer. The picture of Jack Weibs rebel riding on the tails looks
like
a

pretty low throat angle to me.
Just the observations of an inexperienced float pilot.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: STOL Cuff or VG's
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:23:30 -0800

Yes, when landing in rough water, I find it most important to
touch down near parallel to the waves, not nose high. It's coming
down from the step in big waves, where I can't seem to avoid a
beating, and don't think VG's or anything else will help me with
that.

It's just take-off that I care about. As you know, Bruce, in some
of these lakes, no problem landing, but the take-off run can be
much longer than we want, especially with a heavy load.

One of the local Elite builders got some VG's, but he is still a
long ways from flying, so will just have to wait and see how he
does.

Walter


-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Locked

Return to “Rebel Builders List”