elevator cables/cargo area

[Jesse Jenks]

Walter,
Isn't the Murphy supplied cover a hat section? You still have plenty of room
on either side to put large cargo? I plan to be packing lots of stuff in
there on occasion too, and it would be nice to be able to sleep there if the
weather gets really nasty. I would like to put the cables under the floor
with removable panels for inspection, but it's probably not feasible to put
holes in the carythroughs. Another idea would be to raise the entire floor
aft of the seats up 3/4" or so.
It seems a shame to have that 2 inches of space under the floor and then run
the elevator cables on top.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Montana Float Hydraulics/elevator cables
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:45:16 -0700

I have kept my rear baggage area totally clear from the seats
back, and it sure has come in handy many times with everything I
have stuffed back in there. Besides coolers, boxes and luggage, I
also sometimes carry around a big inflatable canoe in its
carrying case that takes up a large flat area. If I had pumps or
reservoirs, battery or other stuff there, it would definitely be
in my way. I just have the cover channels that MAM supplied for
the elevator cables, and while they have gained numerous small
dents, they still do their job.

Have to say, too, with all the baggage I keep hauling around
lately, I now have a better appreciation of my forward empty
weight c of g. Might not get up on the step quite as quickly, but
has always hauled off the water everything I could put into it. I
think I may just keep my battery in front of my firewall after
all.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:40 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Montana Float Hydraulics/elevator cables


Thanks. I was quite happy with how that arrangement
worked out.

Yes, everything stays in the duct until it reaches the
rear edge of the
baggage area. Not quite flat, but just a 3/4" covered
channel. I used a
couple of the fairleads supplied by Murphy to keep the
cables close to the
floor and away from the seatbelt attach point. The
channel supplied by
Murphy would be OK for the cables alone, but when you
also want to cover the
battery cable and 3 hydraulic lines, something wider is needed.

Al





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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Jesse !

If you want a flat floor that's good for sleeping, some builders
take a sheet of rigid blue insulating foam, and cut a groove down
the center to leave space for the 'hat' that covers the cables.

Pop it in, maybe a bit of velcro, and you've got a flat floor
that is warmer to sleep on, provides a bit of floatation and noise
dampening, and is actually a bit wider than the regular floor,
because it goes up and out (trim on an angle) over the side corner wraps !

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 27 September 2005 01:25 pm, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Walter,
Isn't the Murphy supplied cover a hat section? You still have plenty of

room

on either side to put large cargo? I plan to be packing lots of stuff in
there on occasion too, and it would be nice to be able to sleep there if

the

weather gets really nasty. I would like to put the cables under the floor
with removable panels for inspection, but it's probably not feasible to

put

holes in the carythroughs. Another idea would be to raise the entire floor
aft of the seats up 3/4" or so.
It seems a shame to have that 2 inches of space under the floor and then

run

the elevator cables on top.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Montana Float Hydraulics/elevator cables
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:45:16 -0700

I have kept my rear baggage area totally clear from the seats
back, and it sure has come in handy many times with everything I
have stuffed back in there. Besides coolers, boxes and luggage, I
also sometimes carry around a big inflatable canoe in its
carrying case that takes up a large flat area. If I had pumps or
reservoirs, battery or other stuff there, it would definitely be
in my way. I just have the cover channels that MAM supplied for
the elevator cables, and while they have gained numerous small
dents, they still do their job.

Have to say, too, with all the baggage I keep hauling around
lately, I now have a better appreciation of my forward empty
weight c of g. Might not get up on the step quite as quickly, but
has always hauled off the water everything I could put into it. I
think I may just keep my battery in front of my firewall after
all.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:40 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Montana Float Hydraulics/elevator cables


Thanks. I was quite happy with how that arrangement
worked out.

Yes, everything stays in the duct until it reaches the
rear edge of the
baggage area. Not quite flat, but just a 3/4" covered
channel. I used a
couple of the fairleads supplied by Murphy to keep the
cables close to the
floor and away from the seatbelt attach point. The
channel supplied by
Murphy would be OK for the cables alone, but when you
also want to cover the
battery cable and 3 hydraulic lines, something wider is needed.

Al





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[WALTER KLATT]

I have never slept in mine, but I've heard Bob's suggestion before and that should definitely work. As for that hat, mine is not the pointed witches hat piece that you see on the firewall, if that is what you are asking. There is a flatter cover piece that only sticks up and inch or so, and most soft packs and coolers can be put over top. Hard coolers fit on either side real nicely.

You can put cables underneath, I guess, but my concern would be the weight of the mountings and access panels. You would be surprised how all that adds up.

My real point was to keep that baggage clear, and how important that is. I have seen too many Rebels that have all kinds of stuff there like pumps, batteries, resevoirs, cables, ELT's, etc. that interfere with baggage placement and if you wanted to sleep there.

Mods and improvements are fun, but remember that they all cost in weight, and complexity, and are they really necessary. I think my Rebel is one of the lightest 0320 versions (925 with wheels and Warp Drive prop) out there, but if I built it again, I think I could still shave off another 20 pounds or so. I know of other Rebels (not Elites) that weigh 150 pounds more than mine, and that's a lot of fuel and passenger weight I am giving up. I would rather use that weight on an 0360 engine to get more hp.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:41 am
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area

Hi Jesse !

If you want a flat floor that's good for sleeping, some builders
take a sheet of rigid blue insulating foam, and cut a groove down
the center to leave space for the 'hat' that covers the cables.

Pop it in, maybe a bit of velcro, and you've got a flat floor
that is warmer to sleep on, provides a bit of floatation and noise
dampening, and is actually a bit wider than the regular floor,
because it goes up and out (trim on an angle) over the side corner
wraps !

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 27 September 2005 01:25 pm, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Walter,
Isn't the Murphy supplied cover a hat section? You still have

plenty of
room

on either side to put large cargo? I plan to be packing lots of

stuff in

there on occasion too, and it would be nice to be able to sleep

there if
the

weather gets really nasty. I would like to put the cables under

the floor

with removable panels for inspection, but it's probably not

feasible to
put

holes in the carythroughs. Another idea would be to raise the

entire floor

aft of the seats up 3/4" or so.
It seems a shame to have that 2 inches of space under the floor

and then
run

the elevator cables on top.
Jesse

From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Montana Float Hydraulics/elevator cables
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:45:16 -0700

I have kept my rear baggage area totally clear from the seats
back, and it sure has come in handy many times with everything I
have stuffed back in there. Besides coolers, boxes and luggage, I
also sometimes carry around a big inflatable canoe in its
carrying case that takes up a large flat area. If I had pumps or
reservoirs, battery or other stuff there, it would definitely be
in my way. I just have the cover channels that MAM supplied for
the elevator cables, and while they have gained numerous small
dents, they still do their job.

Have to say, too, with all the baggage I keep hauling around
lately, I now have a better appreciation of my forward empty
weight c of g. Might not get up on the step quite as quickly, but
has always hauled off the water everything I could put into it. I
think I may just keep my battery in front of my firewall after
all.

Walter


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[Jesse Jenks]

I like the foam idea. Low tech all the way, and you only have to put it in
when you need it. On the other hand, you have to know when you will need it.
I was thinking of a similar idea of making some custom shaped foam
mattresses that fit on either side of the hat. That probably wouldn't be
very good though because you would have a hard spot in the middle. Depends
on who is in there with you if you want a divider or not I guess.
I still would like to have a flat floor though. It's like having a pickup
truck with the bed divided in two. Les usable. I have a while to think about
it while I build the other wing.
Jesse

I have never slept in mine, but I've heard Bob's suggestion before and that
should definitely work. As for that hat, mine is not the pointed witches
hat piece that you see on the firewall, if that is what you are asking.
There is a flatter cover piece that only sticks up and inch or so, and most
soft packs and coolers can be put over top. Hard coolers fit on either side
real nicely.

You can put cables underneath, I guess, but my concern would be the weight
of the mountings and access panels. You would be surprised how all that
adds up.

My real point was to keep that baggage clear, and how important that is. I
have seen too many Rebels that have all kinds of stuff there like pumps,
batteries, resevoirs, cables, ELT's, etc. that interfere with baggage
placement and if you wanted to sleep there.

Mods and improvements are fun, but remember that they all cost in weight,
and complexity, and are they really necessary. I think my Rebel is one of
the lightest 0320 versions (925 with wheels and Warp Drive prop) out there,
but if I built it again, I think I could still shave off another 20 pounds
or so. I know of other Rebels (not Elites) that weigh 150 pounds more than
mine, and that's a lot of fuel and passenger weight I am giving up. I would
rather use that weight on an 0360 engine to get more hp.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:41 am
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area

Hi Jesse !

If you want a flat floor that's good for sleeping, some builders
take a sheet of rigid blue insulating foam, and cut a groove down
the center to leave space for the 'hat' that covers the cables.

Pop it in, maybe a bit of velcro, and you've got a flat floor
that is warmer to sleep on, provides a bit of floatation and noise
dampening, and is actually a bit wider than the regular floor,
because it goes up and out (trim on an angle) over the side corner
wraps !

......bobp

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[Bruce Georgen]

Ditto...Walter,

I agree with you about weight. All that "little" stuff adds up very quickly and an extra 100-150 lbs. can cut performance considerable.

My Rebel on wheels was 975 lbs. empty with spring gear (which I would not choose) and a metal Sensenich (I would not use again, either). Weight is every thing...every lbs. makes a difference when your in the business of defying gravity.


After flying the Rebel for several years, now on amphibs, there are things I would do different next time, all to reduce weight and improve performance which would be my top priority today. I have come close to taking out the nice interior I so tediously installed (got to weigh 35 lbs.)...just so my wife would go flying with me, which she has done less than i can count on one hand! Something you builders should think about. Just my 2 cents.

Bruce






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[Bob Fisher]

hi guys how much does a sensenich prop weigh? what about it`s efficiency
compared to a prince? say that would be a great way to save weight
where you don`t want it!

thoughts? bob fisher rebel 342 on amphibs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area

Ditto...Walter,

I agree with you about weight. All that "little" stuff adds up very

quickly and an extra 100-150 lbs. can cut performance considerable.

My Rebel on wheels was 975 lbs. empty with spring gear (which I would not

choose) and a metal Sensenich (I would not use again, either). Weight is
every thing...every lbs. makes a difference when your in the business of
defying gravity.

After flying the Rebel for several years, now on amphibs, there are things

I would do different next time, all to reduce weight and improve performance
which would be my top priority today. I have come close to taking out the
nice interior I so tediously installed (got to weigh 35 lbs.)...just so my
wife would go flying with me, which she has done less than i can count on
one hand! Something you builders should think about. Just my 2 cents.

Bruce






________________________________________
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A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com



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[Walter Klatt]

My Sensenich prop weighs 37 pounds. My Warp Drive weighed 12
pounds. Haven't tried a Prince prop, but best way to compare
would be to take off on water and fly side by side to compare
rpms and top speed. I have done this with others including the
MCaulys. I know after flying with me, Julius just replaced his
brand new MCauly with a Sensenich. My old 3 blade 72 inch Warp
Drive beat my Sensenich in climb and top speed (very slightly),
but not on take-off. I think the Warp Drive makes for a better
wheels plane prop, but not quite as good on water. Would love to
do some side by side comparisons with the Prince, but until then
wouldn't bet on anything.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:35 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area


hi guys how much does a sensenich prop weigh? what
about it`s efficiency
compared to a prince? say that would be a great
way to save weight
where you don`t want it!

thoughts? bob fisher rebel 342 on amphibs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area

Ditto...Walter,

I agree with you about weight. All that "little"

stuff adds up very
quickly and an extra 100-150 lbs. can cut performance
considerable.

My Rebel on wheels was 975 lbs. empty with spring

gear (which I would not
choose) and a metal Sensenich (I would not use again,
either). Weight is
every thing...every lbs. makes a difference when your
in the business of
defying gravity.

After flying the Rebel for several years, now on

amphibs, there are things
I would do different next time, all to reduce weight
and improve performance
which would be my top priority today. I have come
close to taking out the
nice interior I so tediously installed (got to weigh
35 lbs.)...just so my
wife would go flying with me, which she has done less
than i can count on
one hand! Something you builders should think about.
Just my 2 cents.

Bruce






________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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[Robert and Olga Johnson]

Hi Bob: I had a Sensenich prop on my Rebel - 74"-58P which weighed 36 lbs.
Total empty aircraft weight was 978 lbs on standard bungee style gear (Wayne
O's die springs). This also included a 1200 Odyssey battery at around 30 lbs
behind the luggage area. My reasoning for the heavy prop was to improve the
idling smoothness of the 160HP O320 H2AD - which it did. The aircraft is now
on Full Lotus straight floats with a prop change. - Perhaps Neil (new owner)
can jump in here with an update and some performance numbers - Bob J
(formerly Rebel 652)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area

hi guys how much does a sensenich prop weigh? what about it`s
efficiency
compared to a prince? say that would be a great way to save weight
where you don`t want it!

thoughts? bob fisher rebel 342 on amphibs

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[Rick Harper]

G'day Walt !

How many hours do you have on the Warp Drive prop ???? ... our
lasted 11 hrs - from NEW before it cracked at all 3 blade roots !!! :o(

Rick
541R

PS - What engine & compression are you running ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: elevator cables/cargo area


My Sensenich prop weighs 37 pounds. My Warp Drive weighed 12
pounds. Haven't tried a Prince prop, but best way to compare
would be to take off on water and fly side by side to compare
rpms and top speed. I have done this with others including the
MCaulys. I know after flying with me, Julius just replaced his
brand new MCauly with a Sensenich. My old 3 blade 72 inch Warp
Drive beat my Sensenich in climb and top speed (very slightly),
but not on take-off. I think the Warp Drive makes for a better
wheels plane prop, but not quite as good on water. Would love to
do some side by side comparisons with the Prince, but until then
wouldn't bet on anything.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:35 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area


hi guys how much does a sensenich prop weigh? what
about it`s efficiency
compared to a prince? say that would be a great
way to save weight
where you don`t want it!

thoughts? bob fisher rebel 342 on amphibs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area

Ditto...Walter,

I agree with you about weight. All that "little"

stuff adds up very
quickly and an extra 100-150 lbs. can cut performance
considerable.

My Rebel on wheels was 975 lbs. empty with spring

gear (which I would not
choose) and a metal Sensenich (I would not use again,
either). Weight is
every thing...every lbs. makes a difference when your
in the business of
defying gravity.

After flying the Rebel for several years, now on

amphibs, there are things
I would do different next time, all to reduce weight
and improve performance
which would be my top priority today. I have come
close to taking out the
nice interior I so tediously installed (got to weigh
35 lbs.)...just so my
wife would go flying with me, which she has done less
than i can count on
one hand! Something you builders should think about.
Just my 2 cents.

Bruce






________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

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[Walter Klatt]

I had 141 hours on my Warp before I changed it to the Sensenich
and no sign of cracking. I know of a local here that put on
several hundred hours on his Warp Drive after the cracks
appeared. Apparently the cracks are only on the aluminum covered
collars at the root. I have heard, too, that the high compression
engines with the stronger pulses are more prone.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rick Harper
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:39 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area


G'day Walt !

How many hours do you have on the Warp Drive prop
???? ... our
lasted 11 hrs - from NEW before it cracked at all 3
blade roots !!! :o(

Rick
541R

PS - What engine & compression are you running ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: elevator cables/cargo area


My Sensenich prop weighs 37 pounds. My Warp Drive weighed 12
pounds. Haven't tried a Prince prop, but best way to compare
would be to take off on water and fly side by side to compare
rpms and top speed. I have done this with others
including the
MCaulys. I know after flying with me, Julius just
replaced his
brand new MCauly with a Sensenich. My old 3 blade 72
inch Warp
Drive beat my Sensenich in climb and top speed (very
slightly),
but not on take-off. I think the Warp Drive makes
for a better
wheels plane prop, but not quite as good on water.
Would love to
do some side by side comparisons with the Prince,
but until then
wouldn't bet on anything.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Fisher
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:35 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area


hi guys how much does a sensenich prop weigh? what
about it`s efficiency
compared to a prince? say that would be a great
way to save weight
where you don`t want it!

thoughts? bob fisher rebel 342 on amphibs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: elevator cables/cargo area

Ditto...Walter,

I agree with you about weight. All that "little"

stuff adds up very
quickly and an extra 100-150 lbs. can cut performance
considerable.

My Rebel on wheels was 975 lbs. empty with spring

gear (which I would not
choose) and a metal Sensenich (I would not use again,
either). Weight is
every thing...every lbs. makes a difference when your
in the business of
defying gravity.

After flying the Rebel for several years, now on

amphibs, there are things
I would do different next time, all to reduce weight
and improve performance
which would be my top priority today. I have come
close to taking out the
nice interior I so tediously installed (got to weigh
35 lbs.)...just so my
wife would go flying with me, which she has done less
than i can count on
one hand! Something you builders should think about.
Just my 2 cents.

Bruce






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