float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves. Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi andy i park with the nose gear pointing aft always then the
pressure can bleed off which it does and nothing happens

i`m going to make a set of the tubes that go over the rod on the cylinder
just for when i push backwards
what material did you use? aluminum tubing? how do you make sure it`s

out

before takoff?

bob fisher rebel 342 on 1800 amphibs parry sound ont


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the same

as

an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there

has

not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.

almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the

last

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours in

70

degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the first
warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.

question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave
100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings leaked.
for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed
same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the

nose

wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them in

when

i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in and push
it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find the

problem

tomorrow.

andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


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[Walter Klatt]

My 0320 conical mount also has no suffix. I had it overhauled as
a non certified engine, so it probably doesn't resemble anything
now. It came set up for a constant speed, but I converted it for
FP. I always thought it originally came out of a Tri-Pacer.

I always release the pressure on the selector valve and keep it
in the neutral position after the gear is cycled up or down. That
way I don't put any pressure on the lines or fittings. Just
before take-off, I do have to pump them up again, so the wheels
don't drag in the water. I use the standard MAM lines, and no
problems so far. I actually preferred the clear lines, because I
could get all the air out of the system, without any messy
bleeding.

I only use the front locks when pulling it in the hangar. With
the wheels castered back as in the moving forward position, the
gear will not collapse, but if they are castered to the front as
when pulling back, they most certainly will. I use PVC pipe for
locks, cut just enough so they pop in place around the cylinder
shaft.

As for leaks, I did have some initially on some fittings, but
managed to fix them all. In some cases, I had to change the
little brass collar to a different style from a local automotive
shop, that worked better for me.

One thing to watch for, is make sure your rubber hose from the
pump to the selector valve is not fuel line as MAM apparently
shipped to some builders. Can't remember the exact PSI, but I
think mine was 600. Bruce G. would know as he found that out the
hard way, after we flew into a remote alpine lake last summer and
it sat there in the hot sun with his selector valve not in
neutral.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Andy Bowman
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 5:18 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320




hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in
1956 came from a money. it's model designation is
0320. there is no suffix. it is the same as an
0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since
the 60's there has not been an 0-320 mooney, but the
logs that came with this freshly overhauled 0-320
definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.



almost all our lakes have become soft water, as
opposed to ice in the last 3 days. in fact i would
have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop
ramp for 3 hours in 70 degree temps. we finished our
float install in oct so this was the first warm high
sun angle day she has sat out in.



question for the group???? do you release the
preassure on you hydro in these conditions? or do you
park with nose wheels castered aft and leave 100lbs on
the system??? that is what i did and one of the
fittings leaked. for those who have not done this, i
took off with 0 preassure and landed same. no problem.
i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the
nose wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not
forget to put them in when i backed the plane into the
hangar. i decided to put the locks in and push it in
frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to
find the problem tomorrow.



andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


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[Drew Dalgleish]

My hydraulic system loses pressure after about 10minutes I replaced the
lines with truck air brake lines and fittings I've also replaced both the
pump check valves and there's no apparent leaks so at least one of my
cylinders must have an internal leak. I can live with it the way it is now
I just have to remember to give a short stroke on the pump when on final.
Maybe a little bit of air in the system would keep the pressure from going
too high when parked.

At 09:46 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves. Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

Drew





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[Andy Bowman]

hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the same as an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there has not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.



almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the last 3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours in 70 degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the first warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.



question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave 100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings leaked. for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the nose wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them in when i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in and push it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find the problem tomorrow.



andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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[Bob Fisher]

hi andy i park with the nose gear pointing aft always then the
pressure can bleed off which it does and nothing happens

i`m going to make a set of the tubes that go over the rod on the cylinder
just for when i push backwards
what material did you use? aluminum tubing? how do you make sure it`s out
before takoff?

bob fisher rebel 342 on 1800 amphibs parry sound ont


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

hi,



My 0-320, 150 hp, non-dynafocal mount, engine built in 1956 came from a

money. it's model designation is 0320. there is no suffix. it is the same as
an 0-320-a1 i think. you are probably correct that since the 60's there has
not been an 0-320 mooney, but the logs that came with this freshly
overhauled 0-320 definitely say that it spent it's younger days flying
faster than it is now in my christavia mk=1.

almost all our lakes have become soft water, as opposed to ice in the last

3 days. in fact i would have done my first 2005 water landing, but, i lost
hydraulic preassure after the plane sat on a blacktop ramp for 3 hours in 70
degree temps. we finished our float install in oct so this was the first
warm high sun angle day she has sat out in.

question for the group???? do you release the preassure on you hydro in

these conditions? or do you park with nose wheels castered aft and leave
100lbs on the system??? that is what i did and one of the fittings leaked.
for those who have not done this, i took off with 0 preassure and landed
same. no problem. i do wish i'd brought the "backup" pvc locks for the nose
wheels, but i left them on my ramp so i would not forget to put them in when
i backed the plane into the hangar. i decided to put the locks in and push
it in frontwards when i got back to my hangar. i'll try to find the problem
tomorrow.

andy

1088 amphibs

christavia mk=1

mich


---------------------------------
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[Legeorgen]

I have found even with the selector valve in the neutral position the
pressure can built as the temperature changes. I've come to the hanger some days
and found the lines as high as 450 psi.

As Walter said, you should make sure you were shipped hydraulic hose and not
fuel line from MAM, or you will be cleaning hydraulic fluid from weeping
rivets and overlaps for the next year. The stuff is like Corrosion X...or even
better.

Bruce




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[Ken]

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves. Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

snip





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[Drew Dalgleish]

Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then any pressure change can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change the lever and give a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson doesn't decide to move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system does
not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's amphibs
would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I kinda
wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves. Just
a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to over
600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after that
and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure glad
I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you have
the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

snip





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Drew





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[Legeorgen]

"Or just leave the selector in the up position."


And make sure your nose gear is castered back and/or your PVC locks are on
or you will take a nose dive! Been there and done that too.


Bruce




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Even when put in the up position you are going to build pressure from
sun/temp on the other side of the system back to the hydraulic pump. Putting
in neutral, as Walter does, only protects the line from the selector to the
pump. Neutral is actually a locked postion so now you have pressure building
in both the up and down lines as neither is now vented back to tank. The
only thing I use the neutral position for is removing lines... as very
little fluid loss since no air in means no fluid out.

Ken's probably hit the nail on the head...we probably should be teeing a
pressure relief valve, set at about 300 psi, into the line from the pump to
the selector valve and then be sure to leave the selector either up or down
to protect the entire system at all times.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then any pressure change

can

vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change the lever and give

a

pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson doesn't decide to

move

your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be worth installing a
pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my hydraulic system

does

not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM pump. Howard's

amphibs

would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger as well...so I

kinda

wonder if you guys have internally leaking cylinders or check valves.

Just

a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the pressure from 100 to

over

600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd left it a Zero after

that

and went into the hanger today +12 to find the pressure at 550psi! Sure

glad

I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had some preflared c/w
fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say is YES, once you

have

the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero and check the gauge
often.

Wayne

snip





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Drew





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[Walter Klatt]

I know mine does not hold pressure for any length of time, but
there are no external leaks. Has not been a problem for me, but I
just need to remember to pump up a couple of strokes prior to
take-off on water so my mains don't drag.

In fact, after reading this, I'm thinking I prefer some slight
internal leak through check valves, cylinder O rings or wherever
it is, so that I don't get any pressure build-ups in the heat. I
guess that's why I have never seen it on mine and no external
leaks. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do always
relieve pressure after cycling the gear and leave the selector in
neutral. I know some do it differently, but I think I'll stick
with my method, as it has served me well so far.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then
any pressure change can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change
the lever and give a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson
doesn't decide to move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be

worth installing a

pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

I can tell you, as I did earlier this winter that my

hydraulic system does

not bleed down what so ever on my skis using the MAM

pump. Howard's amphibs

would stay at pressure all winter long in the hanger

as well...so I kinda

wonder if you guys have internally leaking

cylinders or check valves. Just

a short park in the sun in -15c weather took the

pressure from 100 to over

600psi shinning on my black stratoflex hoses. I'd

left it a Zero after that

and went into the hanger today +12 to find the

pressure at 550psi! Sure glad

I went with all solid (Stainless - only cause I had

some preflared c/w

fittings that worked out) lines. Guess all I can say

is YES, once you have

the airplane parked where you want it bleed to zero

and check the gauge

often.

Wayne

snip





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Drew





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[Bob Fisher]

hi guys thanks everyone for all the interesting coments i guess this is
why this forum is sooooo valuable bob fisher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320

I know mine does not hold pressure for any length of time, but
there are no external leaks. Has not been a problem for me, but I
just need to remember to pump up a couple of strokes prior to
take-off on water so my mains don't drag.

In fact, after reading this, I'm thinking I prefer some slight
internal leak through check valves, cylinder O rings or wherever
it is, so that I don't get any pressure build-ups in the heat. I
guess that's why I have never seen it on mine and no external
leaks. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do always
relieve pressure after cycling the gear and leave the selector in
neutral. I know some do it differently, but I think I'll stick
with my method, as it has served me well so far.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float question and mooney with lyc 0-320


Or just leave the selector in the up position. Then
any pressure change can
vent back to the tank. Just have to remember to change
the lever and give a
pump before moving. And hope some helpful lineperson
doesn't decide to move
your plane while you're gone.

At 10:43 PM 4/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:

So what this thread is saying is that it would be

worth installing a

pressure relief valve if using plastic hydraulic lines...
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

hydraulic system does

pump. Howard's amphibs

as well...so I kinda

cylinders or check valves. Just

pressure from 100 to over

left it a Zero after that

pressure at 550psi! Sure glad

some preflared c/w

is YES, once you have

and check the gauge

snip





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-----------
Drew





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