Wing building

[mbetti]

On the subject of stingers. As simple as it may be a person needs to get a good procedure going, lots of holes!
So can a person just start drilling to no.30 from the start or is it still advisable to drill 40 then 30?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Ken]

FWIW I think it is always advisable to first drill #40 as I seem to get
rounder holes and better positioning. The #40 clecos pull things
together and position and hold the material while drilling #30. I
consider this especially important on long runs like stringers. A drill
stop is a good idea for stringers. It is easy to let the drill go in too
far and nick/ruin the far side of the stringer...
I found that a piece of rubber hose on the drill bit worked about as
well as the commercial spring stops but you have to keep shavings from
accumulating on the end of the stop.
Ken

mbetti@up.net wrote:

On the subject of stingers. As simple as it may be a person needs to get a good procedure going, lots of holes!
So can a person just start drilling to no.30 from the start or is it still advisable to drill 40 then 30?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[mbetti]

??
I'm half way through the pages of the manual for the wings and just starting on the skins. I read to the end of the manual several times to get it all in my head so as not to miss something. I find a couple problems with the rest of the assembly.

1)the bottom tank skin is on top of the bottom skin but they top tank skin is under the top skin. In other words the tank skin is under on the top and over on the bottom, is this correct?

2)The manaul never says to drill the skins to the main spar. No matter how hard I read into this I don't see this being done. When do drill the main spar?

3)Do I understand that the top skin is installed with the stringers dangling, proseal them in place over the tank, then remove the top skin leaving the stringers behind. Install the tank cover, then the top skin last?????

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Mike, I really hate giving assembly order directions as I don't generally
follow what's in writing! What works for me, may very well not for you.

You can do the wing/tank overlap in either direction, but generally looks
better to have the heavier .040 tank skin on TOP of the wing skin.

The manual must tell you to drill the main spar somewhere. It would be after
you have placed the leading edge skin (since it has the holes in it!). You
can drill the main spar along the bottom anytime as long as you have the
wing as close to level as you can. When you go to do the top of the spar it
is critical to have the wings absolutely level with no twist. Amazing how
little you need to have the wing off level to move the hole position a LONG
ways at the spar.

As for the stringers on or off the tank...if you have to have a preclose
inspection like us boys in Canada. Stringers prosealed and riveted to the
tank skin, so the top skin can be removed for inspections. Or you can do
this on the bottom skin where the wing is flat making it easier to slip the
skin in under the tank skin. Just make sure to either slip a shim in between
the tank skin and the stringer where the wing skin will slide under to keep
the area clean, or actually installed the wings skins with cleco's
temporarily.

If you don't need and inspection, with the Rebel or Elite I would do the
wing skin to stringer riveting first and then when you have the tank all
"bathtub'd" out and read for the top tanks skin just proseal the
stringers/ribs/bulkheads in one shot. To do it this way though you must make
holding clips between the wing skin and the fuel tanks outermost rib. These
clips are duplicated off the tank skin to give the proper spacing to hold
the rib so you can proseal the stringer holes shut and let harden. This way
you only need to put a bead of proseal around the entire perimeter before
plunking the tank skin down to be guaranteed a good seal.

Confused yet?? Will see if I can find you some pictures!

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: wing building

??
I'm half way through the pages of the manual for the wings and just

starting on the skins. I read to the end of the manual several times to get
it all in my head so as not to miss something. I find a couple problems with
the rest of the assembly.

1)the bottom tank skin is on top of the bottom skin but they top tank skin

is under the top skin. In other words the tank skin is under on the top and
over on the bottom, is this correct?

2)The manaul never says to drill the skins to the main spar. No matter how

hard I read into this I don't see this being done. When do drill the main
spar?

3)Do I understand that the top skin is installed with the stringers

dangling, proseal them in place over the tank, then remove the top skin
leaving the stringers behind. Install the tank cover, then the top skin
last?????

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Alan Hepburn]

1) On my instructions, which are older (#587) it's fairly clear that the
tank skin goes next to the spar, and the LE skin goes on top of the tank
skin, top and bottom.

2) Again, my instuructions call for this just after you drill the bottom
skin into the rear spar, and just before you fit the doubler W-601 around
the strut bolt inspection covers, then a couple of instructions further down
for the top skin.

3) Yep, and I found that it helped to attach the stringers to a piece of
scap going from the main spar to the rear spar outside the tank area,
otherwise the tank end ribs tend to get a big wow in them and pull the
stringers out of line.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: wing building

??
I'm half way through the pages of the manual for the wings and just

starting on the skins. I read to the end of the manual several times to get
it all in my head so as not to miss something. I find a couple problems with
the rest of the assembly.

1)the bottom tank skin is on top of the bottom skin but they top tank skin

is under the top skin. In other words the tank skin is under on the top and
over on the bottom, is this correct?

2)The manaul never says to drill the skins to the main spar. No matter how

hard I read into this I don't see this being done. When do drill the main
spar?

3)Do I understand that the top skin is installed with the stringers

dangling, proseal them in place over the tank, then remove the top skin
leaving the stringers behind. Install the tank cover, then the top skin
last?????

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Betti]

Thanks for the help Wayne, I need to look at this again tomorrow after some
sleep.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

Mike, I really hate giving assembly order directions as I don't generally
follow what's in writing! What works for me, may very well not for you.

You can do the wing/tank overlap in either direction, but generally looks
better to have the heavier .040 tank skin on TOP of the wing skin.

The manual must tell you to drill the main spar somewhere. It would be

after

you have placed the leading edge skin (since it has the holes in it!). You
can drill the main spar along the bottom anytime as long as you have the
wing as close to level as you can. When you go to do the top of the spar

it

is critical to have the wings absolutely level with no twist. Amazing how
little you need to have the wing off level to move the hole position a

LONG

ways at the spar.

As for the stringers on or off the tank...if you have to have a preclose
inspection like us boys in Canada. Stringers prosealed and riveted to the
tank skin, so the top skin can be removed for inspections. Or you can do
this on the bottom skin where the wing is flat making it easier to slip

the

skin in under the tank skin. Just make sure to either slip a shim in

between

the tank skin and the stringer where the wing skin will slide under to

keep

the area clean, or actually installed the wings skins with cleco's
temporarily.

If you don't need and inspection, with the Rebel or Elite I would do the
wing skin to stringer riveting first and then when you have the tank all
"bathtub'd" out and read for the top tanks skin just proseal the
stringers/ribs/bulkheads in one shot. To do it this way though you must

make

holding clips between the wing skin and the fuel tanks outermost rib.

These

clips are duplicated off the tank skin to give the proper spacing to hold
the rib so you can proseal the stringer holes shut and let harden. This

way

you only need to put a bead of proseal around the entire perimeter before
plunking the tank skin down to be guaranteed a good seal.

Confused yet?? Will see if I can find you some pictures!

Wayne



----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: wing building

??
I'm half way through the pages of the manual for the wings and just

starting on the skins. I read to the end of the manual several times to

get

it all in my head so as not to miss something. I find a couple problems

with

the rest of the assembly.

1)the bottom tank skin is on top of the bottom skin but they top tank

skin

is under the top skin. In other words the tank skin is under on the top

and

over on the bottom, is this correct?

2)The manaul never says to drill the skins to the main spar. No matter

how

hard I read into this I don't see this being done. When do drill the main
spar?

3)Do I understand that the top skin is installed with the stringers

dangling, proseal them in place over the tank, then remove the top skin
leaving the stringers behind. Install the tank cover, then the top skin
last?????

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[mbetti]

Al,
1) OK with the leading edge skin but what about the main skin, is it on top the tank cover on top and under the tank cover on the bottom?

2) Thanks for catching that one, my instructions are the same.

Mike Betti
771 Elite
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:54:19 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

1) On my instructions, which are older (#587) it's fairly clear that the
tank skin goes next to the spar, and the LE skin goes on top of the tank
skin, top and bottom.

2) Again, my instuructions call for this just after you drill the bottom
skin into the rear spar, and just before you fit the doubler W-601 around
the strut bolt inspection covers, then a couple of instructions further down
for the top skin.

3) Yep, and I found that it helped to attach the stringers to a piece of
scap going from the main spar to the rear spar outside the tank area,
otherwise the tank end ribs tend to get a big wow in them and pull the
stringers out of line.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: wing building

??
I'm half way through the pages of the manual for the wings and just

starting on the skins. I read to the end of the manual several times to get
it all in my head so as not to miss something. I find a couple problems with
the rest of the assembly.

1)the bottom tank skin is on top of the bottom skin but they top tank skin

is under the top skin. In other words the tank skin is under on the top and
over on the bottom, is this correct?

2)The manaul never says to drill the skins to the main spar. No matter how

hard I read into this I don't see this being done. When do drill the main
spar?

3)Do I understand that the top skin is installed with the stringers

dangling, proseal them in place over the tank, then remove the top skin
leaving the stringers behind. Install the tank cover, then the top skin
last?????

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Alan Hepburn]

1) The main skin is under the tank skin both on top and underneath. Now,
it gets fitted after the tank skin, and at that point the leading edge skin
is already riveted to the main spar, so with all the Proseal in the tank
area, it can get tight slipping the main skin between the tank skin/leading
edge skin and the ribs/spar. So put some pieces of waxed scrap an these
areas when you do the Proseal job, then when the Proseal is well set, pull
out the scrap. It's still tight getting the skin in, but not as tight as it
would be if you didn't take this precaution, I imagine.

BTW, there are a couple of rivets on the rear spar that come right over the
aileron hinges, so close that you can't get the rivets in far enough to
start pulling them. There appear to be a couple of options - a) adjust the
drill pattern to avoid these spots (I was too late for this) or b) loosen
the aileron hinge while you pull the rivet. If you go with option (b),
you'll be glad if you used Wayne's plate nut method of attaching the hinges.
I didn't, and it was a pain getting at the nuts on the inside of the rear
spar.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

Al,
1) OK with the leading edge skin but what about the main skin, is it on

top the tank cover on top and under the tank cover on the bottom?

2) Thanks for catching that one, my instructions are the same.

Mike Betti
771 Elite
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:54:19 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

1) On my instructions, which are older (#587) it's fairly clear that the
tank skin goes next to the spar, and the LE skin goes on top of the tank
skin, top and bottom.

2) Again, my instuructions call for this just after you drill the bottom
skin into the rear spar, and just before you fit the doubler W-601 around
the strut bolt inspection covers, then a couple of instructions further

down

for the top skin.

3) Yep, and I found that it helped to attach the stringers to a piece of
scap going from the main spar to the rear spar outside the tank area,
otherwise the tank end ribs tend to get a big wow in them and pull the
stringers out of line.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: wing building

??
I'm half way through the pages of the manual for the wings and just

starting on the skins. I read to the end of the manual several times to

get

it all in my head so as not to miss something. I find a couple problems

with

the rest of the assembly.

1)the bottom tank skin is on top of the bottom skin but they top tank

skin

is under the top skin. In other words the tank skin is under on the top

and

over on the bottom, is this correct?

2)The manaul never says to drill the skins to the main spar. No matter

how

hard I read into this I don't see this being done. When do drill the main
spar?

3)Do I understand that the top skin is installed with the stringers

dangling, proseal them in place over the tank, then remove the top skin
leaving the stringers behind. Install the tank cover, then the top skin
last?????

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Betti]

Big delema today building wing. Screwed up front spar drilling :(
..............
Instructions say on leading skin installation to measure 1 9/16" to front
attach point and drill front spar. Then install skin on other side of wing
and go through same process of fastening ribs and then drilling front spar.
Well, when the time came to fasten both sides of the leading edge skin, the
spar holes on the top don't line up with the bottom. The procedure didn't
seem right to me up to this point and the measurement to the front spar
isn't easily made. Seemed pretty hard to actually expect the two sides to
line up, that is if I knew that was what was expected. It looks like I can
fudge the holes and get a 1/2 of hole to line up top and bottom at the same
time. I was thinking of drilling to 1512 rivets and they should round out
the 2 holes. Has other builders had this issue and what fix?
Also, what is the best way of getting the leading edge skin on. Pretty tight
getting is folded over to the other side. I don't know if maybe it will be
easier to install to bottom first and then wrap around to the top?
Mike Betti
771Elite


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

1) The main skin is under the tank skin both on top and underneath. Now,
it gets fitted after the tank skin, and at that point the leading edge

skin

is already riveted to the main spar, so with all the Proseal in the tank
area, it can get tight slipping the main skin between the tank

skin/leading

edge skin and the ribs/spar. So put some pieces of waxed scrap an these
areas when you do the Proseal job, then when the Proseal is well set, pull
out the scrap. It's still tight getting the skin in, but not as tight as

it

would be if you didn't take this precaution, I imagine.

BTW, there are a couple of rivets on the rear spar that come right over

the

aileron hinges, so close that you can't get the rivets in far enough to
start pulling them. There appear to be a couple of options - a) adjust

the

drill pattern to avoid these spots (I was too late for this) or b) loosen
the aileron hinge while you pull the rivet. If you go with option (b),
you'll be glad if you used Wayne's plate nut method of attaching the

hinges.

I didn't, and it was a pain getting at the nuts on the inside of the rear
spar.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

Al,
1) OK with the leading edge skin but what about the main skin, is it on

top the tank cover on top and under the tank cover on the bottom?

2) Thanks for catching that one, my instructions are the same.

Mike Betti
771 Elite
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:54:19 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

1) On my instructions, which are older (#587) it's fairly clear that

the

tank skin goes next to the spar, and the LE skin goes on top of the

tank

skin, top and bottom.

2) Again, my instuructions call for this just after you drill the

bottom

skin into the rear spar, and just before you fit the doubler W-601

around

the strut bolt inspection covers, then a couple of instructions further

down

for the top skin.

3) Yep, and I found that it helped to attach the stringers to a piece

of

scap going from the main spar to the rear spar outside the tank area,
otherwise the tank end ribs tend to get a big wow in them and pull the
stringers out of line.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: wing building

starting on the skins. I read to the end of the manual several times to

get

it all in my head so as not to miss something. I find a couple problems

with

the rest of the assembly.

skin

is under the top skin. In other words the tank skin is under on the top

and

over on the bottom, is this correct?

matter

how

hard I read into this I don't see this being done. When do drill the

main

spar? dangling, proseal them in place over the tank, then remove the top skin
leaving the stringers behind. Install the tank cover, then the top skin
last?????


-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[David Ricker]

Mike

It is a bit late for your first wing but when we encountered this we made a
piece of angle to bolt to the wing attach bracket that located the skin relative
to the spar and we held the skin tight to it with a bungee (hooked over a
cleco). This ensured the skin was in the same place for the top & bottom
drilling.

Your idea of going to the larger rivet is good to eat up some of the difference.

As for getting the skin on, it is certainly a bear to wrestle on the Elite, I
don't remember if we did the top or bottom first but the final close will be the
top since the bottom of the tanks get done first. The center is where to start
putting in clecos and after the first one or two it is a lot easier. Sure would
be easier if the skin was bent more to the shape of the wing profile.....

Cheers,

Dave
elite583.cjb.net



Mike Betti wrote:

Big delema today building wing. Screwed up front spar drilling :(
..............
Instructions say on leading skin installation to measure 1 9/16" to front
attach point and drill front spar. Then install skin on other side of wing
and go through same process of fastening ribs and then drilling front spar.
Well, when the time came to fasten both sides of the leading edge skin, the
spar holes on the top don't line up with the bottom. The procedure didn't
seem right to me up to this point and the measurement to the front spar
isn't easily made. Seemed pretty hard to actually expect the two sides to
line up, that is if I knew that was what was expected. It looks like I can
fudge the holes and get a 1/2 of hole to line up top and bottom at the same
time. I was thinking of drilling to 1512 rivets and they should round out
the 2 holes. Has other builders had this issue and what fix?
Also, what is the best way of getting the leading edge skin on. Pretty tight
getting is folded over to the other side. I don't know if maybe it will be
easier to install to bottom first and then wrap around to the top?
Mike Betti
771Elite

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

1) The main skin is under the tank skin both on top and underneath. Now,
it gets fitted after the tank skin, and at that point the leading edge

skin

is already riveted to the main spar, so with all the Proseal in the tank
area, it can get tight slipping the main skin between the tank

skin/leading

edge skin and the ribs/spar. So put some pieces of waxed scrap an these
areas when you do the Proseal job, then when the Proseal is well set, pull
out the scrap. It's still tight getting the skin in, but not as tight as

it

would be if you didn't take this precaution, I imagine.

BTW, there are a couple of rivets on the rear spar that come right over

the

aileron hinges, so close that you can't get the rivets in far enough to
start pulling them. There appear to be a couple of options - a) adjust

the

drill pattern to avoid these spots (I was too late for this) or b) loosen
the aileron hinge while you pull the rivet. If you go with option (b),
you'll be glad if you used Wayne's plate nut method of attaching the

hinges.

I didn't, and it was a pain getting at the nuts on the inside of the rear
spar.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

Al,
1) OK with the leading edge skin but what about the main skin, is it on

top the tank cover on top and under the tank cover on the bottom?

2) Thanks for catching that one, my instructions are the same.

Mike Betti
771 Elite
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:54:19 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

the

tank

bottom

around

down

of

get

with

skin

and

matter

how

main

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Alan Hepburn]

Mike:

It's been a while, but as I recollect, I put a bolt in the attach fitting
which stuck out level with the LE and measured to the centre of the bolt.
When I cam to do the top, I clecoed the holes in the bottom of the LE spar,
thus avoiding your problem. I don't suppose ther'e any way you can use the
miss-drilled spar for the second wing? I'd have to think that one through.

I think I used carriage straps every second rib or so to pull the skin in,
but it is a bear. Drilling the ribs was no fun either, especially for my
wife, who was underneath, poking the ribs around and bracing them with a
chunk of wood!

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

Big delema today building wing. Screwed up front spar drilling :(
..............
Instructions say on leading skin installation to measure 1 9/16" to front
attach point and drill front spar. Then install skin on other side of wing
and go through same process of fastening ribs and then drilling front

spar.

Well, when the time came to fasten both sides of the leading edge skin,

the

spar holes on the top don't line up with the bottom. The procedure didn't
seem right to me up to this point and the measurement to the front spar
isn't easily made. Seemed pretty hard to actually expect the two sides to
line up, that is if I knew that was what was expected. It looks like I can
fudge the holes and get a 1/2 of hole to line up top and bottom at the

same

time. I was thinking of drilling to 1512 rivets and they should round out
the 2 holes. Has other builders had this issue and what fix?
Also, what is the best way of getting the leading edge skin on. Pretty

tight

getting is folded over to the other side. I don't know if maybe it will be
easier to install to bottom first and then wrap around to the top?
Mike Betti
771Elite


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

1) The main skin is under the tank skin both on top and underneath.

Now,

it gets fitted after the tank skin, and at that point the leading edge

skin

is already riveted to the main spar, so with all the Proseal in the tank
area, it can get tight slipping the main skin between the tank

skin/leading

edge skin and the ribs/spar. So put some pieces of waxed scrap an these
areas when you do the Proseal job, then when the Proseal is well set,

pull

out the scrap. It's still tight getting the skin in, but not as tight

as

it

would be if you didn't take this precaution, I imagine.

BTW, there are a couple of rivets on the rear spar that come right over

the

aileron hinges, so close that you can't get the rivets in far enough to
start pulling them. There appear to be a couple of options - a) adjust

the

drill pattern to avoid these spots (I was too late for this) or b)

loosen

the aileron hinge while you pull the rivet. If you go with option (b),
you'll be glad if you used Wayne's plate nut method of attaching the

hinges.

I didn't, and it was a pain getting at the nuts on the inside of the

rear

spar.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

Al,
1) OK with the leading edge skin but what about the main skin, is it

on

top the tank cover on top and under the tank cover on the bottom?

2) Thanks for catching that one, my instructions are the same.

Mike Betti
771 Elite
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:54:19 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

the

tank

bottom

around

further

down

of

the

to

get

problems

with

tank

skin

top

and

matter

how

main

skin

skin

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Warren & Marg Montgomery]

If I recall correctly I clamped a piece of plywood to the nose ribs with
the rib profile so that after a coupel of holes they remained true for
drilling.
Also butted a 3/4" x 2" piece of ply from spar to tip of nose rib before
cranking up the strap tension, notched this piece to allow for rivets
Also braced with a piece of ply from main to rear spar
Cutting 3/4" ply to the inside nose rib profile may solve all this at
one go???
I do know it wan't fun but after a lot of malt nector I now forget the
details ;-)
Warren

Alan Hepburn wrote:

Mike:

It's been a while, but as I recollect, I put a bolt in the attach fitting
which stuck out level with the LE and measured to the centre of the bolt.
When I cam to do the top, I clecoed the holes in the bottom of the LE spar,
thus avoiding your problem. I don't suppose ther'e any way you can use the
miss-drilled spar for the second wing? I'd have to think that one through.

I think I used carriage straps every second rib or so to pull the skin in,
but it is a bear. Drilling the ribs was no fun either, especially for my
wife, who was underneath, poking the ribs around and bracing them with a
chunk of wood!

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

Big delema today building wing. Screwed up front spar drilling :(
..............
Instructions say on leading skin installation to measure 1 9/16" to front
attach point and drill front spar. Then install skin on other side of wing
and go through same process of fastening ribs and then drilling front

spar.

Well, when the time came to fasten both sides of the leading edge skin,

the

spar holes on the top don't line up with the bottom. The procedure didn't
seem right to me up to this point and the measurement to the front spar
isn't easily made. Seemed pretty hard to actually expect the two sides to
line up, that is if I knew that was what was expected. It looks like I can
fudge the holes and get a 1/2 of hole to line up top and bottom at the

same

time. I was thinking of drilling to 1512 rivets and they should round out
the 2 holes. Has other builders had this issue and what fix?
Also, what is the best way of getting the leading edge skin on. Pretty

tight

getting is folded over to the other side. I don't know if maybe it will be
easier to install to bottom first and then wrap around to the top?
Mike Betti
771Elite


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

1) The main skin is under the tank skin both on top and underneath.

Now,

it gets fitted after the tank skin, and at that point the leading edge

skin

is already riveted to the main spar, so with all the Proseal in the tank
area, it can get tight slipping the main skin between the tank

skin/leading

edge skin and the ribs/spar. So put some pieces of waxed scrap an these
areas when you do the Proseal job, then when the Proseal is well set,

pull

out the scrap. It's still tight getting the skin in, but not as tight

as

it

would be if you didn't take this precaution, I imagine.

BTW, there are a couple of rivets on the rear spar that come right over

the

aileron hinges, so close that you can't get the rivets in far enough to
start pulling them. There appear to be a couple of options - a) adjust

the

drill pattern to avoid these spots (I was too late for this) or b)

loosen

the aileron hinge while you pull the rivet. If you go with option (b),
you'll be glad if you used Wayne's plate nut method of attaching the

hinges.

I didn't, and it was a pain getting at the nuts on the inside of the

rear

spar.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

on

top the tank cover on top and under the tank cover on the bottom?

the

tank

bottom

around

further

down

of

the

to

get

problems

with

tank

skin

top

and

matter

how

main

skin

skin

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Betti]

What worked well for me was a sharp pick to pull the ribs into align through
the prepunched holes in the skin and then drill when I saw my center line.
Thanks............

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren & Marg Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

If I recall correctly I clamped a piece of plywood to the nose ribs with
the rib profile so that after a coupel of holes they remained true for
drilling.
Also butted a 3/4" x 2" piece of ply from spar to tip of nose rib before
cranking up the strap tension, notched this piece to allow for rivets
Also braced with a piece of ply from main to rear spar
Cutting 3/4" ply to the inside nose rib profile may solve all this at
one go???
I do know it wan't fun but after a lot of malt nector I now forget the
details ;-)
Warren

Alan Hepburn wrote:

Mike:

It's been a while, but as I recollect, I put a bolt in the attach fitting
which stuck out level with the LE and measured to the centre of the bolt.
When I cam to do the top, I clecoed the holes in the bottom of the LE

spar,

thus avoiding your problem. I don't suppose ther'e any way you can use

the

miss-drilled spar for the second wing? I'd have to think that one

through.

I think I used carriage straps every second rib or so to pull the skin

in,

but it is a bear. Drilling the ribs was no fun either, especially for my
wife, who was underneath, poking the ribs around and bracing them with a
chunk of wood!

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

Big delema today building wing. Screwed up front spar drilling :(
..............
Instructions say on leading skin installation to measure 1 9/16" to

front

attach point and drill front spar. Then install skin on other side of

wing

and go through same process of fastening ribs and then drilling front

spar.

Well, when the time came to fasten both sides of the leading edge skin,

the

spar holes on the top don't line up with the bottom. The procedure

didn't

seem right to me up to this point and the measurement to the front spar
isn't easily made. Seemed pretty hard to actually expect the two sides

to

line up, that is if I knew that was what was expected. It looks like I

can

fudge the holes and get a 1/2 of hole to line up top and bottom at the

same

time. I was thinking of drilling to 1512 rivets and they should round

out

the 2 holes. Has other builders had this issue and what fix?
Also, what is the best way of getting the leading edge skin on. Pretty

tight

getting is folded over to the other side. I don't know if maybe it will

be

easier to install to bottom first and then wrap around to the top?
Mike Betti
771Elite


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: wing building

Now,

skin

tank

skin/leading

these

pull

as

it

the

the

loosen

hinges.

rear

on

the

tank

bottom

around

further

of

the

to

problems

tank

top

matter

main

skin

skin

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

That's exactly what I have done for years Mike. Cut off's from the extension
section of a 12" - 3/32 aviation drill bit sharped to a point. Thru the hole
in the skin and tip the rib over to see the marked line and drill in the
next hole and cleco. Works like a charm.... and keeps you married since you
won't be drilling holes in your wife's fingers. Even backing with a 2 x 4
block I've managed to miss the block and do the finger skin swirl!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

What worked well for me was a sharp pick to pull the ribs into align

through

the prepunched holes in the skin and then drill when I saw my center line.
Thanks............

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren & Marg Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

If I recall correctly I clamped a piece of plywood to the nose ribs with
the rib profile so that after a coupel of holes they remained true for
drilling.
Also butted a 3/4" x 2" piece of ply from spar to tip of nose rib before
cranking up the strap tension, notched this piece to allow for rivets
Also braced with a piece of ply from main to rear spar
Cutting 3/4" ply to the inside nose rib profile may solve all this at
one go???
I do know it wan't fun but after a lot of malt nector I now forget the
details ;-)
Warren

Alan Hepburn wrote:

Mike:

It's been a while, but as I recollect, I put a bolt in the attach

fitting

which stuck out level with the LE and measured to the centre of the

bolt.

When I cam to do the top, I clecoed the holes in the bottom of the LE

spar,

thus avoiding your problem. I don't suppose ther'e any way you can use

the

miss-drilled spar for the second wing? I'd have to think that one

through.

I think I used carriage straps every second rib or so to pull the skin

in,

but it is a bear. Drilling the ribs was no fun either, especially for

my

wife, who was underneath, poking the ribs around and bracing them with

a

chunk of wood!

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: wing building

front

wing

spar.

skin,

the

didn't

spar

to

can

same

out

tight

will

be

Now,

edge

tank

these

pull

tight

as

over

to

adjust

loosen

(b),

rear

on

that

further

piece

area,

the

just

times

to

problems

tank

top

the

stringers

skin

skin




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Betti]

What is the best procedure to riveting main skins to the wing. I think
MAM wants you to work from the center out, but with the fuel tank cover
already riveted down, that doesn't make sense to work toward something
that is already riveted.........?? That is in the case of the bottom.

Also, I finished sealing the bottom tank cover down and then filling in
all the tank corners and such. I am leaving it to sit and dry now, how
long is necessary. I want to turn the wing back over and rivet the
bottom skin on, but afraid to disturb the drying joints in tank.

On the right wing top cover, the stringer seals that go on the inboard
rib are installed on the outside of the tank. The left wing tank has the
ribs in opposite direction, so the stringer seals will be on the inside
of the tank. What do I want to do here? Make the stringer seals to fit
the outside or inside of the tank? I don't know if I'm making any sense
here?

The control tube inside the wing, how easy should it move? I thought it
moved quite well when installing but now it seems to move harder.
Anybody have any general feel to how it should move? I expose no
lubricant should be use either?

Thanks for the help as usual
Mike Betti
771 Elite




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------