Broken Seat back.

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

I guess, unfortunately, there is those that have and those the will !
Thought I was immune to this since I put the old style of seat backs on the
rear seats for the kids and used the newer style diagonal braced seat backs
for the fronts.

Landed at Midland today and put my airplane in a tiedown to be used for a
Transport Canada workshop tomorrow morning. Reached back to put the headset
out of sight between the two rear seats and next thing I knew I was back
there as well! Good thing it didn't happen on take off or landing. Guess
I'll have to swap seats to get her back home and then look at doing some
welding!

There is no warning when this happens... so be careful and make sure you're
trimmed properly at all times for neutral stick pressure and let go of the
stick if it does happen. People have been killed from similar seat breaks in
Citabria's and I know of one personally that happened while towing a glider.
Thank god the glider released immediately, but the Citabria pilot didn't
fair nearly as well perishing in the burning wreckage.

Keep safe!
Wayne

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Sounds almost exactly like what happened to mine. I had drilled the front
of the tube to attach the aluminum centre peice as per MAM's instructions.
The back failed at the first hole above the brace. To repair I used an
inside sleeve welded in place through one of the old rivet holes welded the
break and welded closed all the old rivet holes. re-attached the centre
peice by wrapping a scrap of aluminum around the frame and riveting through
the three layers.
Drew

At 06:28 PM 7/9/2004 -0400, you wrote:

I guess, unfortunately, there is those that have and those the will !
Thought I was immune to this since I put the old style of seat backs on the
rear seats for the kids and used the newer style diagonal braced seat backs
for the fronts.

Landed at Midland today and put my airplane in a tiedown to be used for a
Transport Canada workshop tomorrow morning. Reached back to put the headset
out of sight between the two rear seats and next thing I knew I was back
there as well! Good thing it didn't happen on take off or landing. Guess
I'll have to swap seats to get her back home and then look at doing some
welding!

There is no warning when this happens... so be careful and make sure you're
trimmed properly at all times for neutral stick pressure and let go of the
stick if it does happen. People have been killed from similar seat breaks in
Citabria's and I know of one personally that happened while towing a glider.
Thank god the glider released immediately, but the Citabria pilot didn't
fair nearly as well perishing in the burning wreckage.

Keep safe!
Wayne

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Drew

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Scott Aldrich · Post by **Scott Aldrich** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Did it break at the top of the brace? Is that the same as the SR/Moose seat
back??

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Broken Seat back.

I guess, unfortunately, there is those that have and those the will !
Thought I was immune to this since I put the old style of seat backs on the
rear seats for the kids and used the newer style diagonal braced seat backs
for the fronts.

Landed at Midland today and put my airplane in a tiedown to be used for a
Transport Canada workshop tomorrow morning. Reached back to put the headset
out of sight between the two rear seats and next thing I knew I was back
there as well! Good thing it didn't happen on take off or landing. Guess
I'll have to swap seats to get her back home and then look at doing some
welding!

There is no warning when this happens... so be careful and make sure you're
trimmed properly at all times for neutral stick pressure and let go of the
stick if it does happen. People have been killed from similar seat breaks in
Citabria's and I know of one personally that happened while towing a glider.
Thank god the glider released immediately, but the Citabria pilot didn't
fair nearly as well perishing in the burning wreckage.

Keep safe!
Wayne

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Yes it broke shortly above the diagonal brace. With our flyin on at Midland
today and tomorrow my airplane is still at CYEE (and the broken seat
inspected by Transport Canada today) so haven't had the time to fly it home
from the right seat, pull the seat/upholstery yet etc. Will go out in the
shop and see how the SR seat frame compares to the spare Rebel seat back
frames I have out there as well, to tell you if they are the same. Have
never given the SR frames a second look since I tucked them under the bench
2+ years ago.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: Broken Seat back.

Did it break at the top of the brace? Is that the same as the SR/Moose

seat

back??

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Wayne

G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Broken Seat back.

I guess, unfortunately, there is those that have and those the will !
Thought I was immune to this since I put the old style of seat backs on

the

rear seats for the kids and used the newer style diagonal braced seat

backs

for the fronts.

Landed at Midland today and put my airplane in a tiedown to be used for a
Transport Canada workshop tomorrow morning. Reached back to put the

headset

out of sight between the two rear seats and next thing I knew I was back
there as well! Good thing it didn't happen on take off or landing. Guess
I'll have to swap seats to get her back home and then look at doing some
welding!

There is no warning when this happens... so be careful and make sure

you're

trimmed properly at all times for neutral stick pressure and let go of the
stick if it does happen. People have been killed from similar seat breaks

in

Citabria's and I know of one personally that happened while towing a

glider.

Thank god the glider released immediately, but the Citabria pilot didn't
fair nearly as well perishing in the burning wreckage.

Keep safe!
Wayne

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Scott Aldrich · Post by **Scott Aldrich** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Thanks, if they are the same I am at a good spot to make them stronger now.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 7:18 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Broken Seat back.

Yes it broke shortly above the diagonal brace. With our flyin on at Midland
today and tomorrow my airplane is still at CYEE (and the broken seat
inspected by Transport Canada today) so haven't had the time to fly it home
from the right seat, pull the seat/upholstery yet etc. Will go out in the
shop and see how the SR seat frame compares to the spare Rebel seat back
frames I have out there as well, to tell you if they are the same. Have
never given the SR frames a second look since I tucked them under the bench
2+ years ago.

Wayne

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Rebel seat backs diagonal brace goes 6 " up from the bottom. The high back
style SR seat frames diagonal brace goes up 13" from the bottom.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:41 PM
Subject: RE: Broken Seat back.

Thanks, if they are the same I am at a good spot to make them stronger

now.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of

Wayne

G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 7:18 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Broken Seat back.

Yes it broke shortly above the diagonal brace. With our flyin on at

Midland

today and tomorrow my airplane is still at CYEE (and the broken seat
inspected by Transport Canada today) so haven't had the time to fly it

home

from the right seat, pull the seat/upholstery yet etc. Will go out in the
shop and see how the SR seat frame compares to the spare Rebel seat back
frames I have out there as well, to tell you if they are the same. Have
never given the SR frames a second look since I tucked them under the

bench

2+ years ago.

Wayne

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Scott Aldrich · Post by **Scott Aldrich** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Thanks

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 7:45 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Broken Seat back.

Rebel seat backs diagonal brace goes 6 " up from the bottom. The high back
style SR seat frames diagonal brace goes up 13" from the bottom.

Wayne

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Mine have no rivet holes whatsoever but I still welded about a 13" brace
to the side of the frame that extends down the forward side to the bolt
hole for a bit of triangulation. That was in addition to the
triangulation that MAM spec'd to upgrade them to the new style.
Ken

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Rick Harper · Post by **Rick Harper** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

G'day from down under guys !

Is there a diagram anywhere that shows the recommended bracing mods
for the seat frames ?!?

Been following the threads ... but I'm not sure as to whether or not
this is a REBEL problem , or an SR or Moose problem ... or ALL for that
matter ?!?

Rick in "not so sunny at last" ... (we're in the middle of another
drought down here) Australia !

541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Broken Seat back.

Mine have no rivet holes whatsoever but I still welded about a 13"
brace
to the side of the frame that extends down the forward side to the
bolt
hole for a bit of triangulation. That was in addition to the
triangulation that MAM spec'd to upgrade them to the new style.
Ken

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Hi Rick

541R would have the newer style seat backs. If you look at the seat back
from the side you should see a triangle at the base that extends about
6" up from the bottom. That was supposed to fix this issue several years
ago but there have now been at least 3 failures of that design reported
just above the 6" brace. Where you placed any rivet holes in the frame
may affect the longevity but...

From Wayne's post it sounds like the SR seatback is now similar to what
I did which was essentially to extend that triangular brace about 13" up
from the bottom of the seat back. I can't provide photos as it is a pain
to remove the upholstery on mine.

Ken

Rick Harper wrote:

G'day from down under guys !

Is there a diagram anywhere that shows the recommended bracing mods
for the seat frames ?!?

Been following the threads ... but I'm not sure as to whether or not
this is a REBEL problem , or an SR or Moose problem ... or ALL for that
matter ?!?

Rick in "not so sunny at last" ... (we're in the middle of another
drought down here) Australia !

541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Broken Seat back.

Mine have no rivet holes whatsoever but I still welded about a 13"
brace
to the side of the frame that extends down the forward side to the
bolt
hole for a bit of triangulation. That was in addition to the
triangulation that MAM spec'd to upgrade them to the new style.
Ken

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Rick Harper · Post by **Rick Harper** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:19 am

Thanks !
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Broken Seat back.

Hi Rick

541R would have the newer style seat backs. If you look at the seat
back
from the side you should see a triangle at the base that extends about

6" up from the bottom. That was supposed to fix this issue several
years
ago but there have now been at least 3 failures of that design
reported
just above the 6" brace. Where you placed any rivet holes in the frame

may affect the longevity but...

From Wayne's post it sounds like the SR seatback is now similar to
what
I did which was essentially to extend that triangular brace about 13"
up
from the bottom of the seat back. I can't provide photos as it is a
pain
to remove the upholstery on mine.

Ken

Rick Harper wrote:

G'day from down under guys !

Is there a diagram anywhere that shows the recommended bracing

mods

for the seat frames ?!?

Been following the threads ... but I'm not sure as to whether or not
this is a REBEL problem , or an SR or Moose problem ... or ALL for

that

matter ?!?

Rick in "not so sunny at last" ... (we're in the middle of another
drought down here) Australia !

541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Broken Seat back.

Mine have no rivet holes whatsoever but I still welded about a 13"
brace
to the side of the frame that extends down the forward side to the
bolt
hole for a bit of triangulation. That was in addition to the
triangulation that MAM spec'd to upgrade them to the new style.
Ken

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