Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Walter, Wayne, Curt. Bobp and all you other amphib drivers out there,

I wanted to know what your planes empty weights came in at with the 1800
amphibs. I weighed mine today at 1265 lb. I thought that was a bit heavy. That's
an increase of almost 300 lb. (my wheeled empty weight was 975) and that's
after removing the heavy spring gear.

The Manual said the empty C of G would not change but mine moved back almost
two inches from 9.95 to 11.75. I don't mined the CG change, just wanted to
know if others had similar experience.

This only leaves me with a 475 lb. useful load. I was hoping for a bit more
so I could carry two of use and at least a 100 lb. of gear with more than 6
gallons of fuel and still have insurance!

The leaky front cylinder stopped leaking on its own...now that it has warmed
up above 28*F (and MAM is sending me a new rebuild kit). The muscle needed to
pump the gear up and down has become much better too. Amazing what a
difference a few degrees make.

Bruce G

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Hey, Bruce, I told you not to use those granite rudder blades on
the back. <g>

Can't say I'm surprised. Mine went from 925 on wheels (bungee
gear, Warp prop, and spartan interior) to 1200. And my floats are
not painted, have stock MAM hydraulic hoses and fittings, and no
other fancy do-dads.

I've since added the heavier Sensenich prop, survival gear, GPS,
life jackets, water paddle, tool kit, so now use 1250 when doing
my useful load calculations for flying.

I guess this kind of puts Rick's MTOW thread into perspective.

I can't explain your c of g, though, as mine stayed the same
after adding the floats. Did you have your plane dead level in
flight attitude when positioning the floats? The plumb bob from
the rear float attach points should be centred on your rear
spreader bars. Not sure how much difference this would make, but
my bungee gear would have been lighter than your spring gear (25
pounds, I think) so that would explain part of it.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:15 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Walter, Wayne, Curt. Bobp and all you other amphib
drivers out there,

I wanted to know what your planes empty weights came
in at with the 1800
amphibs. I weighed mine today at 1265 lb. I thought
that was a bit heavy. That's
an increase of almost 300 lb. (my wheeled empty weight
was 975) and that's
after removing the heavy spring gear.

The Manual said the empty C of G would not change but
mine moved back almost
two inches from 9.95 to 11.75. I don't mined the CG
change, just wanted to
know if others had similar experience.

This only leaves me with a 475 lb. useful load. I was
hoping for a bit more
so I could carry two of use and at least a 100 lb. of
gear with more than 6
gallons of fuel and still have insurance!

The leaky front cylinder stopped leaking on its
own...now that it has warmed
up above 28*F (and MAM is sending me a new rebuild
kit). The muscle needed to
pump the gear up and down has become much better too.
Amazing what a
difference a few degrees make.

Bruce G

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Walter,

When I weight the plane I had forgotten to drop a plumb line so I could
measured the wheel distances. So I used a straight line from the wing edge through
the forward gear attach fitting to locate the position on the floats to
measure the wheels for distance from the datum.

I figured it should be the same but maybe I should do it again. The plane is
supposed to be level flight not the floats, right?

Bruce

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Howard's C of G moved back about 0.2 inches when I put his floats on. I
could see your's moving back even more considering you removed the heavy
leaf gear but wonder about 2 full inches. You can confim that you are in the
ball park by setting the floats (gear retracted) down onto a round tube/bar
(placed even distance from the step on both sides) and rolling the airplane
back and forth while holding the tail spring area until it appears to
balance with the cabin floor level. Get someone to mark the spot and measure
to see how close you are to your calculated/weighed location.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Walter,

I do have a nice interior and did paint part of my floats. The Sensenich

prop

weighs 40 lb. with spinner and plates. My Warp Drive on the Kitfox is only

13

lb.

The rear attach points are set pretty plumb with the spreader or maybe a

1/2

inch behind after all was rigged, set and plumb. I would have expected

this to

move my CG forward if anything.

guess I'll have to remove those granite rudder peddles!

Bruce

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

OK, I just realized I leveled the floats...oh duh, not the plane and this is
why my CG is off. I'll have to weight the whole thing again.

Bruce

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Yes, the weights also need to be taken in the level flight
attitude, ie upper door sill or bottom of cabin floor.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:05 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Walter,

When I weight the plane I had forgotten to drop a
plumb line so I could
measured the wheel distances. So I used a straight
line from the wing edge through
the forward gear attach fitting to locate the position
on the floats to
measure the wheels for distance from the datum.

I figured it should be the same but maybe I should do
it again. The plane is
supposed to be level flight not the floats, right?

Bruce

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Walter,

I do have a nice interior and did paint part of my floats. The Sensenich prop
weighs 40 lb. with spinner and plates. My Warp Drive on the Kitfox is only 13
lb.

The rear attach points are set pretty plumb with the spreader or maybe a 1/2
inch behind after all was rigged, set and plumb. I would have expected this to
move my CG forward if anything.

guess I'll have to remove those granite rudder peddles!

Bruce

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Not sure what scales you are using, but if they are the bathroom
type, they can be very inaccurate. When I did mine, I stopped in
at a medical clinic and noted my exact weight on their pro
equipment, before heading over to the hangar to calibrate the
ones I was using to weigh the airplane. Setting the scale to zero
is not good enough. And these were real aircraft scales that I
borrowed and were bought from Aircraft Spruce. However, the
scales themselves still strongly resembled bathroom scales.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 7:35 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Well, maybe I should weigh 25 or 30 lb. more but that
still puts me in at
1220 lb.(1189 + 30). I plane on weighing it again with
a different scale anyway.

Bruce

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Bob Fisher · Post by **Bob Fisher** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

this is not good news! i`ve been counting on a net increase of 230 lbs
when i mount the floats that should have put rebel 342 at 1204 lbs
i guess we`ll have to do the battery and the flyweight starter trick
bob fisher nobel ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Walter, Wayne, Curt. Bobp and all you other amphib drivers out there,

I wanted to know what your planes empty weights came in at with the 1800
amphibs. I weighed mine today at 1265 lb. I thought that was a bit heavy.

That's

an increase of almost 300 lb. (my wheeled empty weight was 975) and that's
after removing the heavy spring gear.

The Manual said the empty C of G would not change but mine moved back

almost

two inches from 9.95 to 11.75. I don't mined the CG change, just wanted to
know if others had similar experience.

This only leaves me with a 475 lb. useful load. I was hoping for a bit

more

so I could carry two of use and at least a 100 lb. of gear with more than

6

gallons of fuel and still have insurance!

The leaky front cylinder stopped leaking on its own...now that it has

warmed

up above 28*F (and MAM is sending me a new rebuild kit). The muscle needed

to

pump the gear up and down has become much better too. Amazing what a
difference a few degrees make.

Bruce G

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Don't be so sure Bob! Those floats you picked up still have the lighter .020
side skins don't they? If they do you should be on track!

I just pulled out the rough notes from Howards's install in 1997.

Floats themselves with the mounting struts and all rigging and hardware
(except steps) weighed in at 258lbs with a c of g of 10.72" aft of the
aircrafts datum point.

These are .020 side skin, .025 rear bottoms and .032 forward bottom floats.

I removed the main gear at 60lbs and the tail wheel (Scott 3200) at 8lbs.
1/2 lb for the wishbone that we removed for a cleaner look.

Therefore the floats only added a net increase of 189.5lbs. Then add about
8lbs for the heavy extruded step, 2lb for selector valve, 7lb for a gallon
of Dextron III, 5lb for hydraulic hoses, 2lb for hand pump, 1 lb for
reservior for a total net gain of 214.5lb.

If you have the heavier side walls and bottoms then it appears they weigh
possibly 25 to 30 lbs more.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

this is not good news! i`ve been counting on a net increase of 230 lbs
when i mount the floats that should have put rebel 342 at 1204 lbs
i guess we`ll have to do the battery and the flyweight starter trick
bob fisher nobel ontario
----- Original Message -----

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Bob, we went through all this on the list a few years ago, when I
first weighed my amphibs. Mine, and probably Bruce's and the
newer floats use heavier skins with .040 in front and .032 at the
rear end. So, depending on what you have, you may be lighter.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 3:42 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Don't be so sure Bob! Those floats you picked up still
have the lighter .020
side skins don't they? If they do you should be on track!

I just pulled out the rough notes from Howards's
install in 1997.

Floats themselves with the mounting struts and all
rigging and hardware
(except steps) weighed in at 258lbs with a c of g of
10.72" aft of the
aircrafts datum point.

These are .020 side skin, .025 rear bottoms and .032
forward bottom floats.

I removed the main gear at 60lbs and the tail wheel
(Scott 3200) at 8lbs.
1/2 lb for the wishbone that we removed for a cleaner look.

Therefore the floats only added a net increase of
189.5lbs. Then add about
8lbs for the heavy extruded step, 2lb for selector
valve, 7lb for a gallon
of Dextron III, 5lb for hydraulic hoses, 2lb for hand
pump, 1 lb for
reservior for a total net gain of 214.5lb.

If you have the heavier side walls and bottoms then it
appears they weigh
possibly 25 to 30 lbs more.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Fisher" <rgfisher@zeuter.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

this is not good news! i`ve been counting on a net
increase of 230 lbs
when i mount the floats that should have put
rebel 342 at 1204 lbs
i guess we`ll have to do the battery and the
flyweight starter trick
bob fisher nobel ontario
----- Original Message -----

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Wow, that is very good, Drew. I thought your engine weighed about
the same as the 0320's. What were you on wheels?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 4:10 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Hi bruce My plane came in at 1133lbs. I've done just
about everything I
could think of to keep the weight as low as possible.
Drew

At 02:14 AM 2/24/2004 EST, you wrote:
Walter, Wayne, Curt. Bobp and all you other amphib
drivers out there,
I wanted to know what your planes empty weights came
in at with the 1800
amphibs. I weighed mine today at 1265 lb. I thought
that was a bit heavy.
That's
an increase of almost 300 lb. (my wheeled empty
weight was 975) and that's
after removing the heavy spring gear.

The Manual said the empty C of G would not change but
mine moved back almost
two inches from 9.95 to 11.75. I don't mined the CG
change, just wanted to
know if others had similar experience.

This only leaves me with a 475 lb. useful load. I was
hoping for a bit more
so I could carry two of use and at least a 100 lb. of
gear with more than 6
gallons of fuel and still have insurance!

The leaky front cylinder stopped leaking on its
own...now that it has warmed
up above 28*F (and MAM is sending me a new rebuild
kit). The muscle needed
to
pump the gear up and down has become much better too.
Amazing what a
difference a few degrees make.

Bruce G

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Drew

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Hi bruce My plane came in at 1133lbs. I've done just about everything I
could think of to keep the weight as low as possible.
Drew

At 02:14 AM 2/24/2004 EST, you wrote:

Walter, Wayne, Curt. Bobp and all you other amphib drivers out there,

I wanted to know what your planes empty weights came in at with the 1800
amphibs. I weighed mine today at 1265 lb. I thought that was a bit heavy.

That's

an increase of almost 300 lb. (my wheeled empty weight was 975) and that's
after removing the heavy spring gear.

The Manual said the empty C of G would not change but mine moved back almost
two inches from 9.95 to 11.75. I don't mined the CG change, just wanted to
know if others had similar experience.

This only leaves me with a 475 lb. useful load. I was hoping for a bit more
so I could carry two of use and at least a 100 lb. of gear with more than 6
gallons of fuel and still have insurance!

The leaky front cylinder stopped leaking on its own...now that it has warmed
up above 28*F (and MAM is sending me a new rebuild kit). The muscle needed

to

pump the gear up and down has become much better too. Amazing what a
difference a few degrees make.

Bruce G

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Drew

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

Wayne'

If your figures on Howard's Rebel are correct then my plane should only
weight 1189 lb. or something very close to it.

My spring gear rebel empty weight-__________________975 lb.
Net increase for 1800 amphibs______________________214 lb.

_____
Total weight
1189 lb.

The weight came in at 1265 lb. hmmm...possible the scale I used is wrong or
not accurate.

Bruce

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:00 am

But don't you have the heavier skins on your floats Bruce?

Didn't forget your survival box behind the curtain did you.. when you
weighed

?

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Empty weight for 1800 amphibs

Wayne'

If your figures on Howard's Rebel are correct then my plane should only
weight 1189 lb. or something very close to it.

My spring gear rebel empty weight-__________________975 lb.
Net increase for 1800 amphibs______________________214 lb.

_____
Total weight
1189 lb.

The weight came in at 1265 lb. hmmm...possible the scale I used is wrong

or

not accurate.

Bruce

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