Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats

[Walter Klatt]

Anybody have any experience with these? Just wondering what that
would do to my take-off, climb and cruise, and my RPM's.

Walter



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[Walter Klatt]

That much, heh? I know some of the Supercubs around here use
them, and they claim big improvements on float take-offs. But
they're slower than the Rebel anyway, so was wondering just how a
Rebel might perform with it. It's an expensive prop, though, so
sure would like to hear from others before trying one myself.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 8:07 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


Only what I read on supercubs.org and looks like
basically they lose a good
25MPH on wheels when they go with the Borer and 29" Bushwheels.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats

Anybody have any experience with these? Just

wondering what that

would do to my take-off, climb and cruise, and my RPM's.

Walter

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Only what I read on supercubs.org and looks like basically they lose a good
25MPH on wheels when they go with the Borer and 29" Bushwheels.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats

Anybody have any experience with these? Just wondering what that
would do to my take-off, climb and cruise, and my RPM's.

Walter

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[Walter Klatt]

Thanks Phil. I will look forward to hearing about the results.

While I'm not unhappy with my performance, I'm still always
looking for more. Sometimes I go flying here with the ultralight
guys, and while they can't go as fast as me, they sure can hop
out of the water quick with their little 912S's. I can hold my
own with anything bigger, but not smaller, I've found. There are
a few small high alpine lakes around here, that at least for now,
I won't go into, but they can.

So maybe that Borer might be just enough to give me that edge.
Maybe a Borer and that STOL kit?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
LisaFly99@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 6:25 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


In a message dated 11/8/03 10:50:46 PM Central Standard Time,
walter.klatt@shaw.ca writes:

That much, heh? I know some of the Supercubs around here use
them, and they claim big improvements on float take-offs. But
they're slower than the Rebel anyway, so was

wondering just how a

Rebel might perform with it. It's an expensive prop,

though, so

sure would like to hear from others before trying one myself.

Walter

WALTER
Kit 281 will have a 150 Hp Lyc with a Borer prop,
first flight (SHOULD?) be
next spring. Starting on wheels while the amphips are
being figured out.
Finishing up controls and empanage fairings now. Then
mount the engine and build the
cowling.
Will keep you and all informed on performance (when)
it happens.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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[LisaFly99]

In a message dated 11/8/03 10:50:46 PM Central Standard Time,
walter.klatt@shaw.ca writes:

That much, heh? I know some of the Supercubs around here use
them, and they claim big improvements on float take-offs. But
they're slower than the Rebel anyway, so was wondering just how a
Rebel might perform with it. It's an expensive prop, though, so
sure would like to hear from others before trying one myself.

Walter

WALTER
Kit 281 will have a 150 Hp Lyc with a Borer prop, first flight (SHOULD?) be
next spring. Starting on wheels while the amphips are being figured out.
Finishing up controls and empanage fairings now. Then mount the engine and build the
cowling.
Will keep you and all informed on performance (when) it happens.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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[Walter Klatt]

Don't have a quote, but have been told they are considerably more
than a Sensenich. I am not about to get one, but since they seem
quite popular on the 0320 Supercub float planes, had me wondering
if it had been tried on the Rebel.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


Walter,

I think I'd try the STOL kit first before the borer
prop. How much is a borer
prop anyway?

Bruce



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[Walter Klatt]

No question, Bob, if I was building, I would seriously consider
the Fife tips. They certainly look good, and would be less work
to install than the factory ones, and the extra performance would
be a bonus. I would be interested in seeing that test data from
Curt. I don't doubt the improvement, but just wondering what the
numbers were.

On the STOL kits, I have heard you rave about the performance,
and again, I don't doubt the improvement. But are there some
specific test numbers with and without them on the same plane?
And again, please let me emphasize that I am not questioning the
stated performance improvements, just looking for some numbers to
compare to.

Same with the Borer, if anyone has done tests on the Rebel. I
shared with the group some detailed comparisons of my old Warp to
my current Sensenich a while back, and that's the type of
information I am looking for.

I know there can be major performance difference between
seemingly identical Rebels. For example, there is one locally
here on wheels that can't keep up to mine on floats. And he's got
10 more hp, too. Doesn't make sense, but we've proved it in the
air side by side, and it wasn't even close.

Always looking to improve an already great plane...
Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:08 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats



Hi Walter !

Even easier than the STOL kit - if you haven't already
got them, replace your wing tips with Dave Fife's Hoerner tips.

They will reduce takeoff distance by over 20 % -
Curt has actually
measurements from his tests ! ..... THEN do the
STOL kit ! ;-)

(BOTH are less $$$$ than a Borer prop, and are a
known quantity !)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 08:31 PM 11/10/03 EST, you wrote:

Walter,

I think I'd try the STOL kit first before the borer

prop. How much is a borer

prop anyway?

Bruce



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[Legeorgen]

Walter,

I think I'd try the STOL kit first before the borer prop. How much is a borer
prop anyway?

Bruce



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Walter !

Even easier than the STOL kit - if you haven't already
got them, replace your wing tips with Dave Fife's Hoerner tips.

They will reduce takeoff distance by over 20 % - Curt has actually
measurements from his tests ! ..... THEN do the STOL kit ! ;-)

(BOTH are less $$$$ than a Borer prop, and are a known quantity !)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 08:31 PM 11/10/03 EST, you wrote:

Walter,

I think I'd try the STOL kit first before the borer prop. How much is a borer
prop anyway?

Bruce



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[Walter Klatt]

The Borer's for the 0320 are generally about 82 X 41 or 42. It's
that extra diameter that provides so much extra thrust for
take-off which is what you want on floats. There is a trade off,
of course, and that is less cruise. However, since float planes
are slower anyways, the difference isn't always that much. You
might have to turn 2450 instead of 2350 to get 65 % power and
still get almost the same cruise. That's what I'm trying to find
out. However, there must be a good reason that so many Supercubs
on floats with the 0320 use this prop.

I am not sure I would want to use this prop on wheels, though,
unless you wanted to use it to mow your runway grass.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Keith B. Oliver
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:13 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


For the sake of those who might not know
what is the big difference between the Borer and the Sensenick

Keith Oliver
kboliver@adelphia.net
Elite #654 TD
N654ME (reserved)
Farmingdale, Maine




-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
LisaFly99@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 8:18 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


In a message dated 11/10/03 9:16:59 PM Central Standard Time,
walter.klatt@shaw.ca writes:

Even easier than the STOL kit - if you haven't already

got them, replace your wing tips with Dave Fife's

Hoerner tips.

They will reduce takeoff distance by over 20 % -
Curt has actually
measurements from his tests ! ..... THEN do the
STOL kit ! ;-)

(BOTH are less $$$$ than a Borer prop, and are a
known quantity !)

......bobp

BOB
I have to agree with you, but the fellow that owns the
kit talked to some
one
at one of the float companys and they highly
recomended the Borer for float
flying. And he found (a deal) on the one that was
recomended. And the rest
is
history. We'll see some time next year (IF) I can hang
in there that long.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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[Walter Klatt]

Yeah, it's not that my plane is fast, his is slow, no doubt about
it. When he first started flying it, he thought his ASI was
wrong, and got it checked, then tried moving the static port.
Finally, we had a chance to fly together, and that's when he
found out his ASI was correct, and he was just plain slow. I am
not exactly sure why. The plane looks like it is well built, and
nothing unusual about the airframe. He does have a different prop
though. It is a McCauley 75 or 76 inch, but can't remember the
pitch. He has the bungee gear, but the leg struts are open, with
no fabric fairings on them. Maybe his engine isn't producing 160
hp, but he did say it would spin right up to 2700 on full
throttle, which is what I get. Anyway, I would start leaving him
behind at about 120 mph while I would go up to 125 with 2 people
and floats. I can't remember what I was on wheels, but I think
around 135 for top speed.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


Walter,

Your friend with the Rebel that can't keep up. Does he
have the same prop on
his 0320 160HP Lyc. as you on your 150HP? How can
there be that big of a
difference? you have to be 10-15 MPH slower on amphibs.

Bruce



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[Walter Klatt]

Yup, that's what I have been thinking.

Can't remember what that STOL kit weighed, though. If it is more
than 20 pounds, I would be concerned, as an 0360 is only about 30
pounds more than the 0320, and I would take that extra 30 hp
first if the weight is the same. It's too bad MAM doesn't offer a
STOL leading edge rib option, so you wouldn't have the weight
penalty.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:11 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


If the borer only cost you 5 MPH it would be well
worth the trade. How about
the Horner tips, STOL kit AND Borer prop? That would
be one Rebel on Steroids.

Bruce



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[LisaFly99]

In a message dated 11/10/03 9:16:59 PM Central Standard Time,
walter.klatt@shaw.ca writes:

Even easier than the STOL kit - if you haven't already

got them, replace your wing tips with Dave Fife's Hoerner tips.

They will reduce takeoff distance by over 20 % -
Curt has actually
measurements from his tests ! ..... THEN do the
STOL kit ! ;-)

(BOTH are less $$$$ than a Borer prop, and are a
known quantity !)

......bobp

BOB
I have to agree with you, but the fellow that owns the kit talked to some one
at one of the float companys and they highly recomended the Borer for float
flying. And he found (a deal) on the one that was recomended. And the rest is
history. We'll see some time next year (IF) I can hang in there that long.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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[Keith B. Oliver]

For the sake of those who might not know
what is the big difference between the Borer and the Sensenick

Keith Oliver
kboliver@adelphia.net
Elite #654 TD
N654ME (reserved)
Farmingdale, Maine




-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
LisaFly99@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 8:18 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Borer Prop for Rebel on Floats


In a message dated 11/10/03 9:16:59 PM Central Standard Time,
walter.klatt@shaw.ca writes:

Even easier than the STOL kit - if you haven't already

got them, replace your wing tips with Dave Fife's Hoerner tips.

They will reduce takeoff distance by over 20 % -
Curt has actually
measurements from his tests ! ..... THEN do the
STOL kit ! ;-)

(BOTH are less $$$$ than a Borer prop, and are a
known quantity !)

......bobp

BOB
I have to agree with you, but the fellow that owns the kit talked to some
one
at one of the float companys and they highly recomended the Borer for float
flying. And he found (a deal) on the one that was recomended. And the rest
is
history. We'll see some time next year (IF) I can hang in there that long.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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[LisaFly99]

In a message dated 11/11/03 8:14:05 PM Central Standard Time,
kboliver@adelphia.net writes:

For the sake of those who might not know
what is the big difference between the Borer and the Sensenick

KEITH
You got me by the n#ts. It's a little longer and according to the owner float
pilots swear by them, or was it swear at them. we'll find out though I'm
sure.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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