Composite props

[Mike Kimball]

Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites or $2,500 for IVO. What to do,
what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight - look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....

.....bobp



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[Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake]

I talked to the IVO prop guys and one of their first questions was if I was
going to use a four cylinder Aircraft motor. They will not sell it to you if
they know you are using an IO360 - or (I may be wrong on this) the 500
series of engines

I found a reference to a 1997 test that is probably the root of the issue -
http://www.cozybuilders.org/mail_list/t ... /props.txt

" the violence of the Lyc 360's firing impulse was
enough to loosen the original blade attachments."

At that point they were trying to strengthen the root attachment point but I
guess they gave up. Your V8 will have twice as many cylinders rinning twice
the RPM for 1/4 of the impulse per firing - or 3/8 of the impulse of an
IO540.

bobp - you may not trust your airplane to an IVO but would you go for a ride
in a rig with one??



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:16 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Composite props


I'm told from Supercubs.org that IVO won't sell a prop to a Lyco or a
Continental either. I questioned if the guy was mistaken and talking about a
Warp Drive, but he said "no he was already flying behind a WD and had
enquired about an IVO" and was told this. Anyone know for sure??
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

That's the great thing about homebuilding ! ;-)

I don't think I'm <quite> ready yet to risk <my> airplane
to an IVO prop .... I know a couple who have, but I'm still
<not quite ready> .... ;-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 10:21 AM 6/12/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites or $2,500 for IVO. What to

do,

what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

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[Bob Patterson]

Don't know if everyone has heard of these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight - look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....

.....bobp



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[Jones, Michael]

there is also whirlwind props and their constant speed units for 0-320 are
only 28 lbs, cost is expensive as are all of them
http://www.whirlwindpropellers.com/index.shtml

also have props for m-14 engines



mike #007

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:apat@istar.ca]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:34 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight - look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....

.....bobp



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[Bob Patterson]

That's the great thing about homebuilding ! ;-)

I don't think I'm <quite> ready yet to risk <my> airplane
to an IVO prop .... I know a couple who have, but I'm still
<not quite ready> .... ;-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 10:21 AM 6/12/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites or $2,500 for IVO. What to do,
what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight - look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....

.....bobp



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[Walter Klatt]

This reminds me of a discussion I had with an Elite
builder last year. He was thinking about getting an
0320 but wanted to use a constant speed prop to eek out
a little more take off and climb. He soon found out
that he was looking at more than 10K for such a prop
along with a lot of extra weight and complexity. He
quickly figured out that it was cheaper to move up to a
good rebuilt 0360 and a fixed pitch prop, which is what
he now has.

Having said that, he now again is thinking of upgrading
either to some kind of composite variable pitch or a
Borer.

Personally, I think some people just have too much
money on their hands...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:21 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Composite props


Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites
or $2,500 for IVO. What to do,
what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of
these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe
even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight -
look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for
a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit
different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....


.....bobp



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Buy THREE IVO's and carry a spare??!! ;o))

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites or $2,500 for IVO. What to do,
what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight - look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....

.....bobp

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I'm told from Supercubs.org that IVO won't sell a prop to a Lyco or a
Continental either. I questioned if the guy was mistaken and talking about a
Warp Drive, but he said "no he was already flying behind a WD and had
enquired about an IVO" and was told this. Anyone know for sure??
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

That's the great thing about homebuilding ! ;-)

I don't think I'm <quite> ready yet to risk <my> airplane
to an IVO prop .... I know a couple who have, but I'm still
<not quite ready> .... ;-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 10:21 AM 6/12/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites or $2,500 for IVO. What to

do,

what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight - look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....

.....bobp

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[Walter Klatt]

No, Bob, he is still building and I'd guess he's got
about 2 years to go. Should be a nice plane when
finished, but I think he's concerned about my Rebel
outperforming his Elite...

Of course, it will be no contest with those new high
performance floats of his. Wayne knows the story behind
that one, and I'll leave it to him to tell us if he
wishes. I know nothing, I see nothing, I... And I had
nothing to do with him getting those floats. I'll get
you, Wayne...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:23 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Composite props


Nope......... Walters helping him install
some Easylift floats instead!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

Hi Walter !

Is that Elite builder flying ???

If he wants to upgrade, did you

suggest a Rebel ?? ;-^) ;-) :-)
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.---------
----------------------

At 05:50 PM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote:

This reminds me of a discussion I had

with an Elite

builder last year. He was thinking about

getting an

0320 but wanted to use a constant speed

prop to eek out

a little more take off and climb. He soon

found out

that he was looking at more than 10K for

such a prop

along with a lot of extra weight and

complexity. He

quickly figured out that it was cheaper

to move up to a

good rebuilt 0360 and a fixed pitch prop,

which is what

he now has.

Having said that, he now again is

thinking of upgrading

either to some kind of composite variable

pitch or a

Borer.

Personally, I think some people just have too much
money on their hands...

Walter

for V-8's ....

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Britt !

Right now - I don't think so !!! Thanks anyway ! ;-)

.....bobp

-----------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 03:02 PM 6/12/03 -0600, you wrote:

I talked to the IVO prop guys and one of their first questions was if I was
going to use a four cylinder Aircraft motor. They will not sell it to you if
they know you are using an IO360 - or (I may be wrong on this) the 500
series of engines

I found a reference to a 1997 test that is probably the root of the issue -
http://www.cozybuilders.org/mail_list/t ... /props.txt

" the violence of the Lyc 360's firing impulse was
enough to loosen the original blade attachments."

At that point they were trying to strengthen the root attachment point but I
guess they gave up. Your V8 will have twice as many cylinders rinning twice
the RPM for 1/4 of the impulse per firing - or 3/8 of the impulse of an
IO540.

bobp - you may not trust your airplane to an IVO but would you go for a ride
in a rig with one??



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:16 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Composite props


I'm told from Supercubs.org that IVO won't sell a prop to a Lyco or a
Continental either. I questioned if the guy was mistaken and talking about a
Warp Drive, but he said "no he was already flying behind a WD and had
enquired about an IVO" and was told this. Anyone know for sure??
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

That's the great thing about homebuilding ! ;-)

I don't think I'm <quite> ready yet to risk <my> airplane
to an IVO prop .... I know a couple who have, but I'm still
<not quite ready> .... ;-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 10:21 AM 6/12/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites or $2,500 for IVO. What to

do,

what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

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[Legeorgen]

The Whirl Wind prop sound like a great idea and I wouldn't mind having one
myself for the 0320 Rebel, but the $7,000.00 US price tag plus governor and new
spinner does not. Thanks, but I'll keep flying the Sensenich, for a while
anyway.

Bruce 357R



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Walter !

Is that Elite builder flying ???

If he wants to upgrade, did you suggest a Rebel ?? ;-^) ;-) :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 05:50 PM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote:

This reminds me of a discussion I had with an Elite
builder last year. He was thinking about getting an
0320 but wanted to use a constant speed prop to eek out
a little more take off and climb. He soon found out
that he was looking at more than 10K for such a prop
along with a lot of extra weight and complexity. He
quickly figured out that it was cheaper to move up to a
good rebuilt 0360 and a fixed pitch prop, which is what
he now has.

Having said that, he now again is thinking of upgrading
either to some kind of composite variable pitch or a
Borer.

Personally, I think some people just have too much
money on their hands...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:21 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Composite props


Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites
or $2,500 for IVO. What to do,
what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of
these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe
even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight -
look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for
a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit
different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....


.....bobp



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Nope......... Walters helping him install some Easylift floats instead!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

Hi Walter !

Is that Elite builder flying ???

If he wants to upgrade, did you suggest a Rebel ?? ;-^) ;-) :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 05:50 PM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote:

This reminds me of a discussion I had with an Elite
builder last year. He was thinking about getting an
0320 but wanted to use a constant speed prop to eek out
a little more take off and climb. He soon found out
that he was looking at more than 10K for such a prop
along with a lot of extra weight and complexity. He
quickly figured out that it was cheaper to move up to a
good rebuilt 0360 and a fixed pitch prop, which is what
he now has.

Having said that, he now again is thinking of upgrading
either to some kind of composite variable pitch or a
Borer.

Personally, I think some people just have too much
money on their hands...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Kimball
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:21 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Composite props


Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites
or $2,500 for IVO. What to do,
what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of
these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe
even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight -
look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for
a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit
different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....


.....bobp



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[Bob Patterson]

Don't know if they will still sell them, but there's one
flying at Brampton on an O-320, and another on a Continental O-200.

There <were> a couple of others over the years ....

Both have had problems - I seem to recall that the O-320
had an engine rebuild paid for by IVO (!!) ... could be wrong -
maybe it was just a prop rebuild ... didn't sound good anyway !

The one on the O-200 was a bit too long - "Just measure
carefully & hacksaw a couple of inches off each blade" !! The
exposed foam core doesn't inspire confidence !!! Neither does the
twisting for pitch change - just gives me some worries about
long-term durability .... and losing a blade spoils your
whole afternoon ! ;-) ;-^) :-)

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 04:16 PM 6/12/03 -0400, you wrote:

I'm told from Supercubs.org that IVO won't sell a prop to a Lyco or a
Continental either. I questioned if the guy was mistaken and talking about a
Warp Drive, but he said "no he was already flying behind a WD and had
enquired about an IVO" and was told this. Anyone know for sure??
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

That's the great thing about homebuilding ! ;-)

I don't think I'm <quite> ready yet to risk <my> airplane
to an IVO prop .... I know a couple who have, but I'm still
<not quite ready> .... ;-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 10:21 AM 6/12/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hmm, let's see, $16,000 for aerocomposites or $2,500 for IVO. What to

do,

what to do. :-)

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Composite props



Don't know if everyone has heard of these folks, but they
might be a possibility for Moose, and maybe even Rebel, builders.
Seems the big advantage is light weight - look very close to fixed-
pitch Sensenich, at 38 lb. - very light for a constant-speed prop -
- of course, the price is a bit different ! ;-) :-)

http://www.aerocomposites.com

Notice that they do list props for V-8's ....

.....bobp

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:53 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

No, Bob, he is still building and I'd guess he's got
about 2 years to go. Should be a nice plane when
finished, but I think he's concerned about my Rebel
outperforming his Elite...

Of course, it will be no contest with those new high
performance floats of his. Wayne knows the story behind
that one, and I'll leave it to him to tell us if he
wishes. I know nothing, I see nothing, I... And I had
nothing to do with him getting those floats. I'll get
you, Wayne...

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:23 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Composite props


Nope......... Walters helping him install
some Easylift floats instead!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: Composite props

Hi Walter !

Is that Elite builder flying ???

If he wants to upgrade, did you

suggest a Rebel ?? ;-^) ;-) :-)
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.---------
----------------------

At 05:50 PM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote:

with an Elite

getting an

prop to eek out

found out

such a prop

complexity. He

to move up to a

which is what

thinking of upgrading

pitch or a

for V-8's ....

mike.davis@dcsol.com

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