Rebel Bottom Carrythrough Question

Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Rebel Manual (with Revised pages 18/12/2001)
Chapter 12.0, Figure 12.9.2 and 12.9.4

I am building the "FULL TUBE" FUS-5 carrythroughs for the spring gear.
At 12.9.2, the drawing calls out a dimension of 0.1875 inch for the trim
line cut if one is building the split FUS-5 (for the bungee system). The
next step says, "if installing the spring gear, the forward FUS-5 will
need trimming as shown in 12.9.4. The manual at 12.9.4 does not have a
dimension callout for this trim line. It suggests, as an option, trim
this during corner wrap installation. This option doesn't seem like a
good idea (to me) to trim this piece at that time because the FUS-2's,
FUS-3's and FUS-4's, FUS-5's and Gussets will be a complete and riveted
assembly. Consequently, trying to cut, file and debur the trimmed ends
would be very close to the FUS-2 Gussets (pretty tight in that area).

Am I missing something here? Is there an accurate way to calculate the
trim dimension for the forward FUS-5 ends so I can cut these on the band
saw prior to final riveting the FUS-2 Gussets, FUS-5 Tubes and FUS-4
Uprights together? OR Does anyone have an already calculated trim
dimension for this end slice?

Do I use the 0.1875 dimension as shown for the half carrythroughs? OR is
it best to wait until corner wrap installation and try to cut and debur
the ends at that time?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

PS: No hits when searching the archives for comments concerning this
question.

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

It will also depend on whether you have moved your firewall back the 3
inches as well!!, as it changes the angle from the firewall edge to the cage
post when you do so. DO NOT trim the rear FUS-5 at all, other than ever so
slightly if you find it might sit too tight to the side panel (Fus-26). I
will see if I wrote down a trim dimension when I did Mike Fuller's fuselage,
as it had the 3" cut back and I am quite sure I have the trim numbers down
for the normal firewall postion as well. Will let you know later today if I
can.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Dazey" <dazey@earthlink.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:37 PM
Subject: Rebel Bottom Carrythrough Question

Rebel Manual (with Revised pages 18/12/2001)
Chapter 12.0, Figure 12.9.2 and 12.9.4

I am building the "FULL TUBE" FUS-5 carrythroughs for the spring gear.
At 12.9.2, the drawing calls out a dimension of 0.1875 inch for the trim
line cut if one is building the split FUS-5 (for the bungee system). The
next step says, "if installing the spring gear, the forward FUS-5 will
need trimming as shown in 12.9.4. The manual at 12.9.4 does not have a
dimension callout for this trim line. It suggests, as an option, trim
this during corner wrap installation. This option doesn't seem like a
good idea (to me) to trim this piece at that time because the FUS-2's,
FUS-3's and FUS-4's, FUS-5's and Gussets will be a complete and riveted
assembly. Consequently, trying to cut, file and debur the trimmed ends
would be very close to the FUS-2 Gussets (pretty tight in that area).

Am I missing something here? Is there an accurate way to calculate the
trim dimension for the forward FUS-5 ends so I can cut these on the band
saw prior to final riveting the FUS-2 Gussets, FUS-5 Tubes and FUS-4
Uprights together? OR Does anyone have an already calculated trim
dimension for this end slice?

Do I use the 0.1875 dimension as shown for the half carrythroughs? OR is
it best to wait until corner wrap installation and try to cut and debur
the ends at that time?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

PS: No hits when searching the archives for comments concerning this
question.

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Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

It will also depend on whether you have moved your firewall back the 3
inches as well!!, as it changes the angle from the firewall edge to the cage
post when you do so. DO NOT trim the rear FUS-5 at all, other than ever so
slightly if you find it might sit too tight to the side panel (Fus-26). I
will see if I wrote down a trim dimension when I did Mike Fuller's fuselage,
as it had the 3" cut back and I am quite sure I have the trim numbers down
for the normal firewall postion as well. Will let you know later today if I
can.

Wayne:

I am NOT cutting the firewall back. I am going to leave it "stock".

It seemed as if one were to use the FUS-5 half section 0.1875 dimension (Fig.
12.9.2) the angle would end up being wrong.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

I still remember a lot of cursing when I built my first one following the
manual and had to trim more with a hack saw while it was clamped down to the
table, to get the floor pan to clear it. Will look if I have some clear
numbers for you.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Dazey" <dazey@earthlink.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Bottom Carrythrough Question

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

It will also depend on whether you have moved your firewall back the 3
inches as well!!, as it changes the angle from the firewall edge to the

cage

post when you do so. DO NOT trim the rear FUS-5 at all, other than ever

so

slightly if you find it might sit too tight to the side panel (Fus-26).

I

will see if I wrote down a trim dimension when I did Mike Fuller's

fuselage,

as it had the 3" cut back and I am quite sure I have the trim numbers

down

for the normal firewall postion as well. Will let you know later today

if I

can.

Wayne:

I am NOT cutting the firewall back. I am going to leave it "stock".

It seemed as if one were to use the FUS-5 half section 0.1875 dimension

(Fig.

12.9.2) the angle would end up being wrong.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

I still remember a lot of cursing when I built my first one following the
manual and had to trim more with a hack saw while it was clamped down to the
table, to get the floor pan to clear it. Will look if I have some clear
numbers for you.

In a phone conversation with Chuck Bailey this morning, he mentioned that if
one leaves the firewall in the stock position (not cut back), just double the
half tube 0.1875 dmension that is shown on Figure 12.9.2 and that "should" be
the general angle of the cut (0.375 inch - 3/8 inch). Of course, there is
always the possibility of the side skin and corner wrap skin that might hit the
FUS-5 ends. In that case, he mentioned that a little filing locally might be
needed.

His thoughts along with mine.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Good place to start Terry. I have old notes I made that 1/2" would have been
plenty (they used to spell out 5/8" in the original manual) and you
definitely want as much material as you can get with the spring gear option.
I did Mikes with a 5/8" cut and it worked good with the firewall cut back 3"
but sure doesn't leave anything material wise outside the saddle bolts.

I know Bruce Georgen is on Spring gear with the firewall in original
postion, maybe it wouldn't be too much trouble for him to cut a strip of
carboard 2 " wide and slide it out to the end of the tube so one corner
touches the side panel. Then measure the gap on the other corner for a cut
dimension. That way we will all have a perfect number for cutting!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Dazey" <dazey@earthlink.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Bottom Carrythrough Question

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

I still remember a lot of cursing when I built my first one following

the

manual and had to trim more with a hack saw while it was clamped down to

the

table, to get the floor pan to clear it. Will look if I have some clear
numbers for you.

In a phone conversation with Chuck Bailey this morning, he mentioned that

if

one leaves the firewall in the stock position (not cut back), just double

the

half tube 0.1875 dmension that is shown on Figure 12.9.2 and that "should"

be

the general angle of the cut (0.375 inch - 3/8 inch). Of course, there is
always the possibility of the side skin and corner wrap skin that might

hit the

FUS-5 ends. In that case, he mentioned that a little filing locally might

be

needed.

His thoughts along with mine.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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Murray Cherkas · Post by **Murray Cherkas** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Hi Terry:

I cut my firewall back 3". The front carrythrough is cut at an 18 degree
angle.These are full tubes, not cut in half.

Good luck
Murray Cherkas

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Jims170A · Post by **Jims170A** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Hi Terry
I cut 1/2 inch off each end of the front tube. Standard firewall and full tubes. You can use Fus 7 to get the angle right. Don't cut any more then you need too as the edge distance is only about a 1/2 inch with a 3/8 bolt. Newer kits use 5/16 saddle bolts.
There is a photo under "after market upgrades" of this area. If you are thinking of added any extra strength in this area now is the time to do it.
I also drilled the outboard saddle bolts in the drill press at this point, so the holes would be square. I can sent you more photos if you need them.
Jim R254

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Hi Terry,

I will check my tubes next trip to the plane, probably on Wednesday, if you can wait that long. I'm not fortunate enough to have an air strip at home with my bird parked conveniently in the next building like it was when I was building it.

From memory I would say it was about 1/2 inch, but not more. I don't think an 1/8", or slightly more, would make all that much difference as long as you have edge clearance.

My gear has the inside cabin top plates (SG-?) cut short of the saddle bolts and the plates stop even with the bottom of the inside corner raps. That's how MAM originally built the spring gear to facilitate retro fitting to existing Rebels with minimal disassemble, I'm assuming. Not how I would have liked it but that's how I acquired it and I chose not to take it apart but beef it up with stacking 1/8" plates over the tube, which I later removed and replaced with MAM's newest fix, the 2" angle. 22 hours on a dirt strip and no sign of any buckling. I've not landed in any fields with mole holes and rocks, yet!

If I had a choice I would opt for Wayne's gear. It's lighter and from what I understand, it will take more punishment.

Bobp,

I'm looking forward to rambling the West when the group makes it to Arlington next year. Wishing I could make both oceans, but someone in my family still has to make college payments for two kids and save for the third.

Bruce 357R

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James Vandolder · Post by **James Vandolder** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Howdy ALL

Further to the recent posts about the Bottom
Carrythrough, I have a question in regard to Rebel
spring gear reinforcing Blocks that I find a picture
of in the After Market Upgrade area.

Is this a kit that someone markets, or is the
'engineering information' available to maufacture
these pieces?

Is the concensus that this is a good modification to
incorporate?

We are fast approaching the closing up of this
section, and would apreciate the information.

Thanks all

James - REB493

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Jims170A · Post by **Jims170A** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

In a message dated 11/19/2002 4:29:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, mlandj@rocketmail.com writes:

Further to the recent posts about the Bottom
Carrythrough, I have a question in regard to Rebel
spring gear reinforcing Blocks that I find a picture
of in the After Market Upgrade area.

Hi James
I just bought the bar stock from Aircraft Spruce. Each block is 3 inches long, 3/4 by 1 3/4. I used the belt sander to match the inside of the tube. The blocks are bolted to the tube with two AN3 bolts. The blocks will replace the crush tubes and help with edge distance strength.
The manual was written so the spring gear could be installed after the airplane was flying. If you're building with Spring Gear in mind you have more choices.
The old manual had you cutting 5/8 inch off each tube which did not leave much edge distance for the saddle bolts.
There never was a reason not to leave the aft tube square. Also if you set one of the saddles on top of the tubes you will see that you have very little room for error when drilling the tubes with a hand drill from under the airplane.
These are just my thoughts as Murphy has chosen to add an angle to the forward tube for strength in this area.
I just didn't like the crush tube idea so I changed it to solid blocks, and that's why they make you put that sign on the door that says EXPERIMENTAL.
Jim R254

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Terry,

I did check the carry through tubes on the Rebel today and they were cut at about a 1/2 inch taper, as near as I could tell. MAM's 2" angle fix covered the ends of the tubes so I could not get a direct measure off the tube. But it's close. Hope that helps.

Bruce 357R

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Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

From: Legeorgen@aol.com
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:59:16 EST
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com

Hi Terry,

I will check my tubes next trip to the plane, probably on Wednesday,
if you can wait that long.

Bruce,

No problem with getting back on Wednesday. I probably won't get back to
work on the Rebel until Thursday anyway. Looking forward to seeing your
dimension.

Thanks in advance.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:34 pm

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> Hello Rebelers:
Thanks to all who responded to my question concerning the
angle of the cutoff of the forward FUS-5 carrythrough ends.
After my initial scanning of the plans, I was concerned about keeping hole
edge distances and had some trepidation of getting the correct
angle/dimension and cutting the carrythrough.
From the emails received, it looks as though the cut on the FUS-5 should be
at 1/2 inch. That is for MY rebel with the full tubes and standard firewall
position. I am also going to research fabricating some "crush blocks" to
insert into the ends of FUS-5.
Hopefully, with the MAM supplied 2 inch reinforcing angles mounted at the
outboard FUS-5 and a couple of crush blocks, it should be a pretty stout
piece.
This is a valuable forum for us builders and flyers. Photos and comments are
great!
Thanks again for the help.
Now back to building.
Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662
Sumner, Washington

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Terry,
I did check the carry through tubes on the Rebel today and they were cut at about a 1/2 inch taper, as near as I could tell. MAM's 2" angle fix covered the ends of the tubes so I could not get a direct measure off the tube. But it's close. Hope that helps.
Bruce 357R

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