Tailwrap doubler

[Joel Jacobs]

Hi,
About that fus-30 tailwrap doubler - In the hints section on wrays rebel
page it mentions a doubler on the .020 tailwrap on older Rebels. Well my
fuse 30 is .032 from the factory. Should I still put the doubler over it
and how thick should the doubler be?

Thanks!

Joel
Rebel 416/EJ-22


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[Bob Patterson]

Probably wouldn't hurt ! Several builders have just ordered
another Fus-30 & trimmed it a bit ....

.025 would be OK, but .032 would be even better - although harder
to work ....

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 02:41 PM 9/20/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi,
About that fus-30 tailwrap doubler - In the hints section on wrays rebel
page it mentions a doubler on the .020 tailwrap on older Rebels. Well my
fuse 30 is .032 from the factory. Should I still put the doubler over it
and how thick should the doubler be?

Thanks!

Joel
Rebel 416/EJ-22


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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Joel,

I think that .020 is a typo, as even #068R out in the hanger has a .032
Fus-30. IMHO it is much better (and easier) to do an extra .032 doubler now,
between the tail post and the spring attach bulkhead, than later when it is
buckled in that area!!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@netexp.net>
To: "Rebel Builders" <Murphy-Rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 2:41 PM
Subject: Tailwrap doubler

Hi,
About that fus-30 tailwrap doubler - In the hints section on wrays rebel
page it mentions a doubler on the .020 tailwrap on older Rebels. Well my
fuse 30 is .032 from the factory. Should I still put the doubler over it
and how thick should the doubler be?

Thanks!

Joel
Rebel 416/EJ-22

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[Joel Jacobs]

Thanks Bob and Wayne,
I'll be sure to put the doubler on there then.

Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwrap doubler

Probably wouldn't hurt ! Several builders have just ordered
another Fus-30 & trimmed it a bit ....

.025 would be OK, but .032 would be even better - although harder
to work ....

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 02:41 PM 9/20/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi,
About that fus-30 tailwrap doubler - In the hints section on wrays rebel
page it mentions a doubler on the .020 tailwrap on older Rebels. Well my
fuse 30 is .032 from the factory. Should I still put the doubler over it
and how thick should the doubler be?

Thanks!

Joel
Rebel 416/EJ-22

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[klehman]

Aha another mystery! That's no typo, Rebel 119 definately had a 0.020
(twenty thou) Fus-30. Rather than use a doubler, I fabricated a new
Fus-30 out of 0.032. If the factory is now shipping an .032 part, then
it sounds like perhaps this is MAM's quiet solution to the doubler issue
that Ontario builders like to incorporate. Has anyone actually had a
problem with an .032 Fus-32??

The Fus-89 triangular pieces have also been added since 119R was shipped
but I would also note that the change to the engine mount bracket on a
one-piece Fus-49 tailspring bulkhead now presumably prevents the forward
tailspring bolt from wiggling back and forth and starting cracks around
that bolt. I've not heard of any cracks or bending at this bolt
attachment point with the new Fus-49 bulkhead arrangement, has anyone
else???

Again, I'm not flying and admittedly I have no desire to do yet more
mods in this area, but I've not heard anything to make me want a doubler
on my .032 Fus-30. I have done ALL the other MAM improvements to this
area though.

Ken


"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Joel,

I think that .020 is a typo, as even #068R out in the hanger has a .032
Fus-30. IMHO it is much better (and easier) to do an extra .032 doubler now,
between the tail post and the spring attach bulkhead, than later when it is
buckled in that area!!!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@netexp.net>
To: "Rebel Builders" <Murphy-Rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 2:41 PM
Subject: Tailwrap doubler

Hi,
About that fus-30 tailwrap doubler - In the hints section on wrays rebel
page it mentions a doubler on the .020 tailwrap on older Rebels. Well my
fuse 30 is .032 from the factory. Should I still put the doubler over it
and how thick should the doubler be?

Thanks!

Joel
Rebel 416/EJ-22

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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The joys of a homebuilt! The final decision is always yours!!!!!

First paragraph YES! Charles D's was starting to show signs of giving in
before I put his .032 doubler over his .032 Fus-30! (aircraft total time
about 32 hours)

Second paragraph. The older "laminated strap" method of doing the tail
spring attach bulkhead actually makes for a stronger bulkhead, if done
properly, than the newer "bath tub" fitting style being supplied now. The
newer style is definitely a lot easier to install though and does give more
"bearing" surface for the attach bolt. I have not seen any cracks on my
Rebel, in this area, with the old strap style bulkhead (or any I have worked
on with either style attach bulkhead). If the AN6 bolt is good and tight it
shouldn't start to move around and crack anything.

If I was going to trade off "mods" in the tail area to save time and weight,
I would have left out the fuselage side extensions into the Fus-30 area and
done the Fus 30 doubler between the post and the spring attach bulkhead
(although in reality I would do both if building new). The MAM side
extensions were done to alleviate buckling, that was caused by the
non-swiveling "hockey puck" tail wheels side loads. The swivel kit or a
good Scott 3200 take care of that!

Like everyone else here, I am only offering my suggestions to this list
(with over 7000 hours of hands on experience on the Rebel alone) and try to
pass on as much "knowledge" as I can to help with the useful longevity of
your aircraft's. But like I said, the final choice is always the builders!

Blue skies,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Tailwrap doubler

Aha another mystery! That's no typo, Rebel 119 definately had a 0.020
(twenty thou) Fus-30. Rather than use a doubler, I fabricated a new
Fus-30 out of 0.032. If the factory is now shipping an .032 part, then
it sounds like perhaps this is MAM's quiet solution to the doubler issue
that Ontario builders like to incorporate. Has anyone actually had a
problem with an .032 Fus-32??

The Fus-89 triangular pieces have also been added since 119R was shipped
but I would also note that the change to the engine mount bracket on a
one-piece Fus-49 tailspring bulkhead now presumably prevents the forward
tailspring bolt from wiggling back and forth and starting cracks around
that bolt. I've not heard of any cracks or bending at this bolt
attachment point with the new Fus-49 bulkhead arrangement, has anyone
else???

Again, I'm not flying and admittedly I have no desire to do yet more
mods in this area, but I've not heard anything to make me want a doubler
on my .032 Fus-30. I have done ALL the other MAM improvements to this
area though.

Ken

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[LisaFly99]

In a message dated 9/23/00 3:26:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
oifa@irishfield.on.ca writes:

<< Like everyone else here, I am only offering my suggestions to this list
(with over 7000 hours of hands on experience on the Rebel alone) and try to
pass on as much "knowledge" as I can to help with the useful longevity of
your aircraft's. But like I said, the final choice is always the builders!
WAYNE
And it is GREATLY appreciated too.!!!
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D
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[klehman]

Wayne

I also appreciate the info and opinions from everyone on this list. I
have learned about quite a few upgraded parts and improvements on this
list and it all helps, especially since each change seeems to cascade
into several related changes. I realize that nothing will resist a
really hard arrival, but I thought a doubler on the 0.020 part or a
0.032 part had solved this problem. I do have the swivelling tail wheel
mod, but I am flabbergasted that 0.032 Fus-30's may have been available
prior to 119R and are now standard.

If up-to-date blueprints ever become available, I'd definately purchase
a set.

Ken

First paragraph YES! Charles D's was starting to show signs of giving in
before I put his .032 doubler over his .032 Fus-30! (aircraft total time
about 32 hours)

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 167 members of
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Ken, I'm quite sure that #068R has a .032 Fus-30, but it was factory built
(1992) and to say the least as I work along on it's TOTAL refurb, I have
found SEVERAL things do not match the manual on this aircraft. Some scary
stuff like no fuel strainers in the tanks (and reducer bushings that I
presume were to fake the strainers existance for T.C. inspections) and 1/4"
fuel lines out of the tanks, and other parts that are installed radically
different than spelled out in the manuals. Maybe I am wrong about It's
Fus-30 thickness and I will "mic" it tomorrow. Seemed pretty stiff to be
only .020, so I presume it's .032. I will let you know tommorow.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwrap doubler

Wayne

I also appreciate the info and opinions from everyone on this list. I
have learned about quite a few upgraded parts and improvements on this
list and it all helps, especially since each change seeems to cascade
into several related changes. I realize that nothing will resist a
really hard arrival, but I thought a doubler on the 0.020 part or a
0.032 part had solved this problem. I do have the swivelling tail wheel
mod, but I am flabbergasted that 0.032 Fus-30's may have been available
prior to 119R and are now standard.

If up-to-date blueprints ever become available, I'd definately purchase
a set.

Ken

First paragraph YES! Charles D's was starting to show signs of giving in
before I put his .032 doubler over his .032 Fus-30! (aircraft total time
about 32 hours)

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[Bob Patterson]

Ken,
Maybe I can relieve some of your pain, and shed a little
light on the reason there are several different 'things' on #068R,
that Wayne is working on ...

Although it has an earlier serial number, it is very likely
that #068R was built AFTER #119R was shipped ! #068R is one of only a
few Rebels that were built in BC in a building near the old factory,
mostly by factory staff. Since they were planning to build these,
I believe that a block of serial numbers were set aside for this
purpose, although the actual construction didn't take place until
much later ... so several 'improvements' were added to these aircraft
as standard kits were updated.

Many of the Rebel components have gone up to .032 because
this is the thickness used on the Elite, and Murphy have chosen
to reduce the parts count in inventory, and reduce the chances of
grabbing the wrong part, by stocking only the thicker parts, and
supplying them for all models (except the Ultralight Rebel, for
which parts are specially marked ...).

Complete new manuals are available on CD, in MS-WORD format,
for $42.90 CAD ($28.95 USD), for those who want an inexpensive
way to see what's different ... A word of caution: As some of you
know, some of the older kits CANNOT be built using the newer instructions,
as there WERE some major changes in wing construction, etc. ... !!


Hope this helps !
.....bobp


-----------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 07:27 PM 9/23/00 -0400, you wrote:

Wayne

I also appreciate the info and opinions from everyone on this list. I
have learned about quite a few upgraded parts and improvements on this
list and it all helps, especially since each change seeems to cascade
into several related changes. I realize that nothing will resist a
really hard arrival, but I thought a doubler on the 0.020 part or a
0.032 part had solved this problem. I do have the swivelling tail wheel
mod, but I am flabbergasted that 0.032 Fus-30's may have been available
prior to 119R and are now standard.

If up-to-date blueprints ever become available, I'd definately purchase
a set.

Ken

First paragraph YES! Charles D's was starting to show signs of giving in
before I put his .032 doubler over his .032 Fus-30! (aircraft total time
about 32 hours)

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Ken, Yes the original Fus-30 on #068R is definitley .032" thick but, as Bob
has noted, it is quite possible that your kit was shipped before this one
was built.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tailwrap doubler

Ken,
Maybe I can relieve some of your pain, and shed a little
light on the reason there are several different 'things' on #068R,
that Wayne is working on ...

Although it has an earlier serial number, it is very likely
that #068R was built AFTER #119R was shipped ! #068R is one of only a
few Rebels that were built in BC in a building near the old factory,
mostly by factory staff. Since they were planning to build these,
I believe that a block of serial numbers were set aside for this
purpose, although the actual construction didn't take place until
much later ... so several 'improvements' were added to these aircraft
as standard kits were updated.

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[klehman]

Wayne
Thanks for checking the thickness of the tailwrap.

Bob
I'll order a new manual on CD. It may be helpful, especially if MAM
continues to post their changes on the website.
The drawings would be even more helpful so I could see what parts have
been upgraded, but I guess that is hoping for too much. MAM has always
been good about providing specific info when I've asked, but this is
another example of not knowing what question to ask. Perhaps MAM would
consider adding specific info in the manual that would allow a builder
to identify upgraded parts. ie. the current thickness of corner wraps
and tailwraps, a measurement or diagram for upgraded bellcranks, etc.
This would not be required for parts that have not been changed, just
for parts that have been upgraded to improve something.

Ken

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[Bob Patterson]

Ken,

I hope tech suport have noted the concerns about marking revisions
in the documentation. I suppose this would mean implementing a different
part numbering system, with revision numbers added to the parts....

In many cases, the changes that we discuss, like the corner
wrap thickness, were not done by the factory because they necessarily
thought they were 'improvements' - they just wanted to make the
factory more efficient by making only ONE part. They chose the thicker
wraps used on the Elite, which DO have a different part number. (Can
never remember what it is .... :-( )

I suppose cross checking the part numbers in the new docs with
those you already have will highlight any changes - although not necessarily
the reasons for the change. Not the easiest, but at least it is possible.

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.------------------------------------------
At 06:55 PM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote:

Wayne
Thanks for checking the thickness of the tailwrap.

Bob
I'll order a new manual on CD. It may be helpful, especially if MAM
continues to post their changes on the website.
The drawings would be even more helpful so I could see what parts have
been upgraded, but I guess that is hoping for too much. MAM has always
been good about providing specific info when I've asked, but this is
another example of not knowing what question to ask. Perhaps MAM would
consider adding specific info in the manual that would allow a builder
to identify upgraded parts. ie. the current thickness of corner wraps
and tailwraps, a measurement or diagram for upgraded bellcranks, etc.
This would not be required for parts that have not been changed, just
for parts that have been upgraded to improve something.

Ken

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[Rebflyer]

Hi Bob,
I did a little more research on the Harmonic balancer that we talked
about. I got ahold of Rick Engvall who is running a o-320 160 hp. with a warp
drive and he cracked his prop in the first 10 hrs of use. After alot of
research on his part he talked to a company that runs an ad in sport
aviation. His name is Mark Landoll and the phone is 405-392-3847. It came
from drag racing where they run it to counteract the torque in the
crankshaft,or somthing like that. He is very free with his info according to
Rick, and Rick says his 0-320 now runs like silk. Cost ? Well, it weighs
12lbs and bolts to the starter ring. Price? 375.00 US Hope that was a help.
Curt N97MR
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