pulleys

[klehman]

Hi

I am wondering if there is a pulley smaller than the 1.75" MS20220-1 pulley
that might be acceptable for use on the rudder cables where the rear cabin
angles inward behind the seats?

ASS lists a 1" diameter A223 pulley that will take a 1/8" cable but it is just a
plain phenolic pulley without a bearing. I am wondering if something like that
might be better than the fair leads or if it is even an acceptable use. If I use
a pulley, I would like to keep it as small as possible. The large fair leads
probably bend the cable with a larger radius than a small pulley though.

If anyone needs pulleys for elevator cables, I ordered the M-660-000 from
Wag-Aero at $1.75, and received new 4.25" MS20220-3 pulleys. Shipping adds a bit
but they are cdn$40. locally.

Ken
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[LisaFly99]

KEN
I made pulleys for my rudder cables out of 1" derlon round bar stock. And
made brackets for them out of alum. shaped like a stretched out diamond bent
twice just off center enough to have room to rivet in place. Looked like a
triangle when thru.
I was looking at my CUB CADET tracked driven snow blower and there are small
pulleys for the track control cables that might be worth looking in to. You
would still have to make brackets. Best of luck to you any way. PS the
pulleys seem to cut down on a lot of friction on the rudder cables.
Phil&Lisa
Smith #460 N414D
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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Ken and All,

FYI, I have new 220-3's for $20 each cdn. (and various other pulleys) plus
shipping and $7.50 handling. (Wag Aero charges shipping plus $6 US handling)
Don't know why you are using a pulley this big however, but probably because
Wag Aero honoured a typo error in their catalogue. Who wouldn't! The 1 1/2"
(I believe 210-3's) that MAM started supplying after every Canadian aircraft
was being snagged at final inspection, were this size. Problem is they only
supply 2 for the rear cone area elevator cables. You need a minimum of 3
more! This size works fine at the fuselage bend for rudder cables and you
should also use at least one to bring the upper elevator cable down to the
floor off the control column. A tandem set, for both elevator cables, here
is cleaner and stronger right between the seats. WE ARE TALKING PLAIN REBELS
HERE, for the Elite and SR folks reading this on the list. I think the Elite
is rigged the same though!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea - Rebel 243R and various others!
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, March 18, 2000 9:33 AM
Subject: pulleys

If anyone needs pulleys for elevator cables, I ordered the M-660-000 from
Wag-Aero at $1.75, and received new 4.25" MS20220-3 pulleys. Shipping adds

a bit

but they are cdn$40. locally.

Ken

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[Bob Patterson]

I wouldn't worry too much about the delrin fairleads - I have no wear
on either the cable or the failead in almost 1,000 hours of flying !
(FWIW - I don't have ANY pulleys on #001 !! Not even for the elevator -
just the Delrin fairleads - and it was passed by a DOT inspector .... )

Adding extra pulleys will likely just add extra maintenance somewhere
down the line.
.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:29 AM 3/18/00 -0500, you wrote:

Hi

I am wondering if there is a pulley smaller than the 1.75" MS20220-1 pulley
that might be acceptable for use on the rudder cables where the rear cabin
angles inward behind the seats?

ASS lists a 1" diameter A223 pulley that will take a 1/8" cable but it is

just a

plain phenolic pulley without a bearing. I am wondering if something like that
might be better than the fair leads or if it is even an acceptable use. If

I use

a pulley, I would like to keep it as small as possible. The large fair leads
probably bend the cable with a larger radius than a small pulley though.

If anyone needs pulleys for elevator cables, I ordered the M-660-000 from
Wag-Aero at $1.75, and received new 4.25" MS20220-3 pulleys. Shipping adds

a bit

but they are cdn$40. locally.

Ken
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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[Jesse Jenks]

I noticed in the ASS catalog that the MS24566-3B used at the rear of the
elevator system are not supposed to be used to change cable direction more
than 15*. By my guestimate the bottom cable is about 20* and the top about
30*. Are people using bigger pulleys, or are the 2" ones OK?
Thanks,
Jesse





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

They're fine Jesse!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 11:13 PM
Subject: pulleys

I noticed in the ASS catalog that the MS24566-3B used at the rear of the
elevator system are not supposed to be used to change cable direction more
than 15*. By my guestimate the bottom cable is about 20* and the top about
30*. Are people using bigger pulleys, or are the 2" ones OK?
Thanks,
Jesse





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[Jesse Jenks]

I figured they must be OK, especially since the manual has you using nylon
cable guides to take all the load at the front end where the top cable
comes down off the control column to the floor, which must be at least 20*.
I'm going to put pulleys there as well.
I have all but decided to do under-floor cables. The more I look at it after
laying out the fuselage bottom it seems like a really easy mod, and I feel
will be worth it.

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: pulleys
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:18:33 -0500

They're fine Jesse!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 11:13 PM
Subject: pulleys

I noticed in the ASS catalog that the MS24566-3B used at the rear of the
elevator system are not supposed to be used to change cable direction

more

than 15*. By my guestimate the bottom cable is about 20* and the top

about

30*. Are people using bigger pulleys, or are the 2" ones OK?
Thanks,
Jesse





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[Ken]

I scratched my head over that too and decided to conform to AC43.13 and
use a larger pulley. I think it was Wicks that used to sell a large one
cheaper than the small one. At least make sure you can easilly inspect
the cable for fraying if you use the small pulley. Could buried cables
become an issue if the inspector or a prospective purchaser also notices
an undersize pulley?? Probably not but you never know. I think I might
have moved those pulleys farther forward than some folks to match the
angles of the elevator bellcrank and help preserve uniform cable tension...
Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I figured they must be OK, especially since the manual has you using nylon
cable guides to take all the load at the front end where the top cable
comes down off the control column to the floor, which must be at least 20*.
I'm going to put pulleys there as well.
I have all but decided to do under-floor cables. The more I look at it after
laying out the fuselage bottom it seems like a really easy mod, and I feel
will be worth it.

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[Jesse Jenks]

Ken,
I have devised a way to be able to inspect the full length of the cables
with only two inspection holes in the floor. If the holes are placed
correctly you should be able to (after disconnecting at the rear end) pull a
length of the cable, about 36" worth, out of the hole to inspect. Then go
forward to the next hole and pull the slack out at that point, inspect, and
finally go to the front end where they come out of the floor and pull em out
there. To allow for a full cable replacement I would run the cables inside
Nylaflow tubing (except in the two bays with inspection holes) which would
also act as fairleads through the floor channels.
What do you think?
Jesse

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: pulleys
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:29:45 -0500

I scratched my head over that too and decided to conform to AC43.13 and
use a larger pulley. I think it was Wicks that used to sell a large one
cheaper than the small one. At least make sure you can easilly inspect
the cable for fraying if you use the small pulley. Could buried cables
become an issue if the inspector or a prospective purchaser also notices
an undersize pulley?? Probably not but you never know. I think I might
have moved those pulleys farther forward than some folks to match the
angles of the elevator bellcrank and help preserve uniform cable tension...
Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

I figured they must be OK, especially since the manual has you using

nylon

cable guides to take all the load at the front end where the top cable
comes down off the control column to the floor, which must be at least

20*.

I'm going to put pulleys there as well.
I have all but decided to do under-floor cables. The more I look at it

after

laying out the fuselage bottom it seems like a really easy mod, and I

feel

will be worth it.

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[eric.r]

Ahhh ... cables inside tubing: Did I ever tell you about the gear uplock cables
in the Bonanza with about two or three inches "protected" inside tubing? Yup,
that's where they corroded and failed! (inspected every year by an IA.
Apparently IA stood for Idiot Assistant to the guy in the office who signs the
logs) Also a little trick I learned from a seasoned IA is to be sure and turn the
pulleys during inspection, so that they ride on a different portion after every
check.
On 1/25/2006 3:50 PM, jessejenks@hotmail.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken,
-> I have devised a way to be able to inspect the full length of the cables
-> with only two inspection holes in the floor. If the holes are placed
-> correctly you should be able to (after disconnecting at the rear end) pull a
-> length of the cable, about 36" worth, out of the hole to inspect. Then go
-> forward to the next hole and pull the slack out at that point, inspect, and
-> finally go to the front end where they come out of the floor and pull em
out
-> there. To allow for a full cable replacement I would run the cables inside
-> Nylaflow tubing (except in the two bays with inspection holes) which
would
-> also act as fairleads through the floor channels.
-> What do you think?
-> Jesse
->
->
-> >From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
-> >Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> >To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> >Subject: Re: pulleys
-> >Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:29:45 -0500
-> >
-> >I scratched my head over that too and decided to conform to AC43.13
and
-> >use a larger pulley. I think it was Wicks that used to sell a large one
-> >cheaper than the small one. At least make sure you can easilly inspect
-> >the cable for fraying if you use the small pulley. Could buried cables
-> >become an issue if the inspector or a prospective purchaser also notices
-> >an undersize pulley?? Probably not but you never know. I think I might
-> >have moved those pulleys farther forward than some folks to match the
-> >angles of the elevator bellcrank and help preserve uniform cable tension...
-> >Ken
-> >
-> >Jesse Jenks wrote:
-> >
-> > >I figured they must be OK, especially since the manual has you using
-> >nylon
-> > >cable guides to take all the load at the front end where the top cable
-> > >comes down off the control column to the floor, which must be at least
-> >20*.
-> > >I'm going to put pulleys there as well.
-> > >I have all but decided to do under-floor cables. The more I look at it
-> >after
-> > >laying out the fuselage bottom it seems like a really easy mod, and I
-> >feel
-> > >will be worth it.
-> > >
-> > >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->





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[Jesse Jenks]

Eric,
Sounds like a sticky situation. Thanks for the pulley inspection tip.
Jesse

From: eric.r@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: pulleys
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 05:45:48 -0900

Ahhh ... cables inside tubing: Did I ever tell you about the gear uplock
cables
in the Bonanza with about two or three inches "protected" inside tubing?
Yup,
that's where they corroded and failed! (inspected every year by an IA.
Apparently IA stood for Idiot Assistant to the guy in the office who signs
the
logs) Also a little trick I learned from a seasoned IA is to be sure and
turn the
pulleys during inspection, so that they ride on a different portion after
every
check.
On 1/25/2006 3:50 PM, jessejenks@hotmail.com wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Ken,
-> I have devised a way to be able to inspect the full length of the cables
-> with only two inspection holes in the floor. If the holes are placed
-> correctly you should be able to (after disconnecting at the rear end)
pull a
-> length of the cable, about 36" worth, out of the hole to inspect. Then
go
-> forward to the next hole and pull the slack out at that point, inspect,
and
-> finally go to the front end where they come out of the floor and pull em
out
-> there. To allow for a full cable replacement I would run the cables
inside
-> Nylaflow tubing (except in the two bays with inspection holes) which
would
-> also act as fairleads through the floor channels.
-> What do you think?
-> Jesse
->
->
-> >From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
-> >Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> >To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> >Subject: Re: pulleys
-> >Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:29:45 -0500
-> >
-> >I scratched my head over that too and decided to conform to AC43.13
and
-> >use a larger pulley. I think it was Wicks that used to sell a large one
-> >cheaper than the small one. At least make sure you can easilly inspect
-> >the cable for fraying if you use the small pulley. Could buried cables
-> >become an issue if the inspector or a prospective purchaser also
notices
-> >an undersize pulley?? Probably not but you never know. I think I might
-> >have moved those pulleys farther forward than some folks to match the
-> >angles of the elevator bellcrank and help preserve uniform cable
tension...
-> >Ken
-> >
-> >Jesse Jenks wrote:
-> >
-> > >I figured they must be OK, especially since the manual has you using
-> >nylon
-> > >cable guides to take all the load at the front end where the top
cable
-> > >comes down off the control column to the floor, which must be at
least
-> >20*.
-> > >I'm going to put pulleys there as well.
-> > >I have all but decided to do under-floor cables. The more I look at
it
-> >after
-> > >laying out the fuselage bottom it seems like a really easy mod, and I
-> >feel
-> > >will be worth it.
-> > >
-> > >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->





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[Ken]

I have MS24556-3B 2" pulleys in my float rigging kit. That is what the
shipping list shows as well.

From memory I think 2" is the minimum size for primary flight controls
but I doubt that includes water rudders.

Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Thanks for the heads up Eric. A few places that this problem has "reared
it's head" including float rigging kits that have been shipped with the
BB-128's instead of the smaller pulleys. PITA when you realize this after
you have made all the brackets for the rear strut and spreader bar.

Wayne

snip




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[Roland Kriening]

I have one of the early rebel kits that did not come with pulleys. Can
someone point me in the right direction as to what type of pulleys to buy
and where to get them. I am starting the tail cone and noticed in the
updated plans there is a pulley at the second last bulkhead station...

Roland
R56





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