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[rebel-builders] Re math question

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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] Re math question

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 am

At 09:21 AM 6/7/2006 +1000, you wrote:
Sorry all, just my warped Aussie sense of humour, down here the fifth
force is called the Civil Aviation Safety Authority. In Canada it would
be Transport Canada, and in the US, the FAA.
John R 804
You hit the nail on the head John. I met with the fifth force on monday and
my plane won't fly again until the weight of the paperwork equals the gross
weight of the plane. :( You were right Wayne I should have delt with
toronto.
Drew



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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] Re math question

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 am

Told you I heard the guy you were dealing with could be a prick. I don't
understand why everyone of these guys with "God syndrome" has to re-invent
the wheel. Anyone in Ontario looking for changes to your C of A......deal
with Wayne Juniper or his new disciple....Jeff Langford. Couldn't ask for a
better couple of guys from TC.

Engine change....I haven't had a TC guy "offer" to leave his office to come
witness my work (ie do an inspection) since 1998 for that one. New W&B /
equipment list and a Climb Test. The climb test is stupid...but a
requirement I guess to be sure you're really getting 50% more horsepower
than what you removed :O) ! The key is to cover your ass...do the install
and get your W & B / Equipment list all done and sent off to TC with a cover
letter stating exactly what you are going to do. In my case I always tell
them I am flying the airplane for 10 to 25 hours passenger
free..blah..blah...blah. Technically illegal since the C of A states the
engine on the airplane...so it's technically invalid as soon as you change
the engine. My tact is if they don't call you immediately when they read
your paperwork they have accepted it and you should be okay with your
insurance company...and I have enough precidence doing this without question
or scolding by TC that I have a paper trail to cover the insurance issue. By
the regs the airplane is supposed to remain grounded until you have a new C
of A showing the new engine. You might miss a whole summer of flying if you
go that route...so govern youself accordingly.

Gross weight increase has enough precedence now that it should be a no
brainer considering the number of Rebels in Ontario at 2000 lbs already and
Elites at 2200. Same deal there...nothing needed but a new W & B showing
typical loading scenarios and a new "initial application for an amateur
built aircraft" with the new weights filled in, new wing loading etc and all
the other stuff like min horsepower etc that needs to be calculated on the
form. You will also be required to do a climb test at the new Gross weight
and I "suspect" you'll see 550 FPM to 580FPM...at least I hope you will so
they match what I've sent for all of them ! :O) That said...you can fly it
'till the cows come home at 1650 until your new C of A comes showing your
requested weight. You may also have to pay the $45 to get a flight test
permit allowing you to fly at your requested weight to do the climb test.
Then once it's sent in they'll issue the new C of A at the higher gross
you've requested.

Maybe you should have done the engine and then the GW increase seperately
Drew...but killing both at the same time made much more sense...at least
until you took your stuff to Hayes in London!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re math question

At 09:21 AM 6/7/2006 +1000, you wrote:
Sorry all, just my warped Aussie sense of humour, down here the fifth
force is called the Civil Aviation Safety Authority. In Canada it would
be Transport Canada, and in the US, the FAA.
John R 804
You hit the nail on the head John. I met with the fifth force on monday
and
my plane won't fly again until the weight of the paperwork equals the
gross
weight of the plane. :( You were right Wayne I should have delt with
toronto.
Drew



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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] Re math question

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 am

He's just by the book. I really shouldn't complain too loudly cuz he hasn't
said no to my gross weight increase yet. He just wants all the paper work
he can dream up. Equipment list with weights and arms, application for a
new CofA, Weight and balance or wheels and floats plus the weight of the
floats and the wheel gear. Just so he can check my math.I'm still on strike
at work so I think I'll write a book and bury him with paper. And I'm still
waiting for my ignition. And there's just enough difference between my old
baffles and thee new engine that I think it'll be quicker to start from
scratch. And the alternator mount is completely different. :(

Am I still invited to your camp if I come by canoe?



At 09:04 PM 6/6/2006 -0400, you wrote:
Told you I heard the guy you were dealing with could be a prick. I don't
understand why everyone of these guys with "God syndrome" has to re-invent
the wheel. Anyone in Ontario looking for changes to your C of A......deal
with Wayne Juniper or his new disciple....Jeff Langford. Couldn't ask for a
better couple of guys from TC.

Engine change....I haven't had a TC guy "offer" to leave his office to come
witness my work (ie do an inspection) since 1998 for that one. New W&B /
equipment list and a Climb Test. The climb test is stupid...but a
requirement I guess to be sure you're really getting 50% more horsepower
than what you removed :O) ! The key is to cover your ass...do the install
and get your W & B / Equipment list all done and sent off to TC with a cover
letter stating exactly what you are going to do. In my case I always tell
them I am flying the airplane for 10 to 25 hours passenger
free..blah..blah...blah. Technically illegal since the C of A states the
engine on the airplane...so it's technically invalid as soon as you change
the engine. My tact is if they don't call you immediately when they read
your paperwork they have accepted it and you should be okay with your
insurance company...and I have enough precidence doing this without question
or scolding by TC that I have a paper trail to cover the insurance issue. By
the regs the airplane is supposed to remain grounded until you have a new C
of A showing the new engine. You might miss a whole summer of flying if you
go that route...so govern youself accordingly.

Gross weight increase has enough precedence now that it should be a no
brainer considering the number of Rebels in Ontario at 2000 lbs already and
Elites at 2200. Same deal there...nothing needed but a new W & B showing
typical loading scenarios and a new "initial application for an amateur
built aircraft" with the new weights filled in, new wing loading etc and all
the other stuff like min horsepower etc that needs to be calculated on the
form. You will also be required to do a climb test at the new Gross weight
and I "suspect" you'll see 550 FPM to 580FPM...at least I hope you will so
they match what I've sent for all of them ! :O) That said...you can fly it
'till the cows come home at 1650 until your new C of A comes showing your
requested weight. You may also have to pay the $45 to get a flight test
permit allowing you to fly at your requested weight to do the climb test.
Then once it's sent in they'll issue the new C of A at the higher gross
you've requested.

Maybe you should have done the engine and then the GW increase seperately
Drew...but killing both at the same time made much more sense...at least
until you took your stuff to Hayes in London!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re math question

At 09:21 AM 6/7/2006 +1000, you wrote:
Sorry all, just my warped Aussie sense of humour, down here the fifth
force is called the Civil Aviation Safety Authority. In Canada it would
be Transport Canada, and in the US, the FAA.
John R 804
You hit the nail on the head John. I met with the fifth force on monday
and
my plane won't fly again until the weight of the paperwork equals the
gross
weight of the plane. :( You were right Wayne I should have delt with
toronto.
Drew



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Drew



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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] Re math question

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 am

Yep....I'll send you the Temagami Canoe route map ! Be easier going home
down the Montreal or Sturgeon River than it will be coming up !!
:O)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re math question

He's just by the book. I really shouldn't complain too loudly cuz he
hasn't
said no to my gross weight increase yet. He just wants all the paper work
he can dream up. Equipment list with weights and arms, application for a
new CofA, Weight and balance or wheels and floats plus the weight of the
floats and the wheel gear. Just so he can check my math.I'm still on
strike
at work so I think I'll write a book and bury him with paper. And I'm
still
waiting for my ignition. And there's just enough difference between my old
baffles and thee new engine that I think it'll be quicker to start from
scratch. And the alternator mount is completely different. :(

Am I still invited to your camp if I come by canoe?



At 09:04 PM 6/6/2006 -0400, you wrote:
Told you I heard the guy you were dealing with could be a prick. I don't
understand why everyone of these guys with "God syndrome" has to
re-invent
the wheel. Anyone in Ontario looking for changes to your C of A......deal
with Wayne Juniper or his new disciple....Jeff Langford. Couldn't ask for
a
better couple of guys from TC.

Engine change....I haven't had a TC guy "offer" to leave his office to
come
witness my work (ie do an inspection) since 1998 for that one. New W&B /
equipment list and a Climb Test. The climb test is stupid...but a
requirement I guess to be sure you're really getting 50% more horsepower
than what you removed :O) ! The key is to cover your ass...do the install
and get your W & B / Equipment list all done and sent off to TC with a
cover
letter stating exactly what you are going to do. In my case I always tell
them I am flying the airplane for 10 to 25 hours passenger
free..blah..blah...blah. Technically illegal since the C of A states the
engine on the airplane...so it's technically invalid as soon as you
change
the engine. My tact is if they don't call you immediately when they read
your paperwork they have accepted it and you should be okay with your
insurance company...and I have enough precidence doing this without
question
or scolding by TC that I have a paper trail to cover the insurance issue.
By
the regs the airplane is supposed to remain grounded until you have a new
C
of A showing the new engine. You might miss a whole summer of flying if
you
go that route...so govern youself accordingly.

Gross weight increase has enough precedence now that it should be a no
brainer considering the number of Rebels in Ontario at 2000 lbs already
and
Elites at 2200. Same deal there...nothing needed but a new W & B showing
typical loading scenarios and a new "initial application for an amateur
built aircraft" with the new weights filled in, new wing loading etc and
all
the other stuff like min horsepower etc that needs to be calculated on
the
form. You will also be required to do a climb test at the new Gross
weight
and I "suspect" you'll see 550 FPM to 580FPM...at least I hope you will
so
they match what I've sent for all of them ! :O) That said...you can fly
it
'till the cows come home at 1650 until your new C of A comes showing your
requested weight. You may also have to pay the $45 to get a flight test
permit allowing you to fly at your requested weight to do the climb test.
Then once it's sent in they'll issue the new C of A at the higher gross
you've requested.

Maybe you should have done the engine and then the GW increase seperately
Drew...but killing both at the same time made much more sense...at least
until you took your stuff to Hayes in London!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re math question

At 09:21 AM 6/7/2006 +1000, you wrote:
would
You hit the nail on the head John. I met with the fifth force on monday
and
my plane won't fly again until the weight of the paperwork equals the
gross
weight of the plane. :( You were right Wayne I should have delt with
toronto.
Drew



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Drew



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Ken

[rebel-builders] Re math question

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:53 am

Different section I guess but I'm not doing any better Drew.
Four weeks ago I delivered the paper for a C of R.
Last week I was fourth in line for it.
This week I am third in line...

My local friends are telling me to start a new project while I wait and
my Montreal friends are telling me that their Quebec region will issue a
C of R while they wait at the counter!

Anyway I've been giving a wee bit of thought to the subject math
question and it still seems to me that Va would remain at 95 knots at
2000 lbs. However it might be appropriate to drop the top of the green
arc (Vno) to preserve the regulative integrity of that number which is
indeed based on a 30 ft./sec vertical gust (moderate turbulence). My
math suggests that 100 knots (115mph) instead of 110 knots might be an
appropriate Vno at 2000 lbs. if I'm thinking along the correct lines ??

Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
At 09:21 AM 6/7/2006 +1000, you wrote:

Sorry all, just my warped Aussie sense of humour, down here the fifth
force is called the Civil Aviation Safety Authority. In Canada it would
be Transport Canada, and in the US, the FAA.
John R 804


You hit the nail on the head John. I met with the fifth force on monday and
my plane won't fly again until the weight of the paperwork equals the gross
weight of the plane. :( You were right Wayne I should have delt with
toronto.
Drew








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