Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

N.Smith · Post by **N.Smith** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Hi All

Today I borrowed a nicopress tool to do the rudder and elevator cable ends
at the rear, and after a bit of thought I managed to get both the rudder
ones done correctly so was happy to climb inside and rivet down all the
nylon cable guides along the inner FUS that were currently still clecoed in
place.

To assist in gaining access to the cables and rear guides I'd removed the
top skin just in front of the fin that again had been clecoed in place till
all the cables were done.

Unfortunately I'd not bothered to put supports under the FUS rib lines at
the tail after removing this top cover, and the aircraft was just sitting on
its wheels (SG and tail).

The result when I was halfway down the inside of the tailcone speak for
themselves - don't try this yourselves :-)

dcsol files area/elite/e-fuselage/tail fail.jpg

Looking on the bright side, I reckon it is not as bad as it initially looks.
The stab and rudder are undamaged. The fin is probably OK if I can unrivet
it carefully. The upper doubler and elevator pulley assembly can hopefully
be reused when removed from the solid bulkhead, and the stab support
bulkheads should be OK.

Severe damage to dignity :-)

I will definitely be shopping on Monday for 2 more side skins, a new solid
bulkhead, 2 more tail cone side supports, a new lower tailcone skin. and 4
bulkhead quarters to replace the last FUS bulkhead, and a few rivets.

I'll possibly add to that list as I dismantle it tomorrow and see if
anything else is damaged.

Stupid mistake on my part - just hope others can learn from my mistake and
not do the same thing themselves.

Nigel
745E

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Well lad...you're stomach quit rolling yet???? Can't even send my brother
over to down some Guinness with you..... as he's back home in Orangeville
for the winter.

Really, really, sad sight to see Nig.....and it gives you some appreciation
of how much load that little (missing) piece of .020 takes when it makes
that D shape.

Not being rude...but how much do you weigh? I know others than have snuck
down there before...but maybe they had it supported under the cone forward
of your mess.

Don't know if you need to get as drastic as extracting the entire side
panels. Give Robin/Darryl a ding for confirmation....but I would think if
you go to the bulkhead forward of the buckle and overlap beyond it say 3
inches.....to get triple/quad properly pitched rows of rivets into it you
would be fine. Leave enough old skin when you trim the damaged area off
behind the bulkhead for a row or two of rivets, one on the bulhead and
another couple in front.

Make sure you run to town quick...gotta be close to closing time for the
beer store to close over there!

Take care,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Hi All

Today I borrowed a nicopress tool to do the rudder and elevator cable ends
at the rear, and after a bit of thought I managed to get both the rudder
ones done correctly so was happy to climb inside and rivet down all the
nylon cable guides along the inner FUS that were currently still clecoed

in

place.

To assist in gaining access to the cables and rear guides I'd removed the
top skin just in front of the fin that again had been clecoed in place

till

all the cables were done.

Unfortunately I'd not bothered to put supports under the FUS rib lines at
the tail after removing this top cover, and the aircraft was just sitting

on

its wheels (SG and tail).

The result when I was halfway down the inside of the tailcone speak for
themselves - don't try this yourselves :-)

dcsol files area/elite/e-fuselage/tail fail.jpg

Looking on the bright side, I reckon it is not as bad as it initially

looks.

The stab and rudder are undamaged. The fin is probably OK if I can unrivet
it carefully. The upper doubler and elevator pulley assembly can hopefully
be reused when removed from the solid bulkhead, and the stab support
bulkheads should be OK.

Severe damage to dignity :-)

I will definitely be shopping on Monday for 2 more side skins, a new solid
bulkhead, 2 more tail cone side supports, a new lower tailcone skin. and 4
bulkhead quarters to replace the last FUS bulkhead, and a few rivets.

I'll possibly add to that list as I dismantle it tomorrow and see if
anything else is damaged.

Stupid mistake on my part - just hope others can learn from my mistake and
not do the same thing themselves.

Nigel
745E

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N.Smith · Post by **N.Smith** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Thanks Wayne...already started on the beer's :-)

I'll take a look again in daylight tomorrow...like you say, maybe not as big
a job as I thought.

168 lbs and a rivet gun - halfway down the tail cone when it happened !

Thanks for your advice (both the plane and the beer).

Nig

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 05 November 2005 17:22
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Well lad...you're stomach quit rolling yet???? Can't even send my brother
over to down some Guinness with you..... as he's back home in Orangeville
for the winter.

Really, really, sad sight to see Nig.....and it gives you some appreciation
of how much load that little (missing) piece of .020 takes when it makes
that D shape.

Not being rude...but how much do you weigh? I know others than have snuck
down there before...but maybe they had it supported under the cone forward
of your mess.

Don't know if you need to get as drastic as extracting the entire side
panels. Give Robin/Darryl a ding for confirmation....but I would think if
you go to the bulkhead forward of the buckle and overlap beyond it say 3
inches.....to get triple/quad properly pitched rows of rivets into it you
would be fine. Leave enough old skin when you trim the damaged area off
behind the bulkhead for a row or two of rivets, one on the bulhead and
another couple in front.

Make sure you run to town quick...gotta be close to closing time for the
beer store to close over there!

Take care,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Hi All

Today I borrowed a nicopress tool to do the rudder and elevator cable ends
at the rear, and after a bit of thought I managed to get both the rudder
ones done correctly so was happy to climb inside and rivet down all the
nylon cable guides along the inner FUS that were currently still clecoed

in

place.

To assist in gaining access to the cables and rear guides I'd removed the
top skin just in front of the fin that again had been clecoed in place

till

all the cables were done.

Unfortunately I'd not bothered to put supports under the FUS rib lines at
the tail after removing this top cover, and the aircraft was just sitting

on

its wheels (SG and tail).

The result when I was halfway down the inside of the tailcone speak for
themselves - don't try this yourselves :-)

dcsol files area/elite/e-fuselage/tail fail.jpg

Looking on the bright side, I reckon it is not as bad as it initially

looks.

The stab and rudder are undamaged. The fin is probably OK if I can unrivet
it carefully. The upper doubler and elevator pulley assembly can hopefully
be reused when removed from the solid bulkhead, and the stab support
bulkheads should be OK.

Severe damage to dignity :-)

I will definitely be shopping on Monday for 2 more side skins, a new solid
bulkhead, 2 more tail cone side supports, a new lower tailcone skin. and 4
bulkhead quarters to replace the last FUS bulkhead, and a few rivets.

I'll possibly add to that list as I dismantle it tomorrow and see if
anything else is damaged.

Stupid mistake on my part - just hope others can learn from my mistake and
not do the same thing themselves.

Nigel
745E

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

On the splice overlap..back it up with a piece of the 2" channel and be sure
the edging "bends" are in the replacement piece and spliced/riveted there as
well to return full strength.

Like I said..send the factory an email for confirmation this is acceptable.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 12:43 PM
Subject: RE: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Thanks Wayne...already started on the beer's :-)

I'll take a look again in daylight tomorrow...like you say, maybe not as

big

a job as I thought.

168 lbs and a rivet gun - halfway down the tail cone when it happened !

Thanks for your advice (both the plane and the beer).

Nig

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 05 November 2005 17:22
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Well lad...you're stomach quit rolling yet???? Can't even send my brother
over to down some Guinness with you..... as he's back home in Orangeville
for the winter.

Really, really, sad sight to see Nig.....and it gives you some

appreciation

of how much load that little (missing) piece of .020 takes when it makes
that D shape.

Not being rude...but how much do you weigh? I know others than have snuck
down there before...but maybe they had it supported under the cone forward
of your mess.

Don't know if you need to get as drastic as extracting the entire side
panels. Give Robin/Darryl a ding for confirmation....but I would think if
you go to the bulkhead forward of the buckle and overlap beyond it say 3
inches.....to get triple/quad properly pitched rows of rivets into it you
would be fine. Leave enough old skin when you trim the damaged area off
behind the bulkhead for a row or two of rivets, one on the bulhead and
another couple in front.

Make sure you run to town quick...gotta be close to closing time for the
beer store to close over there!

Take care,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Hi All

Today I borrowed a nicopress tool to do the rudder and elevator cable

ends

at the rear, and after a bit of thought I managed to get both the rudder
ones done correctly so was happy to climb inside and rivet down all the
nylon cable guides along the inner FUS that were currently still clecoed
in
place.

To assist in gaining access to the cables and rear guides I'd removed

the

top skin just in front of the fin that again had been clecoed in place
till
all the cables were done.

Unfortunately I'd not bothered to put supports under the FUS rib lines

at

the tail after removing this top cover, and the aircraft was just

sitting

on
its wheels (SG and tail).

The result when I was halfway down the inside of the tailcone speak for
themselves - don't try this yourselves :-)

dcsol files area/elite/e-fuselage/tail fail.jpg

Looking on the bright side, I reckon it is not as bad as it initially
looks.
The stab and rudder are undamaged. The fin is probably OK if I can

unrivet

it carefully. The upper doubler and elevator pulley assembly can

hopefully

be reused when removed from the solid bulkhead, and the stab support
bulkheads should be OK.

Severe damage to dignity :-)

I will definitely be shopping on Monday for 2 more side skins, a new

solid

bulkhead, 2 more tail cone side supports, a new lower tailcone skin. and

4

bulkhead quarters to replace the last FUS bulkhead, and a few rivets.

I'll possibly add to that list as I dismantle it tomorrow and see if
anything else is damaged.

Stupid mistake on my part - just hope others can learn from my mistake

and

not do the same thing themselves.

Nigel
745E

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Ouch, I feel for you, Nig, you're taking it pretty well,
actually. But it might not be that bad, as far as parts to
replace, once you've got it all apart. Good luck.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
N.Smith
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:43 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Thanks Wayne...already started on the beer's :-)

I'll take a look again in daylight tomorrow...like you
say, maybe not as big
a job as I thought.

168 lbs and a rivet gun - halfway down the tail cone
when it happened !

Thanks for your advice (both the plane and the beer).

Nig

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 05 November 2005 17:22
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Well lad...you're stomach quit rolling yet???? Can't
even send my brother
over to down some Guinness with you..... as he's back
home in Orangeville
for the winter.

Really, really, sad sight to see Nig.....and it gives
you some appreciation
of how much load that little (missing) piece of .020
takes when it makes
that D shape.

Not being rude...but how much do you weigh? I know
others than have snuck
down there before...but maybe they had it supported
under the cone forward
of your mess.

Don't know if you need to get as drastic as extracting
the entire side
panels. Give Robin/Darryl a ding for
confirmation....but I would think if
you go to the bulkhead forward of the buckle and
overlap beyond it say 3
inches.....to get triple/quad properly pitched rows of
rivets into it you
would be fine. Leave enough old skin when you trim the
damaged area off
behind the bulkhead for a row or two of rivets, one on
the bulhead and
another couple in front.

Make sure you run to town quick...gotta be close to
closing time for the
beer store to close over there!

Take care,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Hi All

Today I borrowed a nicopress tool to do the rudder
and elevator cable ends
at the rear, and after a bit of thought I managed to
get both the rudder
ones done correctly so was happy to climb inside and
rivet down all the
nylon cable guides along the inner FUS that were
currently still clecoed
in
place.

To assist in gaining access to the cables and rear
guides I'd removed the
top skin just in front of the fin that again had
been clecoed in place
till
all the cables were done.

Unfortunately I'd not bothered to put supports under
the FUS rib lines at
the tail after removing this top cover, and the
aircraft was just sitting
on
its wheels (SG and tail).

The result when I was halfway down the inside of the
tailcone speak for
themselves - don't try this yourselves :-)

dcsol files area/elite/e-fuselage/tail fail.jpg

Looking on the bright side, I reckon it is not as
bad as it initially
looks.
The stab and rudder are undamaged. The fin is
probably OK if I can unrivet
it carefully. The upper doubler and elevator pulley
assembly can hopefully
be reused when removed from the solid bulkhead, and
the stab support
bulkheads should be OK.

Severe damage to dignity :-)

I will definitely be shopping on Monday for 2 more
side skins, a new solid
bulkhead, 2 more tail cone side supports, a new
lower tailcone skin. and 4
bulkhead quarters to replace the last FUS bulkhead,
and a few rivets.
I'll possibly add to that list as I dismantle it
tomorrow and see if
anything else is damaged.

Stupid mistake on my part - just hope others can
learn from my mistake and
not do the same thing themselves.

Nigel
745E

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Ouch! Sorry to hear that.

It's happened before, a Moose builder here in Fairbanks did the same
thing... luckily for him I was just about to make the trip to MAM to pickup
my kit... so they just put new side skins, and other assorted parts, in my
crate for him. When he rebuilt it he ran witches hats down both sides of
the fuselage to strengthen everything up... Oh, and he never climbed into
the tail cone again without the corner wraps in place!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Hi All

Today I borrowed a nicopress tool to do the rudder and elevator cable ends
at the rear, and after a bit of thought I managed to get both the rudder
ones done correctly so was happy to climb inside and rivet down all the
nylon cable guides along the inner FUS that were currently still clecoed
in
place.

To assist in gaining access to the cables and rear guides I'd removed the
top skin just in front of the fin that again had been clecoed in place
till
all the cables were done.

Unfortunately I'd not bothered to put supports under the FUS rib lines at
the tail after removing this top cover, and the aircraft was just sitting
on
its wheels (SG and tail).

The result when I was halfway down the inside of the tailcone speak for
themselves - don't try this yourselves :-)

dcsol files area/elite/e-fuselage/tail fail.jpg

Looking on the bright side, I reckon it is not as bad as it initially
looks.
The stab and rudder are undamaged. The fin is probably OK if I can unrivet
it carefully. The upper doubler and elevator pulley assembly can hopefully
be reused when removed from the solid bulkhead, and the stab support
bulkheads should be OK.

Severe damage to dignity :-)

I will definitely be shopping on Monday for 2 more side skins, a new solid
bulkhead, 2 more tail cone side supports, a new lower tailcone skin. and 4
bulkhead quarters to replace the last FUS bulkhead, and a few rivets.

I'll possibly add to that list as I dismantle it tomorrow and see if
anything else is damaged.

Stupid mistake on my part - just hope others can learn from my mistake and
not do the same thing themselves.

Nigel
745E

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Ohhhhhhhh,
Just looked at you posted picture Nigel..........and ohhhh I feel for you. I
know I will be much more careful with my future moves around my Elite
construction.
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Hi All

Today I borrowed a nicopress tool to do the rudder and elevator cable ends
at the rear, and after a bit of thought I managed to get both the rudder
ones done correctly so was happy to climb inside and rivet down all the
nylon cable guides along the inner FUS that were currently still clecoed
in
place.

To assist in gaining access to the cables and rear guides I'd removed the
top skin just in front of the fin that again had been clecoed in place
till
all the cables were done.

Unfortunately I'd not bothered to put supports under the FUS rib lines at
the tail after removing this top cover, and the aircraft was just sitting
on
its wheels (SG and tail).

The result when I was halfway down the inside of the tailcone speak for
themselves - don't try this yourselves :-)

dcsol files area/elite/e-fuselage/tail fail.jpg

Looking on the bright side, I reckon it is not as bad as it initially
looks.
The stab and rudder are undamaged. The fin is probably OK if I can unrivet
it carefully. The upper doubler and elevator pulley assembly can hopefully
be reused when removed from the solid bulkhead, and the stab support
bulkheads should be OK.

Severe damage to dignity :-)

I will definitely be shopping on Monday for 2 more side skins, a new solid
bulkhead, 2 more tail cone side supports, a new lower tailcone skin. and 4
bulkhead quarters to replace the last FUS bulkhead, and a few rivets.

I'll possibly add to that list as I dismantle it tomorrow and see if
anything else is damaged.

Stupid mistake on my part - just hope others can learn from my mistake and
not do the same thing themselves.

Nigel
745E

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Nigel:

Yep, these side skins'd be difficult to manufacture at home. Major setback,
I'm afraid. Makes you feel sikk just looking at the pics.

Al

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Actually rebel skin sections for between two bulkheads are not difficult
to make with a brake (break?)(you know the thingy you bend metal with).
As long as the section you need is shorter than the brake.
Ken

Alan Hepburn wrote:

Nigel:

Yep, these side skins'd be difficult to manufacture at home. Major setback,
I'm afraid. Makes you feel sikk just looking at the pics.

Al

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N.Smith · Post by **N.Smith** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Thanks Ken (and all for your sympathies)

I'm going to end up with new parts from MAM to satisfy our authorities so
making new bits myself is not going to be an option - even if I knew where
to start :-)

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: 06 November 2005 03:59
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite tail cone - Oh Bu**er !!!

Actually rebel skin sections for between two bulkheads are not difficult
to make with a brake (break?)(you know the thingy you bend metal with).
As long as the section you need is shorter than the brake.
Ken

Alan Hepburn wrote:

Nigel:

Yep, these side skins'd be difficult to manufacture at home. Major

setback,

I'm afraid. Makes you feel sikk just looking at the pics.

Al

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Dale Kilbey · Post by **Dale Kilbey** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Hi Nigel
I didn't do that one, but I had to be quick with a bucket of sand when
hanging the engine.
Dale

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