rear float brackets

Gilles St-Pierre · Post by **Gilles St-Pierre** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought forward 1
station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious floats
Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover is
done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question will be
left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at the
edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there was a
good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole. Thanks
for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

jean

if wing is open doublers can go inside, looks better from outside this
way,
cover plate covers a lot of rivets
if wing closed doublers might have to go on outside, might
i have document from Murphy that shows how to do circular doublers with
closed wing
will get document scan and post if you want

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Jean Poirier
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:26 PM
To: rebel builder
Subject: wing access cover

Hello!

In the files, I have saw pictures of wing access cover with the doubler
inside of the wing. That picture have put trouble in my life!
Nowhere
in
the manual they say to put it inside and with the way hole ares dones,
I
have always imagine the doubler was suppose to be outside! Is it just
a
modification (nice one) that someone have done or it should be done like
that?

Jean
Rebel 747R

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Bob Andrews · Post by **Bob Andrews** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

gilles ... thanks on the e612 site. Regarding the Clamar 2200A's ... I have
to admit that I know zippidy do da point dump about them. As to what the
aft vertical strut would look like with Clamar's attached to the MAM
fitting, it depends on the distance between their aft spreader bar and the
step. The step defines where the floats are mounted fore and aft w/r/t the
wing cord/fuselage, and since that's where the bottom of the aft vertical
strut attaches to the float, that will define the angle to the MAM fitting.
When the green/white Elite was flying with MFC 2200A's, and the aft struts
were connected to MAM's aft fittings, they sloped aft almost parallel with
the front vertical struts. When they were moved to the door post, they were
near vertical. According to Keith, and I agree, the aft strut should be as
vertical as possible when the floats are level ... and moving them forward
one station (to the aft door post) does the trick. Now that's not to say
that connecting them to the MAM fitting is bad or wrong anything like that
... the Green/White Elite flew with them that way ... as well as with them
attached one station fwd (at the base of the aft door post) later on.

Since I'm not sure if I can attach pictures to the e-list emails (Mike?) ...
here's a link to the grn/wht Elite on MFC 2200A's with the aft struts
attached to the MAM fittings www.aacnet.com/elite/gwelite.jpg ... and
another picture that I tweaked on my computer to move them up one station
www.aacnet.com/elite/gwelite2.jpg ... which is where mine will be attached.

Even though I'm overly biased toward MFC, I am sorry I couldn't be more help
with the Clamar's.

Bob e612

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Gilles St-Pierre
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:20 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought forward 1
station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious floats
Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover is
done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question will be
left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at the
edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there was a
good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole. Thanks
for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

jean

if wing is open doublers can go inside, looks better from outside this
way,
cover plate covers a lot of rivets
if wing closed doublers might have to go on outside, might
i have document from Murphy that shows how to do circular doublers with
closed wing
will get document scan and post if you want

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Jean Poirier
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:26 PM
To: rebel builder
Subject: wing access cover

Hello!

In the files, I have saw pictures of wing access cover with the doubler
inside of the wing. That picture have put trouble in my life!
Nowhere
in
the manual they say to put it inside and with the way hole ares dones,
I
have always imagine the doubler was suppose to be outside! Is it just
a
modification (nice one) that someone have done or it should be done like
that?

Jean
Rebel 747R

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

I'll be in CLAMAR's factory on Saturday the 19th Gilles. If you want some
measurements just ask (I can take all I want without Clair getting nervous!)
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Andrews" <robert@montanasky.us>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: rear float brackets

gilles ... thanks on the e612 site. Regarding the Clamar 2200A's ... I

have

to admit that I know zippidy do da point dump about them. As to what the
aft vertical strut would look like with Clamar's attached to the MAM
fitting, it depends on the distance between their aft spreader bar and the
step. The step defines where the floats are mounted fore and aft w/r/t

the

wing cord/fuselage, and since that's where the bottom of the aft vertical
strut attaches to the float, that will define the angle to the MAM

fitting.

When the green/white Elite was flying with MFC 2200A's, and the aft struts
were connected to MAM's aft fittings, they sloped aft almost parallel with
the front vertical struts. When they were moved to the door post, they

were

near vertical. According to Keith, and I agree, the aft strut should be

as

vertical as possible when the floats are level ... and moving them forward
one station (to the aft door post) does the trick. Now that's not to say
that connecting them to the MAM fitting is bad or wrong anything like that
... the Green/White Elite flew with them that way ... as well as with them
attached one station fwd (at the base of the aft door post) later on.

Since I'm not sure if I can attach pictures to the e-list emails (Mike?)

...

here's a link to the grn/wht Elite on MFC 2200A's with the aft struts
attached to the MAM fittings www.aacnet.com/elite/gwelite.jpg ... and
another picture that I tweaked on my computer to move them up one station
www.aacnet.com/elite/gwelite2.jpg ... which is where mine will be

attached.

Even though I'm overly biased toward MFC, I am sorry I couldn't be more

help

with the Clamar's.

Bob e612

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Gilles St-Pierre
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:20 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought forward

1

station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious

floats

Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover

is

done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question will

be

left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at

the

edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there was

a

good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole. Thanks
for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

jean

if wing is open doublers can go inside, looks better from outside this
way,
cover plate covers a lot of rivets
if wing closed doublers might have to go on outside, might
i have document from Murphy that shows how to do circular doublers

with

closed wing
will get document scan and post if you want

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Jean Poirier
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:26 PM
To: rebel builder
Subject: wing access cover

Hello!

In the files, I have saw pictures of wing access cover with the

doubler

inside of the wing. That picture have put trouble in my life!
Nowhere
in
the manual they say to put it inside and with the way hole ares dones,
I
have always imagine the doubler was suppose to be outside! Is it

just

a
modification (nice one) that someone have done or it should be done

like

that?

Jean
Rebel 747R

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confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient
of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate,
copy or take any action with respect to it.

If you have received this message in error please notify
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Gilles St-Pierre · Post by **Gilles St-Pierre** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Bob
i think you have provided the right infos. At least i know what to look for
thanks again
gilles e717

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Gilles:

I think I have a picture of a Rebel on Clamar floats. The rear strut is
raked well forward, just like on the Montana 2200s, but nothing was done
about it, which I don't think is very good. If your fuselage is not
finished, then it would be a much better job to have the rear attach point
at the rear of the door sill as Bob is doing (on the Elite at least). If
you have finished the fuselage with the standard MAM attach points, I have
an alternate approach to relieve the fore-aft stress from the attach point,
which we can discuss.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought forward

1

station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious

floats

Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover

is

done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question will

be

left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at

the

edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there was

a

good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole. Thanks
for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

jean

if wing is open doublers can go inside, looks better from outside this
way,
cover plate covers a lot of rivets
if wing closed doublers might have to go on outside, might
i have document from Murphy that shows how to do circular doublers

with

closed wing
will get document scan and post if you want

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Jean Poirier
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:26 PM
To: rebel builder
Subject: wing access cover

Hello!

In the files, I have saw pictures of wing access cover with the

doubler

inside of the wing. That picture have put trouble in my life!
Nowhere
in
the manual they say to put it inside and with the way hole ares dones,
I
have always imagine the doubler was suppose to be outside! Is it

just

a
modification (nice one) that someone have done or it should be done

like

that?

Jean
Rebel 747R

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of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate,
copy or take any action with respect to it.

If you have received this message in error please notify
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Gilles St-Pierre · Post by **Gilles St-Pierre** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Wayne
thanks for the offer.Certainly appreciated
thanks
gilles e717

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: rear float brackets
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 19:06:37 -0500

I'll be in CLAMAR's factory on Saturday the 19th Gilles. If you want some
measurements just ask (I can take all I want without Clair getting
nervous!)
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Andrews" <robert@montanasky.us>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: rear float brackets

gilles ... thanks on the e612 site. Regarding the Clamar 2200A's ... I
have
to admit that I know zippidy do da point dump about them. As to what
the
aft vertical strut would look like with Clamar's attached to the MAM
fitting, it depends on the distance between their aft spreader bar and
the
step. The step defines where the floats are mounted fore and aft w/r/t
the
wing cord/fuselage, and since that's where the bottom of the aft
vertical
strut attaches to the float, that will define the angle to the MAM
fitting.
When the green/white Elite was flying with MFC 2200A's, and the aft
struts
were connected to MAM's aft fittings, they sloped aft almost parallel
with
the front vertical struts. When they were moved to the door post, they
were
near vertical. According to Keith, and I agree, the aft strut should be
as
vertical as possible when the floats are level ... and moving them
forward
one station (to the aft door post) does the trick. Now that's not to
say
that connecting them to the MAM fitting is bad or wrong anything like
that
... the Green/White Elite flew with them that way ... as well as with
them
attached one station fwd (at the base of the aft door post) later on.

Since I'm not sure if I can attach pictures to the e-list emails (Mike?)
...
here's a link to the grn/wht Elite on MFC 2200A's with the aft struts
attached to the MAM fittings www.aacnet.com/elite/gwelite.jpg ... and
another picture that I tweaked on my computer to move them up one
station
www.aacnet.com/elite/gwelite2.jpg ... which is where mine will be
attached.
Even though I'm overly biased toward MFC, I am sorry I couldn't be more
help
with the Clamar's.

Bob e612

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Gilles St-Pierre
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:20 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought
forward
1
station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious
floats
Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover
is
done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question
will
be
left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at
the
edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there
was
a
good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole.
Thanks
for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

this
with
doubler
Nowhere
dones,
I
just
a
like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
recipient
disseminate,

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Gilles St-Pierre · Post by **Gilles St-Pierre** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Al
the corner wrap has nt been instaled yet. so is quite easy to stick that in
between and we have a small machine shop to faconnate that part as
descdibed, but would still appreciate your comments on the other way to do
it
thank a lot
gilles e717

From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: rear float brackets
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 21:20:14 -0500

Gilles:

I think I have a picture of a Rebel on Clamar floats. The rear strut is
raked well forward, just like on the Montana 2200s, but nothing was done
about it, which I don't think is very good. If your fuselage is not
finished, then it would be a much better job to have the rear attach point
at the rear of the door sill as Bob is doing (on the Elite at least). If
you have finished the fuselage with the standard MAM attach points, I have
an alternate approach to relieve the fore-aft stress from the attach point,
which we can discuss.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought
forward
1
station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious
floats
Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover
is
done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question
will
be
left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at
the
edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there
was
a
good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole.
Thanks
for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

this
with
doubler
Nowhere
dones,
I
just
a
like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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disseminate,

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Probably BILMAR floats Al, not CLAMAR's. I know of at least one Rebel down
your way with a set of Bilmars on it that doesn't fly right. CLAMAR's are
similar but significantly lighter, but IMHO still too heavy for the Rebel or
Elite or I'd be installing them myself.... considering I work hand in hand
with Clair Sceli already. Pretty sure the deck pickup points are pretty
similar on both mfg's floats though so the mounting strut picture would show
the "tale" without me needing to get measurements for Gilles.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Gilles:

I think I have a picture of a Rebel on Clamar floats. The rear strut is
raked well forward, just like on the Montana 2200s, but nothing was done
about it, which I don't think is very good. If your fuselage is not
finished, then it would be a much better job to have the rear attach point
at the rear of the door sill as Bob is doing (on the Elite at least). If
you have finished the fuselage with the standard MAM attach points, I

have

an alternate approach to relieve the fore-aft stress from the attach

point,

which we can discuss.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought

forward

1
station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious
floats
Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover
is
done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question

will

be
left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at
the
edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there

was

a
good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole.

Thanks

for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

this

with
doubler
Nowhere

dones,

I
just
a
like

----------------------------------------------------------------------

recipient

disseminate,

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Bob Andrews · Post by **Bob Andrews** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Gilles,

At the shop, there's a side view picture (at the Oshkosh seaplane base) of
the green/white Elite with the aft struts mounted fwd one station ...
provided I remember to do it, will scan it and post in the Elite mods
section tomorrow.

Bob e612

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Gilles St-Pierre
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:30 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Al
the corner wrap has nt been instaled yet. so is quite easy to stick that in
between and we have a small machine shop to faconnate that part as
descdibed, but would still appreciate your comments on the other way to do
it
thank a lot
gilles e717

From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: rear float brackets
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 21:20:14 -0500

Gilles:

I think I have a picture of a Rebel on Clamar floats. The rear strut is
raked well forward, just like on the Montana 2200s, but nothing was done
about it, which I don't think is very good. If your fuselage is not
finished, then it would be a much better job to have the rear attach point
at the rear of the door sill as Bob is doing (on the Elite at least). If
you have finished the fuselage with the standard MAM attach points, I have
an alternate approach to relieve the fore-aft stress from the attach point,
which we can discuss.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought
forward
1
station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious
floats
Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

From: Jean Poirier <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing access cover
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:56:24 -0500

Hello Mike

Wing is close and the doubler is already rivet from the outside. Cover
is
done with "rivnut" system to hold them. Look is not too bad, but not
"clean" as inside doubler. Too late for the right wing. Question
will
be
left one cleaner or symitric to the right one..... How fit the skin at
the
edge of the doubler in the spar area? Coupled of months ago, there
was
a
good aticle too in the Kitplane magasine on how make access hole.
Thanks
for all

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: wing access cover

this
with
doubler
Nowhere
dones,
I
just
a
like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
recipient
disseminate,

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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username "rebel" password "builder"
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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Wayne:

It was Eric Draper's Rebel. I've posted the pic on Rebel/Float
Installations. The rear spreader is about the same location as on the
Montana 2200s.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Probably BILMAR floats Al, not CLAMAR's. I know of at least one Rebel down
your way with a set of Bilmars on it that doesn't fly right. CLAMAR's are
similar but significantly lighter, but IMHO still too heavy for the Rebel

or

Elite or I'd be installing them myself.... considering I work hand in hand
with Clair Sceli already. Pretty sure the deck pickup points are pretty
similar on both mfg's floats though so the mounting strut picture would

show

the "tale" without me needing to get measurements for Gilles.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Gilles:

I think I have a picture of a Rebel on Clamar floats. The rear strut is
raked well forward, just like on the Montana 2200s, but nothing was done
about it, which I don't think is very good. If your fuselage is not
finished, then it would be a much better job to have the rear attach

point

at the rear of the door sill as Bob is doing (on the Elite at least).

If

you have finished the fuselage with the standard MAM attach points, I
have
an alternate approach to relieve the fore-aft stress from the attach
point,
which we can discuss.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: rear float brackets

Bob
I checked your site and noticed the rear float bracket was brought
forward
1
station
was wondering if it should be done when using Clamar 2200 amphibious
floats
Beautiful pictures,i did pick some hints......!
thanks
gilles e717

Cover

is
will
be

at

the
was
a
Thanks
this
with

Of

doubler
dones,
just

done

like
----------------------------------------------------------------------
recipient
disseminate,

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Hi Al !

From the photo, that looks like Ron Barber's old Rebel.
The step appears to be over a foot or more too far forward -
that would account for the angle of the rear support ....
and also the poor performance !! ;-) :-)

Guess they had <some> reason for the positioning.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 08 March 2005 12:05 am, Alan Hepburn wrote:

Wayne:

It was Eric Draper's Rebel. I've posted the pic on Rebel/Float
Installations. The rear spreader is about the same location as on the
Montana 2200s.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Probably BILMAR floats Al, not CLAMAR's. I know of at least one Rebel down
your way with a set of Bilmars on it that doesn't fly right. CLAMAR's are
similar but significantly lighter, but IMHO still too heavy for the Rebel
or
Elite or I'd be installing them myself.... considering I work hand in hand
with Clair Sceli already. Pretty sure the deck pickup points are pretty
similar on both mfg's floats though so the mounting strut picture would
show
the "tale" without me needing to get measurements for Gilles.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Gilles:

I think I have a picture of a Rebel on Clamar floats. The rear strut is
raked well forward, just like on the Montana 2200s, but nothing was done
about it, which I don't think is very good. If your fuselage is not
finished, then it would be a much better job to have the rear attach
point
at the rear of the door sill as Bob is doing (on the Elite at least).
If
you have finished the fuselage with the standard MAM attach points, I
have
an alternate approach to relieve the fore-aft stress from the attach
point,
which we can discuss.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: rear float brackets

forward
1 floats
Cover
is
will
be
at
the
was
a
Thanks
this
with
Of
doubler
dones,
just
done
like ----------------------------------------------------------------------
recipient
disseminate,

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Gilles St-Pierre · Post by **Gilles St-Pierre** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

thanks to all those generous souls who gave me infos on the brackets
will fabricate them tomorrow
thanks again
gilles
e717

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Wasn't Eric's I was thinking of....but his are Bilmars as well. He called me
more than once a week for quite some time using our money (NAV Canada on the
call display!). There was someone else in the Ottawa area that called me
wanting information on where the step should be etc for his Bilmar
Amphibs...as his wouldn't hold the nose wheels up on landing/take off
(wouldn't even rotate on take off and flew off flat). I offered my advise
and he disagreed with me....wouldn't listen to my reasoning in regards to
where the main tire postion vs C of G vs weight of the forward float
section should be. Told him if he knew the answer already then why did he
waste my time to ask and he hung up.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Wayne:

It was Eric Draper's Rebel. I've posted the pic on Rebel/Float
Installations. The rear spreader is about the same location as on the
Montana 2200s.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Probably BILMAR floats Al, not CLAMAR's. I know of at least one Rebel

down

your way with a set of Bilmars on it that doesn't fly right. CLAMAR's

are

similar but significantly lighter, but IMHO still too heavy for the

Rebel

or
Elite or I'd be installing them myself.... considering I work hand in

hand

with Clair Sceli already. Pretty sure the deck pickup points are pretty
similar on both mfg's floats though so the mounting strut picture would
show
the "tale" without me needing to get measurements for Gilles.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Gilles:

I think I have a picture of a Rebel on Clamar floats. The rear strut

is

raked well forward, just like on the Montana 2200s, but nothing was

done

about it, which I don't think is very good. If your fuselage is not
finished, then it would be a much better job to have the rear attach
point
at the rear of the door sill as Bob is doing (on the Elite at least).
If
you have finished the fuselage with the standard MAM attach points, I
have
an alternate approach to relieve the fore-aft stress from the attach
point,
which we can discuss.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles St-Pierre" <ranchlaseigneurie@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: rear float brackets

forward
1 floats
Cover
is

not

will
be

skin

at
the

there

was
a
Thanks

outside

this

doublers

with

Behalf

Of
doubler
dones,

it

just
done
like
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
recipient
disseminate,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

Yes Bob! Ron's old airplane. I agree..step is too far forward by about 9
inches or so comparing pictures of side to side on what I know works.
Problem may be weight (probably the + side of 380lbs for the Bilmars - which
leaves one 200 lb pilot and 4 gallons of fuel to be legal and actually
wouldn't pass TC's useful load calculation) to work out an acceptible C of
G..but I'd think further back would improve the C of G if anything. The rear
strut would still be slanted back though so moving the rear fus attach
forward as Bob (Keith) are doing makes a lot of sense. Both struts leaning
the same way just begs for collapse in a hard landing. Glad Howard's rear
strut was straight TFSure.

Wayne
...................
Mark C-FPSR Serial No 077R
Common Name Murphy Model REBEL

File Location Toronto Basis for Eligibility for Registration Amateur
Built - CAR Standard 549
Type of Registration Private
Category Aeroplane Weight (Kgs) 748
Manufacturer RON C. BARBER
Year of Manufacture 1995
Country of Manufacture CANADA

Owner Registration
Owner Registered Since 2001-08-02 Last Certificate of Registration
Issued 2001-08-02

Engine Piston Number of Engines 1
Owner Information
Name ( 1 of 1 ) 629995 Ontario Inc. Mail Recipient Yes
Address P.O. Box 98
City Braeside Province Ontario
Postal Code K0A 1G0 Region Ontario

..................

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Hi Al !

From the photo, that looks like Ron Barber's old Rebel.
The step appears to be over a foot or more too far forward -
that would account for the angle of the rear support ....
and also the poor performance !! ;-) :-)

Guess they had <some> reason for the positioning.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 08 March 2005 12:05 am, Alan Hepburn wrote:
Wayne:

It was Eric Draper's Rebel. I've posted the pic on Rebel/Float
Installations. The rear spreader is about the same location as on the
Montana 2200s.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Probably BILMAR floats Al, not CLAMAR's. I know of at least one Rebel

down

your way with a set of Bilmars on it that doesn't fly right. CLAMAR's

are

similar but significantly lighter, but IMHO still too heavy for the

Rebel

or
Elite or I'd be installing them myself.... considering I work hand in

hand

with Clair Sceli already. Pretty sure the deck pickup points are

pretty

similar on both mfg's floats though so the mounting strut picture

would

show
the "tale" without me needing to get measurements for Gilles.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

strut is

done

point

least).

If

I

have point, forward

amphibious

Cover

not

Question

will

skin

at

there

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Bob Andrews · Post by **Bob Andrews** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

... it looks like that particular float installation has 9 to 10 degrees of
throat angle ... which also could produce less then optimal performance ...
would think 3-5 should do it leaving the rest for rotation once on-the-step
speed gets up there. What throat angle are you setting your floats at on
the Rebels?

Bob e612

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:35 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Yes Bob! Ron's old airplane. I agree..step is too far forward by about 9
inches or so comparing pictures of side to side on what I know works.
Problem may be weight (probably the + side of 380lbs for the Bilmars - which
leaves one 200 lb pilot and 4 gallons of fuel to be legal and actually
wouldn't pass TC's useful load calculation) to work out an acceptible C of
G..but I'd think further back would improve the C of G if anything. The rear
strut would still be slanted back though so moving the rear fus attach
forward as Bob (Keith) are doing makes a lot of sense. Both struts leaning
the same way just begs for collapse in a hard landing. Glad Howard's rear
strut was straight TFSure.

Wayne
...................
Mark C-FPSR Serial No 077R
Common Name Murphy Model REBEL

File Location Toronto Basis for Eligibility for Registration Amateur
Built - CAR Standard 549
Type of Registration Private
Category Aeroplane Weight (Kgs) 748
Manufacturer RON C. BARBER
Year of Manufacture 1995
Country of Manufacture CANADA

Owner Registration
Owner Registered Since 2001-08-02 Last Certificate of Registration
Issued 2001-08-02

Engine Piston Number of Engines 1
Owner Information
Name ( 1 of 1 ) 629995 Ontario Inc. Mail Recipient Yes
Address P.O. Box 98
City Braeside Province Ontario
Postal Code K0A 1G0 Region Ontario

..................

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Hi Al !

From the photo, that looks like Ron Barber's old Rebel.
The step appears to be over a foot or more too far forward -
that would account for the angle of the rear support ....
and also the poor performance !! ;-) :-)

Guess they had <some> reason for the positioning.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 08 March 2005 12:05 am, Alan Hepburn wrote:
Wayne:

It was Eric Draper's Rebel. I've posted the pic on Rebel/Float
Installations. The rear spreader is about the same location as on the
Montana 2200s.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

Probably BILMAR floats Al, not CLAMAR's. I know of at least one Rebel

down

your way with a set of Bilmars on it that doesn't fly right. CLAMAR's

are

similar but significantly lighter, but IMHO still too heavy for the

Rebel

or
Elite or I'd be installing them myself.... considering I work hand in

hand

with Clair Sceli already. Pretty sure the deck pickup points are

pretty

similar on both mfg's floats though so the mounting strut picture

would

show
the "tale" without me needing to get measurements for Gilles.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: rear float brackets

strut is

done

point

least).

If

I

have point, forward

amphibious

Cover

not

Question

will

skin

at

there

was Thanks

outside

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Of

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