Moose - M14 carburetor jets

[George Coy]

We have the carb jet kits.
This issue of plugging the accelerator pump jet has been around for a
while. Les Crowder started doing this in the early 1990's. The reason they
did that was that in hot weather, pushing the throttle ahead resulted in
stumbling of the engine due to too rich a mixture.
Anyone who wants a carb without the accelerator pump can use the carb off
the M14-V26 helicopter engine. They are identical except the accelerator
pump. I would be happy to exchange carburetors as the new M14P carburetors
are now in the $2,000 plus range when we can find them. The factory that
made them is now making furniture and no one there even remembers about the
carburetors.
Part of the problem is that many pilots today have little or no experience
with radial engines. They tend treat them like the flat engines and expect
them to respond the same way. That is not true. Due to the fixed geared
supercharger and the geared propeller, they must be treated differently.
It is my habit to carry some power at all times until the landing is made.
If it is necessary to completely close the throttle during a descent, then I
will "clear the throttle" by adding power every 30 seconds and then closing
it again. This will also help overcooling the engine as well. Always
remember to close the cowl flaps before this kind of rapid descent. I try to
plan my approach so that this is not necessary.
Lets remember that we are dealing with a geared engine as well. It happens
that this M14 design is extremely rugged and will permit you to use it for
dynamic breaking. That is letting the prop be turned by airflow and using
the engine as a giant air compressor. This is a VERY bad habit and will
quickly kill most radial engines. It will quickly destroy most of the big
Pratt & Whitney's and the Wrights. If you look at toe allowed power settings
on an R1830 or R2000 then you will see that the manifold pressure in inches
can never go below the RPM. The manifold pressure is always greater than the
RPM. This is called over boosting and not recommended in most flat
supercharged engines.

George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:55 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose - M14 carburator jets


Scott,

It will be interesting to compare notes after you try the 9mm jet.
Question: In the link to Richard Goode's note, he mentions a wide
variety of available jet sizes. How did you decide on the 9mm one?
Won't density altitude play a large role in determining how efficient
the new jet works?

I certainly agree that plugging the jet isn't pretty, but, I still
wonder about how different density altitudes will play in the overall
effectiveness of engine response at that critical "I need power now"
time...

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Aldrich
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Moose - M14 carburator jets


Below are two emails from a discussion on another list referencing the
accelerator jets on the M14 carburetor.



I ended up ordering the .9mm jet and will try that. I know Ted liked
the results of doing the mod that completely plugged the jet, figured I
would try this first and go from there. I wrote emails to the local M14
importers to see if they had these jets and got no reply. Rob Kent from
www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk <http://www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk/> was very
helpful and called the same day I placed the internet order to discuss
shipping ( I suspect his phone call from England to the US cost more
than the shipping).

Anyway, good guys and they have a lot of the smaller parts for the M14
in stock.

Scott
Moose 174






From:

"Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>



Subject:

Accelerator Jet
<http://www.matronics.com/searching/getm ... 013183?KEY
S=richard_goode?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=17?SERIAL=16514612918?SHOWBUTTONS
=NO>



Date:

Sep 27, 2004




Accelerator Jet


I have seen with interest correspondence on this.


In my humble opinion blocking the jet is a rather crude solution.


The AK14 carburetor is very sophisticated, and unfortunately, few people
understand either its workings, or how to set it up.


The accelerator jet has the specific purpose of momentarily increasing
the richness of the mixture to avoid hesitation on opening the throttle.
Clearly too much fuel at this stage can also cause a hesitation through
a "rich cut."


The manufacturers get round this by having six different jets, which are
interchangeable (ranging from 0.9mm to 1.4mm).


I can see that an engine with a very large jet and therefore noticeable
rich hesitation will improve by having the jet blanked off completely,
but generally it has got to be a far better solution to install the
correct jet!


A well set up M14P will generally run like a sewing machine - sadly very
few are!


Richard Goode


Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom

Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com






Match:

#1


Message:

#16280



From:

"Rob Kent" <spares@russianaeros.com>



Subject:

carb jets
<http://www.matronics.com/searching/getm ... 035268?KEY
S=ca
rb_jets?LISTNAME=Yak?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=16501012580?SHOWBUTTONS=NO>



Date:

Sep 29, 2004




The carburetor uses a number of different jets. In his email Richard
mentions the acceleration pump fuel jet. These jets are the same as the
suction jets. The only difference between the two is the diameter of the
hole in the jet.

The suction jets range in interchangeable sizes from 1.3mm to 2.0mm
inclusive. Increasing the jet diameter will lean out the mixture.
Decreasing the jet diameter enriches the mixture and helps keep the
engine cool at high power settings. A change in jet diameter of 0.1mm
changes the specific fuel consumption at take-off rating for 10 to 15
grams per horse power per hour. It is normal practice, after changing
this jet to adjust the engine in cruise rating II via the metering
needle adjustment screw.

The acceleration pump fuel jets range in interchangeable sizes from
0.9mm to 1.4mm inclusive. When increasing the acceleration jet diameter,
the acceleration pump delivery increases and vice versa.

These jets are available from stock as a set ranging from 0.9mm to 1.9mm
inclusive (one of each size per set) or as individual sizes (2.0mm not
available). More information can be obtained by contacting me by phone,
fax or email or, alternatively by visiting our website.

Regards

Rob Kent
Stores Manager
WLAC - Russian Engineering
www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk

Tel:- +44 1628 829165
Fax:- +44 1628 828961








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[Scott Aldrich]

Thanks for the info George, I sent both you and Carl emails about the jets
but got no reply so figured nobody over here had them. I liked the ability
to browse through the parts that they did have online. Any chance you guys
will go to an online store type setup? A lot of hassle/work keeping it up
to date though.

What is the status of you Moose?

Thanks again,
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of George
Coy
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:10 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose - M14 carburetor jets

We have the carb jet kits.
This issue of plugging the accelerator pump jet has been around for a
while. Les Crowder started doing this in the early 1990's. The reason they
did that was that in hot weather, pushing the throttle ahead resulted in
stumbling of the engine due to too rich a mixture.
Anyone who wants a carb without the accelerator pump can use the carb off
the M14-V26 helicopter engine. They are identical except the accelerator
pump. I would be happy to exchange carburetors as the new M14P carburetors
are now in the $2,000 plus range when we can find them. The factory that
made them is now making furniture and no one there even remembers about the
carburetors.
Part of the problem is that many pilots today have little or no experience
with radial engines. They tend treat them like the flat engines and expect
them to respond the same way. That is not true. Due to the fixed geared
supercharger and the geared propeller, they must be treated differently.
It is my habit to carry some power at all times until the landing is made.
If it is necessary to completely close the throttle during a descent, then I
will "clear the throttle" by adding power every 30 seconds and then closing
it again. This will also help overcooling the engine as well. Always
remember to close the cowl flaps before this kind of rapid descent. I try to
plan my approach so that this is not necessary.
Lets remember that we are dealing with a geared engine as well. It happens
that this M14 design is extremely rugged and will permit you to use it for
dynamic breaking. That is letting the prop be turned by airflow and using
the engine as a giant air compressor. This is a VERY bad habit and will
quickly kill most radial engines. It will quickly destroy most of the big
Pratt & Whitney's and the Wrights. If you look at toe allowed power settings
on an R1830 or R2000 then you will see that the manifold pressure in inches
can never go below the RPM. The manifold pressure is always greater than the
RPM. This is called over boosting and not recommended in most flat
supercharged engines.

George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)





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[George Coy]

I sold my Moose project. I am putting together a PZL 101 that will go on
Amphibs. It has a similar gross weight and empty weight. It is a little
slower and has better STOL characteristics. It will also be about 50% of the
cost.
We considered going on line with our parts inventory, but just never seem
to get a "round tuit". Besides I just picked up some carb kits with the jets
last week while in Romania.

George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Scott Aldrich
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 9:24 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose - M14 carburetor jets


Thanks for the info George, I sent both you and Carl emails about the jets
but got no reply so figured nobody over here had them. I liked the ability
to browse through the parts that they did have online. Any chance you guys
will go to an online store type setup? A lot of hassle/work keeping it up
to date though.

What is the status of you Moose?

Thanks again,
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of George
Coy
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:10 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Moose - M14 carburetor jets

We have the carb jet kits.
This issue of plugging the accelerator pump jet has been around for a
while. Les Crowder started doing this in the early 1990's. The reason they
did that was that in hot weather, pushing the throttle ahead resulted in
stumbling of the engine due to too rich a mixture.
Anyone who wants a carb without the accelerator pump can use the carb off
the M14-V26 helicopter engine. They are identical except the accelerator
pump. I would be happy to exchange carburetors as the new M14P carburetors
are now in the $2,000 plus range when we can find them. The factory that
made them is now making furniture and no one there even remembers about the
carburetors.
Part of the problem is that many pilots today have little or no experience
with radial engines. They tend treat them like the flat engines and expect
them to respond the same way. That is not true. Due to the fixed geared
supercharger and the geared propeller, they must be treated differently.
It is my habit to carry some power at all times until the landing is made.
If it is necessary to completely close the throttle during a descent, then I
will "clear the throttle" by adding power every 30 seconds and then closing
it again. This will also help overcooling the engine as well. Always
remember to close the cowl flaps before this kind of rapid descent. I try to
plan my approach so that this is not necessary.
Lets remember that we are dealing with a geared engine as well. It happens
that this M14 design is extremely rugged and will permit you to use it for
dynamic breaking. That is letting the prop be turned by airflow and using
the engine as a giant air compressor. This is a VERY bad habit and will
quickly kill most radial engines. It will quickly destroy most of the big
Pratt & Whitney's and the Wrights. If you look at toe allowed power settings
on an R1830 or R2000 then you will see that the manifold pressure in inches
can never go below the RPM. The manifold pressure is always greater than the
RPM. This is called over boosting and not recommended in most flat
supercharged engines.

George Coy
President
Gesoco Industries Inc.
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
TEL 802-868-5633
FAX 802-868-4465
Web Site www.gesoco.com
e-mail George@gesoco.com
Franklin County Airport (KFSO)





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