Engines and props?

Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too much
horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a prince
prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Hi Drew !

You aren't the first to consider this combination - and you just might
see it flying this fall !!! Pierre is 'way ahead of you -
Pop by Purple Hill Air to see the progress ... and the setup of the
amphibs !

Should be a DAZZLING performer ! :-) :-) ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 25 August 2004 09:53 pm, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too much
horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a prince
prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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bransom · Post by **bransom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

I'd like to add to your question(s) Drew. Primarily, I'm wondering how much
power improvement could be done to an 0320 and still be able to burn mogas.
A couple local buddies here like to burn mogas just to avoid the mess lead
makes, not to mention the lower cost. Can you still do that with high
compression pistons?
-Ben

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too much
horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a prince
prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Hi Ben !

You could run High-Test Mogas with higher compression pistons -
BUT - you ALWAYS need SOME lead with these engines (or an
equivalent lubricant). If you don't run at least every third tank full of
100 LL, your valve seats will look like they've been spot-welded in
a matter of time !!!

This doesn't show up immediately on older engines, as the pores
of the metal are full of lead, and it leaches out over time - but you
WILL have a problem sooner or later without SOME additional lead.

The 160 HP Lycomings are not as popular because of the fuel
issue, AND the higher compression introduces some vibration issues, from
the stronger power pulses .... Bumping up the compression on older
(narrow-deck) blocks might cause cracking problems, too ....

In any case, as Drew suggests, the new XP-360 engines cost LESS
to buy than the cost to overhaul an old 320 !! And you get a Superior
engine, in many ways ...

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 25 August 2004 11:44 pm, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

I'd like to add to your question(s) Drew. Primarily, I'm wondering how
much power improvement could be done to an 0320 and still be able to burn
mogas. A couple local buddies here like to burn mogas just to avoid the
mess lead makes, not to mention the lower cost. Can you still do that with
high compression pistons?
-Ben

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too
much horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop?
As near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a
prince prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an
extra 20hp while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought?
Also along the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high
compression pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching
can get an 0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew
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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Thanks Bob I'll do that. I can't remember how smooth is the grass at purple
hill. I've been into a couple grass strips where taxiing on the amphibs was
a real bone jarring experience.

At 11:43 PM 8/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Drew !

You aren't the first to consider this combination - and you just might
see it flying this fall !!! Pierre is 'way ahead of you -
Pop by Purple Hill Air to see the progress ... and the setup of the
amphibs !

Should be a DAZZLING performer ! :-) :-) ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 25 August 2004 09:53 pm, Drew Dalgleish wrote:
Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too much
horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a prince
prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Drew

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Jesse Jenks · Post by **Jesse Jenks** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Bob,
For those of us who can't drop by can you describe his setup?
Thanks.
Jesse

From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Engines and props?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:10:53 -0400

Thanks Bob I'll do that. I can't remember how smooth is the grass at purple
hill. I've been into a couple grass strips where taxiing on the amphibs was
a real bone jarring experience.

At 11:43 PM 8/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:
Hi Drew !

You aren't the first to consider this combination - and you just might
see it flying this fall !!! Pierre is 'way ahead of you -
Pop by Purple Hill Air to see the progress ... and the setup of the
amphibs !

Should be a DAZZLING performer ! :-) :-) ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 25 August 2004 09:53 pm, Drew Dalgleish wrote:
Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for
a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too
much
horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a
prince
prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra
20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also
along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high
compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Drew

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Hi Drew !

Shouldn't be too bad - Angus bases his Rebel on amphibs at
Purple Hill .... and I get down there often.

.......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 26 August 2004 09:10 am, Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Thanks Bob I'll do that. I can't remember how smooth is the grass at purple
hill. I've been into a couple grass strips where taxiing on the amphibs was
a real bone jarring experience.

At 11:43 PM 8/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:
Hi Drew !

You aren't the first to consider this combination - and you just might
see it flying this fall !!! Pierre is 'way ahead of you -
Pop by Purple Hill Air to see the progress ... and the setup of the
amphibs !

Should be a DAZZLING performer ! :-) :-) ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Wednesday 25 August 2004 09:53 pm, Drew Dalgleish wrote:
Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too
much horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince
prop? As near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320
and a prince prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could
have an extra 20hp while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any
thought? Also along the same lines are the power mods available for an
0-320, high compression pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and
flow matching can get an 0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a
rebel handle?
Drew

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Drew

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Angus McKenzie · Post by **Angus McKenzie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Hi Drew
Give me a call and I will answer some of these questions.........Angus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: Engines and props?

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too

much

horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a

prince

prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Hi Jesse !

I don't have all the details - maybe Pierre will jump in
with all the info ....

What he has chosen to do is install one of the XP-360 type
versions of the O-360 180 hp engine, with several performance
mods. He's using fuel injection, and a lightweight carbon-fiber
sump, as well as lightweight starter & alternator, and dual
lightweight electronic ignition instead of mags. The manufacturer's
numbers show that this setup should be LIGHTER than a stock
O-320, with something in the 195 + horsepower range !! This
engine is mated to a Prince prop (wood core, carbon fiber coating)
weighing about 9 lb. The engine installation has been done by
John Goris, at Purple Hill Air Ltd., and he is completing a
4 door custom cowl, just like mine, for it. (He now has patterns !) :-)
It is being balanced by an Oddysey (sp.?) battery in the rear fuselage, as
well as an electric pump for the float gear, from Clamar Floats Inc..

Even though his firewall is moved back 3", and he has installed
Wayne's firewall mods, this arrangement is not recommended by the
factory, so he is breaking new ground. One major worry would be
exceeding redline in level flight !!! The whole objective, though, is
to build the ultimate float Rebel, so the drag of the amphibs
should avoid that problem, and it should be THE best performing
amphib Rebel in the world !!! I'm looking forward to seeing
a takeoff contest between this Rebel and Jack Weibe's highly
customized Elite ! :-) :-) (My money's on Pierre at this
point, as he should be over 200 lb. lighter !)

With luck, we should see it fly later this fall ! (I'm scheduled
to do the test flying .... :-) )

.......bobp

PS
While all this sounds exciting, I hope nobody changes plans
until we get some more feedback on how this works out. There have
been at least 2 other Rebels that had O-360's installed, with several
problems noted - perhaps not all the mods we use nowdays were
included .... FWIW, I'm not a big fan of "aircraft engine" fuel injection
- seems like the technology is somewhere about "1956 Chevy" level -
so maybe a simple carb would be a better choice ... we'll see !

In any case, that's the great thing about Murphy aircraft - you can
build it right up to the firewall, THEN decide on which engine to use ! :-)

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 26 August 2004 10:28 am, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Bob,
For those of us who can't drop by can you describe his setup?
Thanks.
Jesse

From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Engines and props?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:10:53 -0400

Thanks Bob I'll do that. I can't remember how smooth is the grass at
purple hill. I've been into a couple grass strips where taxiing on the
amphibs was a real bone jarring experience.

At 11:43 PM 8/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:
Hi Drew !

You aren't the first to consider this combination - and you just might
see it flying this fall !!! Pierre is 'way ahead of you -
Pop by Purple Hill Air to see the progress ... and the setup of the
amphibs !

Should be a DAZZLING performer ! :-) :-) ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Wednesday 25 August 2004 09:53 pm, Drew Dalgleish wrote:
a

much

prince

20hp

along

compression

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Drew

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Jerry Purdom · Post by **Jerry Purdom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: Engines and props?

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too

much

horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a

prince

prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Jerry Purdom · Post by **Jerry Purdom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Hi Drew I have been flying an 0-360 in my Rebel for 5 years on Edo 2000 and
it works fine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: Engines and props?

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too

much

horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a

prince

prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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WALTER KLATT · Post by **WALTER KLATT** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Jerry, can you give us some performance figures, like rate of climb, take-off times, etc. Also, what was your empty weight on wheels? And what prop are you using?

If I was builing a Rebel again, I would seriously look at the 0360. While I think my 150 hp 0320 does well on amphibs, it is certainly no water rocket. There are definitely some places I would like to go into, that I don't dare today.

Bruce G. and I met a guy up at Nimpo that put a turbo charger in his 0360 Bushmaster, which also sounded very interesting. I was certainly impressed when he told me some of the places he had got into. I wonder how much weight that would add to an installation.

Anybody want to buy a good used 0320? (just kidding)

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Purdom <jerrygoneflying@shaw.ca>
Date: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:59 am
Subject: Re: Engines and props?

Hi Drew I have been flying an 0-360 in my Rebel for 5 years on Edo
2000 and
it works fine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: Engines and props?

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a
bigger> engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably
won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't
have too
much
horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince
prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320
and a
prince
prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an
extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought?
Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high
compression> pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow
matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Reed Britt Civ OO-ALC/MAD · Post by **Reed Britt Civ OO-ALC/MAD** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

That article on the Corvette LS1 engine in the Vans RV7 had the 400 Hp
engine 10 lbs over the 180 Hp IO360 - The bummer is that he can't climb too
fast or there is no visibility over the cowl and he can't use all the
throttle till he is at 15,000 feet - Maybe you Canadians/Alaskans could use
the extra Hp too keep your beer cold till you are at altitude - in stead of
installing air conditioning -

Britt

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of WALTER
KLATT
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Engines and props?

Jerry, can you give us some performance figures, like rate of climb,
take-off times, etc. Also, what was your empty weight on wheels? And what
prop are you using?

If I was builing a Rebel again, I would seriously look at the 0360. While I
think my 150 hp 0320 does well on amphibs, it is certainly no water rocket.
There are definitely some places I would like to go into, that I don't dare
today.

Bruce G. and I met a guy up at Nimpo that put a turbo charger in his 0360
Bushmaster, which also sounded very interesting. I was certainly impressed
when he told me some of the places he had got into. I wonder how much weight
that would add to an installation.

Anybody want to buy a good used 0320? (just kidding)

Walter

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Scott Aldrich · Post by **Scott Aldrich** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Britt,
Was there a link to that article or was it only in the magazine?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Reed
Britt Civ OO-ALC/MADE
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:51 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Engines and props?

That article on the Corvette LS1 engine in the Vans RV7 had the 400 Hp
engine 10 lbs over the 180 Hp IO360 - The bummer is that he can't climb too
fast or there is no visibility over the cowl and he can't use all the
throttle till he is at 15,000 feet - Maybe you Canadians/Alaskans could use
the extra Hp too keep your beer cold till you are at altitude - in stead of
installing air conditioning -

Britt

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of WALTER
KLATT
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:53 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Engines and props?

Jerry, can you give us some performance figures, like rate of climb,
take-off times, etc. Also, what was your empty weight on wheels? And what
prop are you using?

If I was builing a Rebel again, I would seriously look at the 0360. While I
think my 150 hp 0320 does well on amphibs, it is certainly no water rocket.
There are definitely some places I would like to go into, that I don't dare
today.

Bruce G. and I met a guy up at Nimpo that put a turbo charger in his 0360
Bushmaster, which also sounded very interesting. I was certainly impressed
when he told me some of the places he had got into. I wonder how much weight
that would add to an installation.

Anybody want to buy a good used 0320? (just kidding)

Walter

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:26 am

Thanks Jerry I thought I remembered someone had already done this. Did you
move your firewall or strenghthen any parts?

At 09:59 AM 8/26/2004 -0700, you wrote:

Hi Drew I have been flying an 0-360 in my Rebel for 5 years on Edo 2000 and
it works fine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: Engines and props?

Every time I take off at our cottage I think how much I'd like a bigger
engine. I've 4 years of tuition to pay so it probably won't happen for a
while. But if you believe the floatpilots saying of you can't have too
much
horsepower has anyone considered an 0-360 engine with a prince prop? As
near a I can find out an 0-360 weighs 10lb. more than an 0-320 and a
prince
prop weighs about 25lb less than a sensenich so I could have an extra 20hp
while weighing 15lb less. Anyone else given this any thought? Also along
the same lines are the power mods available for an 0-320, high compression
pistons, cams, exhaust, porting polishing and flow matching can get an
0-320 well over 200hp. How much power can a rebel handle?
Drew

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Drew

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