More Pitot Questions

[Jeffrey Steenson]

Dear Dave,

On mounting this, there is an interesting kit from Colorado
(http://www.gretzaero.com/products/pitot ... elect.html)
that is pretty expensive but will give some good ideas for fabricating a
mount. According to my notes, the mounting screws are MS35207-226 with
MS37338-41 lock washers -- that's 1/4" 6-40 screws.

I really like your idea for plumbing a static source. The front side panels
slope enough that I imagine I will get some RAM effect. I thought it was
very clever the way the MAM Super Rebel had disconnected the static lines
from those ports!

Jeffrey
Elite 714

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:59 PM
Subject: More Pitot Questions

Hi Guys

I have a couple of pitot questions, the unit in question is a heated one

from a

Cessna, probably a 172 & looks like the one on Waynes' plane in the

archives,

about 6.5" long.

After extracting the broken mounting screws from it, the thread size seems

like

it is #6-40, does that sound right? It is clearly not 6-32 and not as

small as

#4.

For the mounting I am thinking of attaching the mount tube for it to the
inspection cover in front of the strut mount, this will put the front of

the

tube about 8 - 9" behind the leading edge and probably about 6" below the

wing,

does that sound OK to not be unduly influenced by the airflow over the

wing?

How about the (pitch) angle relative to the wing, any thoughts there? I

am

guessing that the probe tube should be about parallel to the flat bottom

surface

of the wing but possibly pitched down a bit, has anyone any experience

which

would say how much of an angle is best?

Last, this unit is pitot only, but on a pitot-static, where is (are) the

static

ports on the tube? Is it worth modding this part to make it the static

source

as well? I should say that apart from the broken screws the reason we got

such

a good deal on the pitot is because the heater is missing so there is

plenty of

room to do mods for a static port and we have no plans at this point to

need it

heated for IFR use.

Thanks

Dave R.


--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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[Alan Hepburn]

I gor one off a C150, and have mounted it in a similar position to the
original aircraft, which puts the tip pretty well level with the LE. This
seems to line it up pretty well parallel with the underside of the wing. I
have the original screws, which as near as I can measure are 40 t.p.i. They
are only 0.25" total length.



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[David Ricker]

Hi Guys

I have a couple of pitot questions, the unit in question is a heated one from a
Cessna, probably a 172 & looks like the one on Waynes' plane in the archives,
about 6.5" long.

After extracting the broken mounting screws from it, the thread size seems like
it is #6-40, does that sound right? It is clearly not 6-32 and not as small as
#4.

For the mounting I am thinking of attaching the mount tube for it to the
inspection cover in front of the strut mount, this will put the front of the
tube about 8 - 9" behind the leading edge and probably about 6" below the wing,
does that sound OK to not be unduly influenced by the airflow over the wing?

How about the (pitch) angle relative to the wing, any thoughts there? I am
guessing that the probe tube should be about parallel to the flat bottom surface
of the wing but possibly pitched down a bit, has anyone any experience which
would say how much of an angle is best?

Last, this unit is pitot only, but on a pitot-static, where is (are) the static
ports on the tube? Is it worth modding this part to make it the static source
as well? I should say that apart from the broken screws the reason we got such
a good deal on the pitot is because the heater is missing so there is plenty of
room to do mods for a static port and we have no plans at this point to need it
heated for IFR use.

Thanks

Dave R.


--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada





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[rognal]

Dave,

I built my pitot tube mount into the forward inspection cover on the left
wing of my Rebel. Per the Aircraft Spruce Catalog I used a piece of 2.023
x .857 x .049 4130 Streamline Tubing to fabricate the down tube mount. It
fits the(AN5812-12)pitot tube exactly. I cut a close fitting hole matching
the shape of the streamline tube into the cover, backed it with a doubler,
then fabricated a piece which rivets to the inspection cover and which the
top of the streamline tube rivets to. I haven't yet cut the length of the
streamline tube to a final length, nor is the whole thing riveted/screwed
together yet. I was also wondering what size screws to use to fix the pitot
to the tubing, so this thread was very timely for me.

I have posted several photographs to the Rebel Systems archives if interested.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

David pretty sure I have machine screws in both fine and ultrafine. Will
look tomorrow for some pitot screws for you in 6-40 thread.

BTW, my pitot is mounted in streamline tube (purchased from ACS - a foot of
it) and inside the wing I sliced it open and bolted one side to the pressed
indented shape of one of the ribs center "web" areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: More Pitot Questions

Hello Jeffery

Thanks, I have seen the Gretz mount and have checked out the (apparent)
multitudes of RV sites showing the installation, it looks like a great

part for

the RVs and we can learn a bit from them for our application. Did you

know the

streamline tube can be had from Aircraft Spruce? I think we will fab

someting

that fits into the access cover location like one of the SR builders

talked

about in a posting a while back. This approach gives the latitude to

refine it

later if it isn't perfect (enough) the first time.

Thanks to you & Al for confirmation of the screw size, would have been

nice if

they had used a more standard size but I suppose they had a reason.

Anybody

know whare I can put my hands on a few of these screws without buying a

min

qty.?

On the static ports, I have seen one of Tony Bingelis' articles

(http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilder ... ing%20a%20
Pitot-Static%20System.html#TopOfPage)

where he describes drilling 2 sets of 4, .040" holes around the diameter

of the

static portion of a dual tube home made pitot-static tube for the ports.

I was

thinking that I could do this on the outer tube of the pitot assembly and

plumb

it up the hole the heater wires normally live in. Worst case if I mess it

up I

could simply replace the simple piece of .75" (or so) dia. thin wall

aluminum

tube that makes up the pitot housing and be back to where I started.

Cheers,

Dave R.
Elite583.cjb.net

Jeffrey Steenson wrote:

Dear Dave,

On mounting this, there is an interesting kit from Colorado
(http://www.gretzaero.com/products/pitot ... elect.html)
that is pretty expensive but will give some good ideas for fabricating a
mount. According to my notes, the mounting screws are MS35207-226 with
MS37338-41 lock washers -- that's 1/4" 6-40 screws.

I really like your idea for plumbing a static source. The front side

panels

slope enough that I imagine I will get some RAM effect. I thought it

was

very clever the way the MAM Super Rebel had disconnected the static

lines

from those ports!

Jeffrey
Elite 714

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:59 PM
Subject: More Pitot Questions

Hi Guys

I have a couple of pitot questions, the unit in question is a heated

one

from a

Cessna, probably a 172 & looks like the one on Waynes' plane in the

archives,

about 6.5" long.

After extracting the broken mounting screws from it, the thread size

seems

like

it is #6-40, does that sound right? It is clearly not 6-32 and not as

small as

#4.

For the mounting I am thinking of attaching the mount tube for it to

the

inspection cover in front of the strut mount, this will put the front

of

the

tube about 8 - 9" behind the leading edge and probably about 6" below

the

wing,

does that sound OK to not be unduly influenced by the airflow over the

wing?

How about the (pitch) angle relative to the wing, any thoughts there?

I

am

guessing that the probe tube should be about parallel to the flat

bottom

surface

of the wing but possibly pitched down a bit, has anyone any experience

which

would say how much of an angle is best?

Last, this unit is pitot only, but on a pitot-static, where is (are)

the

static

ports on the tube? Is it worth modding this part to make it the

static

source

as well? I should say that apart from the broken screws the reason we

got

such

a good deal on the pitot is because the heater is missing so there is

plenty of

room to do mods for a static port and we have no plans at this point

to

need it

heated for IFR use.

Thanks

Dave R.


--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Nope, looked like a really good place to bolt the streamline tube and it
fits nicely into the dished shape of the rib web. Mine's mounted about 2 or
3 degrees nose down from the bottom of the wing and in cruise seems to be
about straight into the airsteam. Haven't flow one yet that is really that
acurate anyhow, so what evey works for you go for it.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: More Pitot Questions

Thanks Wayne, I thought you might know where to look! I'll look forward

to

hearing what you find.

I saw the pic of your installation in the archives, any reason other than
convenience to mount it to the rib? Any thoughts on the eventual position

of

the opening relative to the wing?

Cheers,

Dave R.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

David pretty sure I have machine screws in both fine and ultrafine. Will
look tomorrow for some pitot screws for you in 6-40 thread.

BTW, my pitot is mounted in streamline tube (purchased from ACS - a foot

of

it) and inside the wing I sliced it open and bolted one side to the

pressed

indented shape of one of the ribs center "web" areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: More Pitot Questions

Hello Jeffery

Thanks, I have seen the Gretz mount and have checked out the

(apparent)

multitudes of RV sites showing the installation, it looks like a great

part for

the RVs and we can learn a bit from them for our application. Did you

know the

streamline tube can be had from Aircraft Spruce? I think we will fab

someting

that fits into the access cover location like one of the SR builders

talked

about in a posting a while back. This approach gives the latitude to

refine it

later if it isn't perfect (enough) the first time.

Thanks to you & Al for confirmation of the screw size, would have been

nice if

they had used a more standard size but I suppose they had a reason.

Anybody

know whare I can put my hands on a few of these screws without buying

a

min

qty.?

On the static ports, I have seen one of Tony Bingelis' articles

(http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilder ... ing%20a%20

Pitot-Static%20System.html#TopOfPage)

where he describes drilling 2 sets of 4, .040" holes around the

diameter

of the

static portion of a dual tube home made pitot-static tube for the

ports.

I was

thinking that I could do this on the outer tube of the pitot assembly

and

plumb

it up the hole the heater wires normally live in. Worst case if I

mess it

up I

could simply replace the simple piece of .75" (or so) dia. thin wall

aluminum

tube that makes up the pitot housing and be back to where I started.

Cheers,

Dave R.
Elite583.cjb.net

Jeffrey Steenson wrote:

fabricating a

with

side

panels

it

was

lines

heated

one

the

size

seems

not as

to

the

front

of

below

the

the

there?

I

bottom

experience

(are)

the

static

reason we

got

is

point

to

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--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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[David Ricker]

Hello Jeffery

Thanks, I have seen the Gretz mount and have checked out the (apparent)
multitudes of RV sites showing the installation, it looks like a great part for
the RVs and we can learn a bit from them for our application. Did you know the
streamline tube can be had from Aircraft Spruce? I think we will fab someting
that fits into the access cover location like one of the SR builders talked
about in a posting a while back. This approach gives the latitude to refine it
later if it isn't perfect (enough) the first time.

Thanks to you & Al for confirmation of the screw size, would have been nice if
they had used a more standard size but I suppose they had a reason. Anybody
know whare I can put my hands on a few of these screws without buying a min
qty.?

On the static ports, I have seen one of Tony Bingelis' articles
(http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilder ... #TopOfPage)
where he describes drilling 2 sets of 4, .040" holes around the diameter of the
static portion of a dual tube home made pitot-static tube for the ports. I was
thinking that I could do this on the outer tube of the pitot assembly and plumb
it up the hole the heater wires normally live in. Worst case if I mess it up I
could simply replace the simple piece of .75" (or so) dia. thin wall aluminum
tube that makes up the pitot housing and be back to where I started.

Cheers,

Dave R.
Elite583.cjb.net

Jeffrey Steenson wrote:

Dear Dave,

On mounting this, there is an interesting kit from Colorado
(http://www.gretzaero.com/products/pitot ... elect.html)
that is pretty expensive but will give some good ideas for fabricating a
mount. According to my notes, the mounting screws are MS35207-226 with
MS37338-41 lock washers -- that's 1/4" 6-40 screws.

I really like your idea for plumbing a static source. The front side panels
slope enough that I imagine I will get some RAM effect. I thought it was
very clever the way the MAM Super Rebel had disconnected the static lines
from those ports!

Jeffrey
Elite 714

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:59 PM
Subject: More Pitot Questions

Hi Guys

I have a couple of pitot questions, the unit in question is a heated one

from a

Cessna, probably a 172 & looks like the one on Waynes' plane in the

archives,

about 6.5" long.

After extracting the broken mounting screws from it, the thread size seems

like

it is #6-40, does that sound right? It is clearly not 6-32 and not as

small as

#4.

For the mounting I am thinking of attaching the mount tube for it to the
inspection cover in front of the strut mount, this will put the front of

the

tube about 8 - 9" behind the leading edge and probably about 6" below the

wing,

does that sound OK to not be unduly influenced by the airflow over the

wing?

How about the (pitch) angle relative to the wing, any thoughts there? I

am

guessing that the probe tube should be about parallel to the flat bottom

surface

of the wing but possibly pitched down a bit, has anyone any experience

which

would say how much of an angle is best?

Last, this unit is pitot only, but on a pitot-static, where is (are) the

static

ports on the tube? Is it worth modding this part to make it the static

source

as well? I should say that apart from the broken screws the reason we got

such

a good deal on the pitot is because the heater is missing so there is

plenty of

room to do mods for a static port and we have no plans at this point to

need it

heated for IFR use.

Thanks

Dave R.


--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada





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[David Ricker]

Thanks Wayne, I thought you might know where to look! I'll look forward to
hearing what you find.

I saw the pic of your installation in the archives, any reason other than
convenience to mount it to the rib? Any thoughts on the eventual position of
the opening relative to the wing?

Cheers,

Dave R.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

David pretty sure I have machine screws in both fine and ultrafine. Will
look tomorrow for some pitot screws for you in 6-40 thread.

BTW, my pitot is mounted in streamline tube (purchased from ACS - a foot of
it) and inside the wing I sliced it open and bolted one side to the pressed
indented shape of one of the ribs center "web" areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: More Pitot Questions

Hello Jeffery

Thanks, I have seen the Gretz mount and have checked out the (apparent)
multitudes of RV sites showing the installation, it looks like a great

part for

the RVs and we can learn a bit from them for our application. Did you

know the

streamline tube can be had from Aircraft Spruce? I think we will fab

someting

that fits into the access cover location like one of the SR builders

talked

about in a posting a while back. This approach gives the latitude to

refine it

later if it isn't perfect (enough) the first time.

Thanks to you & Al for confirmation of the screw size, would have been

nice if

they had used a more standard size but I suppose they had a reason.

Anybody

know whare I can put my hands on a few of these screws without buying a

min

qty.?

On the static ports, I have seen one of Tony Bingelis' articles

(http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilder ... ing%20a%20
Pitot-Static%20System.html#TopOfPage)

where he describes drilling 2 sets of 4, .040" holes around the diameter

of the

static portion of a dual tube home made pitot-static tube for the ports.

I was

thinking that I could do this on the outer tube of the pitot assembly and

plumb

it up the hole the heater wires normally live in. Worst case if I mess it

up I

could simply replace the simple piece of .75" (or so) dia. thin wall

aluminum

tube that makes up the pitot housing and be back to where I started.

Cheers,

Dave R.
Elite583.cjb.net

Jeffrey Steenson wrote:

Dear Dave,

On mounting this, there is an interesting kit from Colorado
(http://www.gretzaero.com/products/pitot ... elect.html)
that is pretty expensive but will give some good ideas for fabricating a
mount. According to my notes, the mounting screws are MS35207-226 with
MS37338-41 lock washers -- that's 1/4" 6-40 screws.

I really like your idea for plumbing a static source. The front side

panels

slope enough that I imagine I will get some RAM effect. I thought it

was

very clever the way the MAM Super Rebel had disconnected the static

lines

from those ports!

Jeffrey
Elite 714

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:59 PM
Subject: More Pitot Questions

one

from a archives,

seems

like small as

the

of

the

the

wing, wing?

I

am

bottom

surface which

the

static

static

source

got

such plenty of

to

need it

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--
David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada





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[David Ricker]

Yeah, I saw an article on the web where they tested different configurations on
a King Air and they said through +/- 10 degrees of pitch & yaw there didn't seem
to be a whole lot of difference so as a first cut we won't worry about being off
a few degrees. If we are off then we can always re-spin it if we do mount it on
the inspection cover or accessable from there.

Cheers,

Dave

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Nope, looked like a really good place to bolt the streamline tube and it
fits nicely into the dished shape of the rib web. Mine's mounted about 2 or
3 degrees nose down from the bottom of the wing and in cruise seems to be
about straight into the airsteam. Haven't flow one yet that is really that
acurate anyhow, so what evey works for you go for it.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: More Pitot Questions

Thanks Wayne, I thought you might know where to look! I'll look forward

to

hearing what you find.

I saw the pic of your installation in the archives, any reason other than
convenience to mount it to the rib? Any thoughts on the eventual position

of

the opening relative to the wing?

Cheers,

Dave R.

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

David pretty sure I have machine screws in both fine and ultrafine. Will
look tomorrow for some pitot screws for you in 6-40 thread.

BTW, my pitot is mounted in streamline tube (purchased from ACS - a foot

of

it) and inside the wing I sliced it open and bolted one side to the

pressed

indented shape of one of the ribs center "web" areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: More Pitot Questions

(apparent)

part for know the someting talked refine it nice if Anybody

a

min

(http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilder ... ing%20a%20

Pitot-Static%20System.html#TopOfPage)

diameter

of the

ports.

I was

and

plumb

mess it

up I aluminum

fabricating a

with

side

panels

it

was lines

heated

one

the

size

seems

not as

to

the

front

of

below

the

the

there?

I bottom

experience

(are)

the static

reason we

got

is

point

to

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[Alan Hepburn]

Further to my last, I used the entire C-150 installlation which I purchased
from an aircraft wrecker. You get the streamline tube, screws (slightly
rusy, and thanks for the suggestions on where to get new ones), doubler
(curved, fits the leading edge nicely, and already riveted to the streamline
tube) and Tinnerman nuts for mounting to wing.

Al



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[David Ricker]

Roger

Good photos, this is right along the lines of what I was thinking. It is good to
have this in the archive so those that follow can benefit from the experience of
those who have been there already.

It will be interesting to hear about the performance when you get it flying. A
tuft test would tell quickly if the angle is right too. Getting this sort of
thing documented will "improve the breed" as we get a bigger group reporting back
what works & what doesn't so we can save time & move on to the next refinement.
As an example if you look on the web for RV & pitot you will find that there is a
"standard" solution and an aftermarket mount supplier (Gretz) so it is as simple
as drop it in and no experimenting.

My $.02 anyhow!

Cheers,

Dave R.


rognal@dcsol.com wrote:

Dave,

I built my pitot tube mount into the forward inspection cover on the left
wing of my Rebel. Per the Aircraft Spruce Catalog I used a piece of 2.023
x .857 x .049 4130 Streamline Tubing to fabricate the down tube mount. It
fits the(AN5812-12)pitot tube exactly. I cut a close fitting hole matching
the shape of the streamline tube into the cover, backed it with a doubler,
then fabricated a piece which rivets to the inspection cover and which the
top of the streamline tube rivets to. I haven't yet cut the length of the
streamline tube to a final length, nor is the whole thing riveted/screwed
together yet. I was also wondering what size screws to use to fix the pitot
to the tubing, so this thread was very timely for me.

I have posted several photographs to the Rebel Systems archives if interested.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!


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