lycoming 0-235

bob.hyatt · Post by **bob.hyatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm

I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive. I am
looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with sensenich.
My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small field
(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at 2400rpm
does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-rated back
to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or changing
the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so I am
somewhat reluctant to change it.

Regards,

Bob

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Hi Bob What's wrong with the warp that you want to change it? Is uping
the horsepower of your engine just a matter of moving the redline on the
tach to 2700 or do you need new pistons? On my 0-290 I can run at 2750 for
up to 5min. then 2600. This gives me 130hp for takeoff and 125hp max. for
cruise. I'm really pleased with my warp drive prop and Have no plans to
change mine.
Drew

t 11:17 AM 4/27/2003 -0800, you wrote:

I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive. I am
looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with sensenich.
My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small field
(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at 2400rpm
does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-rated

back

to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or

changing

the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so I am
somewhat reluctant to change it.

Regards,

Bob

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Drew Dalgleish

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )

I assume you're dumping the Warp Drive because of the
blade cracking problems .... Going to high-compression pistons
will really aggravate this problem, so the W-D is out !!

72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo fine - you should still get
about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
(100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
right across the country ! You shouldn't have any problem getting
a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass, with clear approaches,
as long as you're not heavily loaded. The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
tires from Murphy really help on soft ground ...

I suggest just trying the prop - it can always be re-pitched
if needed. If the engine's running good, and you like to run
mogas, by all means, don't change it..... save the money for
FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)

I have flown a Rebel with the 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
metal prop, and it was great - solid 110 mph cruise, and good climb.
MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at 108 hp.....

I second Ralph's opinion - the Elite nosewheel would
not be good on rough or soft fields. (Curious why you ask ???)

.....bobp

-------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:

I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive. I am
looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with sensenich.
My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small field
(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at 2400rpm
does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-rated back
to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or changing
the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so I am
somewhat reluctant to change it.

Regards,

Bob

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Rick Harper · Post by **Rick Harper** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:58 pm

G'day from " Down Under "Bob !

We have a "sooped up" 0-235 in our Rebel ... making 130 HP ...

Think of propellers in the same vein as gears in a car .... Finer /
shallower pitch (less pitch) is like low range or first gear in a car
... LOTS of pull, but bugger all top speed.
A coarser pitch propeller is like 4th or 5th gear & won't accelerate the
car quickly, or pull up a hill well, but it IS better when you get the
car out on the open road .... so you can cruise faster.

Cars have multiple gears, a plane needs a variable pitch propeller to
get the same effect .... VERY costly , both in $$$ and in weight penalty
:-(

Basically, you pick one of the following :

1) Climb prop (shallow / low pitch) ...
plane accelerates quickly, climbs like a homesick angel, but
lousy top end speed
(good if you live & fly out of short strips, hilly country etc)

2) Cruise prop (coarse / high pitch) ...
plane accelerates slowly, climbs out poorly, but gets a great
top end speed for cruising
(great if you have a LONG strip & climb out rate is not an issue)

so .... the compromise is a propeller half way between the climb & the
cruise prop !

NOW .... this all gets complicated by the changing of the HP rating ....
:-(

(if we keep the diameter constant & just concentrate on the pitch ...)

MORE horse power ( & therefore u..s..u..a..l...l..y.. more torque)
lets you turn a coarser / higher pitch propeller ..... this gives you
more thrust .... accelerates the plane quicker, climbs faster & cruises
faster !

So, if you rerate your 0-235 back to 118 HP (which I assume here , that
it was before)...and this is done by installing the 8.5:1 compression
ratio pistons .... ( some of the lower HP 0-235's cannot be upgraded to
118 HP due to the smaller diameter through bolts in the crankcases) ...
you will be able to turn a propeller with more pitch on it !

But you'll need a new propeller ! .... and here we enter into a whole
new ball game of propeller design & manufacture ...... I'll explain IF
you're interested & have a day or so you want to spend on the phone :-(

(I'm currently 75% the way through making the new propeller for our "up
& coming" 0-320 that we are going to put in our Rebel)

Hope this helps

Rick & Wendy Harper

----- Original Message -----
From: bob.hyatt@dcsol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:17 AM
Subject: lycoming 0-235

I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive.
I am
looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
sensenich.
My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small
field
(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at
2400rpm
does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine
re-rated back
to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or
changing
the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so
I am
somewhat reluctant to change it.

Regards,

Bob

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bob.hyatt · Post by **bob.hyatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Dear Rick and Wendy,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply, much appreciated. Sorry for not
coming back sooner but, I for some reason your reply was not forwarded
through to me direct. I have taken on board your comments and accept that
the choice of pitch is dictated by where you wish the best performance to
be. It seems that the rebel wants to stay on the ground for an eternity with
the current setup. This maybe just my feeling though. I am operating out of
a fairly small strip and wanted that extra headroom of power. A couple of
suggestions have come forward about pushing the rpm up for takeoff ie 2700rpm
and then throttling back to normal operating rpm for the cruise??? Any
comment? I expect that along with the max continuous rpm there is also a max
rpm for 5 mins etc. Presumably I would pitch the prop to run at say 2500
static rpm and then throttle back to the 2100-2400 operating range once in
the cruise.
I have written to Textron to get their views on rerating the engine and have
given them the s/n as I cannot find anywhere stating what the original hp was.

With regards to the prop, the idea behind changing it was due in part to the
alterations required to keep my existing spinner with the new cowling. I know
have discovered that I can get another size spinner to fit! The second
reason was down to performance, it was felt that perhaps the lack of
performance from the 105hp was due in part to the warp drive not being as
efficient as it could be. While investigating this I discovered the problems
of cracking etc and was told by Murphy that they no longer recommend the warp
drive. All in all a pretty confusing mess.

If it does not prove to be too expensive I think I could use the extra power
but it does come with some drawbacks such as 100LL vs mogas and availability
in the future. In reality the cost difference of fuels probably is not that
great, especially over here in England.

I do appreciate the opp of reading more informed opinions than my own and
would appreciate any further comments that you may have.

Regards,

Bob

On 4/29/2003 11:24 PM, RJWH@OZEMAIL.COM.AU wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <rjwh@ozemail.com.au> Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:59:12 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:59:12 -0800
-> Received: from mta01.mail.au.uu.net ([203.2.192.81])
EHLO=mta01.mail.mel.aone.net.au
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 149840593; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:59:10 -0800
-> Received: from v8t0e4 ([63.34.197.103]) by mta01.mail.mel.aone.net.au
-> with SMTP
-> id <20030427225921.HGTJ15144.mta01.mail.mel.aone.net.au@v8t0e4>
-> for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:59:21 +1000
-> Message-ID: <003901c30d10$bb6b11e0$67c5223f@v8t0e4>
-> From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> References: <1051471022@dcsol.com>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:59:59 +1000
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----
=_NextPart_000_0036_01C30D64.8C662160"
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-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
-> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
->
-> G'day from " Down Under "Bob !
->
-> We have a "sooped up" 0-235 in our Rebel ... making 130 HP ...
->
-> Think of propellers in the same vein as gears in a car .... Finer /
-> shallower pitch (less pitch) is like low range or first gear in a car
-> ... LOTS of pull, but bugger all top speed.
-> A coarser pitch propeller is like 4th or 5th gear & won't accelerate the
-> car quickly, or pull up a hill well, but it IS better when you get the
-> car out on the open road .... so you can cruise faster.
->
-> Cars have multiple gears, a plane needs a variable pitch propeller to
-> get the same effect .... VERY costly , both in $$$ and in weight penalty
-> :-(
->
-> Basically, you pick one of the following :
->
-> 1) Climb prop (shallow / low pitch) ...
-> plane accelerates quickly, climbs like a homesick angel, but
-> lousy top end speed
-> (good if you live & fly out of short strips, hilly country etc)
->
-> 2) Cruise prop (coarse / high pitch) ...
-> plane accelerates slowly, climbs out poorly, but gets a great
-> top end speed for cruising
-> (great if you have a LONG strip & climb out rate is not an issue)
->
-> so .... the compromise is a propeller half way between the climb & the
-> cruise prop !
->
-> NOW .... this all gets complicated by the changing of the HP rating ....
-> :-(
->
-> (if we keep the diameter constant & just concentrate on the pitch ...)
->
-> MORE horse power ( & therefore u..s..u..a..l...l..y.. more torque)
-> lets you turn a coarser / higher pitch propeller ..... this gives you
-> more thrust .... accelerates the plane quicker, climbs faster & cruises
-> faster !
->
-> So, if you rerate your 0-235 back to 118 HP (which I assume here , that
-> it was before)...and this is done by installing the 8.5:1 compression
-> ratio pistons .... ( some of the lower HP 0-235's cannot be upgraded to
-> 118 HP due to the smaller diameter through bolts in the crankcases) ...
-> you will be able to turn a propeller with more pitch on it !
->
-> But you'll need a new propeller ! .... and here we enter into a whole
-> new ball game of propeller design & manufacture ...... I'll explain IF
-> you're interested & have a day or so you want to spend on the phone :-(
->
-> (I'm currently 75% the way through making the new propeller for our "up
-> & coming" 0-320 that we are going to put in our Rebel)
->
-> Hope this helps
->
-> Rick & Wendy Harper
->
->
->
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: bob.hyatt@dcsol.com
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:17 AM
-> Subject: lycoming 0-235
->
->
-> I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive.
-> I am
-> looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> sensenich.
-> My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small
-> field
-> (390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at
-> 2400rpm
-> does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine
-> re-rated back
-> to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or
-> changing
-> the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so
-> I am
-> somewhat reluctant to change it.
->
->
-> Regards,
->
-> Bob
->
->
->
-> *------------------------------------------------------------------------
-> -*
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-> http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
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->
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bob.hyatt · Post by **bob.hyatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Hello Drew,

Thanks for the reply, I have in fact replied to you but it seems that
something went wrong at this end as I do not see it posted.

It is not so much that there is anything wrong with the wd but it was
suggested that perhaps the lack of performance was due to the prop not being
as efficient as it could be and that with the hp limited to 105hp that this
hp was marginal and a more efficient prop would make a considerable
difference.

Someone else also suggested that I simply push the rpm up beyond the 2400 for
takeoff and then throttle back for cruise ie pitch the prop to achieve the
2700rpm on takeoff. Is this a realistic option? What about damage to the
engine? Sorry if this is somewhat naive but, not much experience in this
area.

The engine runs perfectly at the moment and the change of pistons was only to
up the hp.

Regards,

Bob

On 4/29/2003 11:47 PM, DREWJAN@CABLETV.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca> Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:13:02 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
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-> X-Sender: drewjan@mail.cabletv.on.ca
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 22:13:32 -0400
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> In-Reply-To: <1051471022@dcsol.com>
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
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-> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.53 (1.174.2.15-2003-03-30-exp)
->
-> Hi Bob What's wrong with the warp that you want to change it? Is uping
-> the horsepower of your engine just a matter of moving the redline on the
-> tach to 2700 or do you need new pistons? On my 0-290 I can run at 2750 for
-> up to 5min. then 2600. This gives me 130hp for takeoff and 125hp max. for
-> cruise. I'm really pleased with my warp drive prop and Have no plans to
-> change mine.
-> Drew
->
-> t 11:17 AM 4/27/2003 -0800, you wrote:
-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive. I
am
-> >looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
sensenich.
-> >My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small field
-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at
2400rpm
-> >does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-rated
-> back
-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or
-> changing
-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so I
am
-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> >
-> >
-> >Regards,
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> Drew Dalgleish
->
->

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bob.hyatt · Post by **bob.hyatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did reply earlier but seems it did not
get posted either.

The reason for the change of prop was two fold, it was felt that the lack of
performance may be due in part to the prop not being too efficient for the
job given the assumed marginal power available. The second reason had to do
with alterations required to fit to my new cowling, but this may have been
overcome now.

It really comes down to the expensive of changing the pistons for the higher
hp. Reading your account of flying the 118hp makes me want to do it even
more! I do like the idea of having a bit in reserve for when needed.

What I did not want to do was to buy a new sensenich prop at 48 pitch only to
find that I created problems elsewhere and should have done something
differently at this stage.

Regards,

Bob

On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

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-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Message-Id: <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
->
->
-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
->
-> I assume you're dumping the Warp Drive because of the
-> blade cracking problems .... Going to high-compression pistons
-> will really aggravate this problem, so the W-D is out !!
->
-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo fine - you should still get
-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> right across the country ! You shouldn't have any problem getting
-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass, with clear approaches,
-> as long as you're not heavily loaded. The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
-> tires from Murphy really help on soft ground ...
->
-> I suggest just trying the prop - it can always be re-pitched
-> if needed. If the engine's running good, and you like to run
-> mogas, by all means, don't change it..... save the money for
-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
->
-> I have flown a Rebel with the 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> metal prop, and it was great - solid 110 mph cruise, and good climb.
-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at 108 hp.....
->
-> I second Ralph's opinion - the Elite nosewheel would
-> not be good on rough or soft fields. (Curious why you ask ???)
->
-> .....bobp
->
-> -------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive. I
am
-> >looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
sensenich.
-> >My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small field
-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at
2400rpm
-> >does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-rated
back
-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or
changing
-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so I
am
-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> >
-> >
-> >Regards,
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> > Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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bob.hyatt · Post by **bob.hyatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Hi Bobp,

Thanks for the reply,

Sounds like the wd probably is on the short side, WD themselves said 'about'
68 or 70, I was working on the premise that 72" on a 2 blade may be similar
to a the thrust available from a 68" 3 blade, but truth is I do not know! I
suppose what is important is the area that the thrust is actually out and
beyond the cowling, and the farther out the faster the tip must be going.
The blades on the wd are not very deep across so this prob has an adverse
effect as well.

On takeoff I have never tried full flap but, have limited it 10 degrees, I
would have thought full flap would also increased the drag considerably and
defeat the object????

Thanks for you input, I will keep you posted

Bob

On 4/30/2003 11:26 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800
-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 114281171; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:00 -0800
-> Received: from 2cust75.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.75])
-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> id 19B3Ln-0006ew-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Message-Id: <E19B3Ln-0006ew-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
->
->
-> You might be right about your prop - most folks here have
-> used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The Rebel is pretty 'fat',
-> and that short prop might not be moving much air past it !
->
-> The original O-235 was 100/108 hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
-> and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I believe that was with
-> 6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have. The HP rating was at
-> 2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds like your W-D was also
-> pitched a bit too coarse ...
->
-> I do remember that the O-235 liked to be cruised fast,
-> and was happiest cruising all day at 2,450 rpm...... certainly
-> no danger of harm, as long as your temps are ok.
->
-> As for getting the Rebel off the ground, I assume you
-> are using full flap for takeoff ??? That's what the flap is
-> there for !!! You can back off to 2 notches after you are out
-> of ground effect - but using all of it should definitely get
-> you up faster.
->
-> If you still have the W-D, I would just tweak it finer
-> to give you at least 2,500 static rpm, and see if that helps...
-> If it does, then going to the Sensenich will likely be a
-> "Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)
->
-> Keep us posted ! Good luck !
->
-> ....bobp
->
-> ---------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
-> At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Hi Bob,
-> >
-> >Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did reply earlier but seems it did
not
-> >get posted either.
-> >
-> >The reason for the change of prop was two fold, it was felt that the lack
of
-> >performance may be due in part to the prop not being too efficient for
the
-> >job given the assumed marginal power available. The second reason had to
do
-> >with alterations required to fit to my new cowling, but this may have
been
-> >overcome now.
-> >
-> >It really comes down to the expensive of changing the pistons for the
higher
-> >hp. Reading your account of flying the 118hp makes me want to do it even
-> >more! I do like the idea of having a bit in reserve for when needed.
-> >
-> >What I did not want to do was to buy a new sensenich prop at 48 pitch
only to
-> >find that I created problems elsewhere and should have done something
-> >differently at this stage.
-> >
-> >Regards,
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> >
-> >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800
-> >-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> >-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> >-> Received: from 2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.32])
-> >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> >-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> >-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> >-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> >-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> >-> Message-Id: <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> >-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >->
-> >->
-> >-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
-> >->
-> >-> I assume you're dumping the Warp Drive because of the
-> >-> blade cracking problems .... Going to high-compression pistons
-> >-> will really aggravate this problem, so the W-D is out !!
-> >->
-> >-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo fine - you should still get
-> >-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
-> >-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> >-> right across the country ! You shouldn't have any problem getting
-> >-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass, with clear approaches,
-> >-> as long as you're not heavily loaded. The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
-> >-> tires from Murphy really help on soft ground ...
-> >->
-> >-> I suggest just trying the prop - it can always be re-pitched
-> >-> if needed. If the engine's running good, and you like to run
-> >-> mogas, by all means, don't change it..... save the money for
-> >-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
-> >->
-> >-> I have flown a Rebel with the 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> >-> metal prop, and it was great - solid 110 mph cruise, and good climb.
-> >-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at 108 hp.....
-> >->
-> >-> I second Ralph's opinion - the Elite nosewheel would
-> >-> not be good on rough or soft fields. (Curious why you ask ???)
-> >->
-> >-> .....bobp
-> >->
-> >-> -------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
-> >-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp
drive. I
-> >am
-> >-> >looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> >sensenich.
-> >-> >My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small
field
-> >-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at
-> >2400rpm
-> >-> >does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-
rated
-> >back
-> >-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or
-> >changing
-> >-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so
I
-> >am
-> >-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Regards,
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Bob
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >*---------------------------------------------------------------------
----
-> >*
-> >-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> >-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> >-> > Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> >-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >-> >*---------------------------------------------------------------------
----
-> >*
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >->
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> > Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

You might be right about your prop - most folks here have
used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The Rebel is pretty 'fat',
and that short prop might not be moving much air past it !

The original O-235 was 100/108 hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I believe that was with
6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have. The HP rating was at
2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds like your W-D was also
pitched a bit too coarse ...

I do remember that the O-235 liked to be cruised fast,
and was happiest cruising all day at 2,450 rpm...... certainly
no danger of harm, as long as your temps are ok.

As for getting the Rebel off the ground, I assume you
are using full flap for takeoff ??? That's what the flap is
there for !!! You can back off to 2 notches after you are out
of ground effect - but using all of it should definitely get
you up faster.

If you still have the W-D, I would just tweak it finer
to give you at least 2,500 static rpm, and see if that helps...
If it does, then going to the Sensenich will likely be a
"Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)

Keep us posted ! Good luck !

....bobp

---------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did reply earlier but seems it did not
get posted either.

The reason for the change of prop was two fold, it was felt that the lack of
performance may be due in part to the prop not being too efficient for the
job given the assumed marginal power available. The second reason had to do
with alterations required to fit to my new cowling, but this may have been
overcome now.

It really comes down to the expensive of changing the pistons for the higher
hp. Reading your account of flying the 118hp makes me want to do it even
more! I do like the idea of having a bit in reserve for when needed.

What I did not want to do was to buy a new sensenich prop at 48 pitch only to
find that I created problems elsewhere and should have done something
differently at this stage.

Regards,

Bob

On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800
-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> Received: from 2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.32])
-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Message-Id: <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
->
->
-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
->
-> I assume you're dumping the Warp Drive because of the
-> blade cracking problems .... Going to high-compression pistons
-> will really aggravate this problem, so the W-D is out !!
->
-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo fine - you should still get
-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> right across the country ! You shouldn't have any problem getting
-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass, with clear approaches,
-> as long as you're not heavily loaded. The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
-> tires from Murphy really help on soft ground ...
->
-> I suggest just trying the prop - it can always be re-pitched
-> if needed. If the engine's running good, and you like to run
-> mogas, by all means, don't change it..... save the money for
-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
->
-> I have flown a Rebel with the 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> metal prop, and it was great - solid 110 mph cruise, and good climb.
-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at 108 hp.....
->
-> I second Ralph's opinion - the Elite nosewheel would
-> not be good on rough or soft fields. (Curious why you ask ???)
->
-> .....bobp
->
-> -------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp drive. I
am
-> >looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
sensenich.
-> >My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small field
-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at
2400rpm
-> >does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-rated
back
-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or
changing
-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so I
am
-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> >
-> >
-> >Regards,
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> > Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

FWIW, I recently switched from a 3 blade 72" WD on my
150 hp 0320 amphib Rebel to a 74 X 54 Sensenich, and
much to my surprise found that the WD outperformed the
2 blade metal Sensenich in both climb and cruise. This
was also despite having the WD set at 2450 static,
while the Sensenich turns 2500 on static. The WD is
also 25 pounds lighter and in my case, I never had any
root collar cracking.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
bob.hyatt@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:34 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235

Hi Bobp,

Thanks for the reply,

Sounds like the wd probably is on the short
side, WD themselves said 'about'
68 or 70, I was working on the premise that
72" on a 2 blade may be similar
to a the thrust available from a 68" 3
blade, but truth is I do not know! I
suppose what is important is the area that
the thrust is actually out and
beyond the cowling, and the farther out the
faster the tip must be going.
The blades on the wd are not very deep
across so this prob has an adverse
effect as well.

On takeoff I have never tried full flap but,
have limited it 10 degrees, I
would have thought full flap would also
increased the drag considerably and
defeat the object????

Thanks for you input, I will keep you posted

Bob

On 4/30/2003 11:26 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote
to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Wed, 30 Apr 2003
17:59:02 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com;
Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800
-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net
([203.176.60.253])
EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 114281171; Wed, 30 Apr 2003
17:59:00 -0800
-> Received: from
2cust75.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.75])
-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> id 19B3Ln-0006ew-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr
2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Message-Id:
<E19B3Ln-0006ew-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
->
->
-> You might be right about your
prop - most folks here have
-> used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The
Rebel is pretty 'fat',
-> and that short prop might not be moving
much air past it !
->
-> The original O-235 was 100/108
hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
-> and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I
believe that was with
-> 6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have.
The HP rating was at
-> 2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds
like your W-D was also
-> pitched a bit too coarse ...
->
-> I do remember that the O-235
liked to be cruised fast,
-> and was happiest cruising all day at
2,450 rpm...... certainly
-> no danger of harm, as long as your temps are ok.
->
-> As for getting the Rebel off the
ground, I assume you
-> are using full flap for takeoff ???
That's what the flap is
-> there for !!! You can back off to 2
notches after you are out
-> of ground effect - but using all of it
should definitely get
-> you up faster.
->
-> If you still have the W-D, I
would just tweak it finer
-> to give you at least 2,500 static rpm,
and see if that helps...
-> If it does, then going to the Sensenich
will likely be a
-> "Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)
->
-> Keep us posted ! Good luck !
->
-> ....bobp
->
->
---------------------------------orig.-------
-----------------------------
-> At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Hi Bob,
-> >
-> >Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did
reply earlier but seems it did
not
-> >get posted either.
-> >
-> >The reason for the change of prop was
two fold, it was felt that the lack
of
-> >performance may be due in part to the
prop not being too efficient for
the
-> >job given the assumed marginal power
available. The second reason had to
do
-> >with alterations required to fit to my
new cowling, but this may have
been
-> >overcome now.
-> >
-> >It really comes down to the expensive of
changing the pistons for the
higher
-> >hp. Reading your account of flying the
118hp makes me want to do it even
-> >more! I do like the idea of having a
bit in reserve for when needed.
-> >
-> >What I did not want to do was to buy a
new sensenich prop at 48 pitch
only to
-> >find that I created problems elsewhere
and should have done something
-> >differently at this stage.
-> >
-> >Regards,
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA
wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> >
-> >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr
2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
Router v5.6.450.61)
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com;
Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800
-> >-> Received: from
nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> >-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr
2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> >-> Received: from
2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.32])
-> >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp
(Exim 3.34 #1)
-> >-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27
Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> >-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> >-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> >-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
-> >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> >-> Message-Id:
<E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> >-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >->
-> >->
-> >-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
-> >->
-> >-> I assume you're dumping the
Warp Drive because of the
-> >-> blade cracking problems .... Going
to high-compression pistons
-> >-> will really aggravate this problem,
so the W-D is out !!
-> >->
-> >-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo
fine - you should still get
-> >-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more
than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
-> >-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it
dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> >-> right across the country ! You
shouldn't have any problem getting
-> >-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass,
with clear approaches,
-> >-> as long as you're not heavily loaded.
The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
-> >-> tires from Murphy really help on soft
ground ...
-> >->
-> >-> I suggest just trying the
prop - it can always be re-pitched
-> >-> if needed. If the engine's running
good, and you like to run
-> >-> mogas, by all means, don't change
it..... save the money for
-> >-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
-> >->
-> >-> I have flown a Rebel with the
118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> >-> metal prop, and it was great - solid
110 mph cruise, and good climb.
-> >-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at
108 hp.....
-> >->
-> >-> I second Ralph's opinion -
the Elite nosewheel would
-> >-> not be good on rough or soft fields.
(Curious why you ask ???)
-> >->
-> >->
.....bobp
-> >->
-> >->
-------------------------------------orig.---
--------------------------
-> >-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp
turning a 68" 3 bladed warp
drive. I
-> >am
-> >-> >looking at changing to a sensenich
72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> >sensenich.
-> >-> >My problem is that although this
prop may get me out of the small
field
-> >-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise
speed. Being rated for 105hp at
-> >2400rpm
-> >-> >does not leave much room. I am
comtemplating having the engine re-
rated
-> >back
-> >-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as
to the benefits of doing this or
-> >changing
-> >-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed.
The engine only has 200hrs smoh so
I
-> >am
-> >-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Regards,
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Bob
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >->
*-------------------------------------------
--------------------------
----
-> >*
-> >-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> >-> >
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cribe.wcx
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rebel · Post by **rebel** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Hello Walter,

Welcome to the mire. I was getting an action plan altogether until your
message! Your WD diameter is considerably bigger than the wd I have, ie 68".
This must have had a negative effect on thrust. I am concerned about the
cracking issue on the wd now, and MAC say they do not recommend them anymore
and a previous message saying that WD no longer supply for lycomings.........
the writing is pretty much on the wall.

The sensenich may have slightly less performance but must give more confidence.

Bob

On 5/1/2003 10:43 AM, WALTER.KLATT@SHAW.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <walter.klatt@shaw.ca> Thu, 01 May 2003 05:18:18 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 05:18:18 -0800
-> Received: from shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net ([24.71.223.10])
EHLO=pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 155037750; Thu, 01 May 2003 05:18:17 -0800
-> Received: from pd6mr4so.prod.shaw.ca
-> (pd6mr4so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.219]) by l-daemon
-> (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003))
-> with ESMTP id <0HE7005B9MAYCA@l-daemon> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu,
-> 01 May 2003 07:18:34 -0600 (MDT)
-> Received: from pn2ml10so.prod.shaw.ca
-> (pn2ml10so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.80])
-> by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002))
-> with ESMTP id <0HE7007FLMAYM5@l-daemon> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu,
-> 01 May 2003 07:18:34 -0600 (MDT)
-> Received: from user ([24.82.18.134])
-> by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002))
-> with SMTP id <0HE700CC8MAXJB@l-daemon> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu,
-> 01 May 2003 07:18:34 -0600 (MDT)
-> Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 06:19:19 -0700
-> From: Walter Klatt <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
-> Subject: RE: lycoming 0-235
-> In-reply-to: <1051774450@dcsol.com>
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Message-id: <PFEOJDIIGOHLFACHDMDNIEDGCHAA.Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
-> X-Orig-MIME-version: 1.0
-> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
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-> X-Orig-Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
-> Importance: Normal
-> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
-> X-MSMail-priority: Normal
->
-> FWIW, I recently switched from a 3 blade 72" WD on my
-> 150 hp 0320 amphib Rebel to a 74 X 54 Sensenich, and
-> much to my surprise found that the WD outperformed the
-> 2 blade metal Sensenich in both climb and cruise. This
-> was also despite having the WD set at 2450 static,
-> while the Sensenich turns 2500 on static. The WD is
-> also 25 pounds lighter and in my case, I never had any
-> root collar cracking.
->
-> Walter
->
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
-> > bob.hyatt@dcsol.com
-> > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:34 AM
-> > To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> >
-> >
-> > Hi Bobp,
-> >
-> > Thanks for the reply,
-> >
-> > Sounds like the wd probably is on the short
-> > side, WD themselves said 'about'
-> > 68 or 70, I was working on the premise that
-> > 72" on a 2 blade may be similar
-> > to a the thrust available from a 68" 3
-> > blade, but truth is I do not know! I
-> > suppose what is important is the area that
-> > the thrust is actually out and
-> > beyond the cowling, and the farther out the
-> > faster the tip must be going.
-> > The blades on the wd are not very deep
-> > across so this prob has an adverse
-> > effect as well.
-> >
-> > On takeoff I have never tried full flap but,
-> > have limited it 10 degrees, I
-> > would have thought full flap would also
-> > increased the drag considerably and
-> > defeat the object????
-> >
-> > Thanks for you input, I will keep you posted
-> >
-> > Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > On 4/30/2003 11:26 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote
-> > to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> >
-> > -> From <apat@istar.ca> Wed, 30 Apr 2003
-> > 17:59:02 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> > -> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > Router v5.6.450.61)
-> > -> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com;
-> > Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800
-> > -> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net
-> > ([203.176.60.253])
-> > EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> > -> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> > -> id 114281171; Wed, 30 Apr 2003
-> > 17:59:00 -0800
-> > -> Received: from
-> > 2cust75.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.75])
-> > -> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> > -> id 19B3Ln-0006ew-00
-> > -> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr
-> > 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> > -> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> > -> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> > -> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> > -> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain;
-> > charset="us-ascii"
-> > -> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> > -> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> > -> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> > -> Message-Id:
-> > <E19B3Ln-0006ew-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> > -> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > -> You might be right about your
-> > prop - most folks here have
-> > -> used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The
-> > Rebel is pretty 'fat',
-> > -> and that short prop might not be moving
-> > much air past it !
-> > ->
-> > -> The original O-235 was 100/108
-> > hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
-> > -> and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I
-> > believe that was with
-> > -> 6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have.
-> > The HP rating was at
-> > -> 2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds
-> > like your W-D was also
-> > -> pitched a bit too coarse ...
-> > ->
-> > -> I do remember that the O-235
-> > liked to be cruised fast,
-> > -> and was happiest cruising all day at
-> > 2,450 rpm...... certainly
-> > -> no danger of harm, as long as your temps are ok.
-> > ->
-> > -> As for getting the Rebel off the
-> > ground, I assume you
-> > -> are using full flap for takeoff ???
-> > That's what the flap is
-> > -> there for !!! You can back off to 2
-> > notches after you are out
-> > -> of ground effect - but using all of it
-> > should definitely get
-> > -> you up faster.
-> > ->
-> > -> If you still have the W-D, I
-> > would just tweak it finer
-> > -> to give you at least 2,500 static rpm,
-> > and see if that helps...
-> > -> If it does, then going to the Sensenich
-> > will likely be a
-> > -> "Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)
-> > ->
-> > -> Keep us posted ! Good luck !
-> > ->
-> > -> ....bobp
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > ---------------------------------orig.-------
-> > -----------------------------
-> > -> At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> > -> >Hi Bob,
-> > -> >
-> > -> >Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did
-> > reply earlier but seems it did
-> > not
-> > -> >get posted either.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >The reason for the change of prop was
-> > two fold, it was felt that the lack
-> > of
-> > -> >performance may be due in part to the
-> > prop not being too efficient for
-> > the
-> > -> >job given the assumed marginal power
-> > available. The second reason had to
-> > do
-> > -> >with alterations required to fit to my
-> > new cowling, but this may have
-> > been
-> > -> >overcome now.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >It really comes down to the expensive of
-> > changing the pistons for the
-> > higher
-> > -> >hp. Reading your account of flying the
-> > 118hp makes me want to do it even
-> > -> >more! I do like the idea of having a
-> > bit in reserve for when needed.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >What I did not want to do was to buy a
-> > new sensenich prop at 48 pitch
-> > only to
-> > -> >find that I created problems elsewhere
-> > and should have done something
-> > -> >differently at this stage.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >Regards,
-> > -> >
-> > -> >Bob
-> > -> >
-> > -> >On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA
-> > wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> > -> >
-> > -> >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr
-> > 2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from
-> > dcsol.com
-> > -> >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > Router v5.6.450.61)
-> > -> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com;
-> > Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800
-> > -> >-> Received: from
-> > nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> > -> >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> > -> >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> > -> >-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr
-> > 2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> > -> >-> Received: from
-> > 2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.32])
-> > -> >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp
-> > (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> > -> >-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> > -> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27
-> > Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> > -> >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> > -> >-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> > -> >-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> > -> >-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain;
-> > charset="us-ascii"
-> > -> >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> > -> >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> > -> >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> > -> >-> Message-Id:
-> > <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> > -> >-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I assume you're dumping the
-> > Warp Drive because of the
-> > -> >-> blade cracking problems .... Going
-> > to high-compression pistons
-> > -> >-> will really aggravate this problem,
-> > so the W-D is out !!
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo
-> > fine - you should still get
-> > -> >-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more
-> > than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
-> > -> >-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it
-> > dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> > -> >-> right across the country ! You
-> > shouldn't have any problem getting
-> > -> >-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass,
-> > with clear approaches,
-> > -> >-> as long as you're not heavily loaded.
-> > The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
-> > -> >-> tires from Murphy really help on soft
-> > ground ...
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I suggest just trying the
-> > prop - it can always be re-pitched
-> > -> >-> if needed. If the engine's running
-> > good, and you like to run
-> > -> >-> mogas, by all means, don't change
-> > it..... save the money for
-> > -> >-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I have flown a Rebel with the
-> > 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> > -> >-> metal prop, and it was great - solid
-> > 110 mph cruise, and good climb.
-> > -> >-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at
-> > 108 hp.....
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I second Ralph's opinion -
-> > the Elite nosewheel would
-> > -> >-> not be good on rough or soft fields.
-> > (Curious why you ask ???)
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >->
-> > .....bobp
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >->
-> > -------------------------------------orig.---
-> > --------------------------
-> > -> >-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> > -> >-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp
-> > turning a 68" 3 bladed warp
-> > drive. I
-> > -> >am
-> > -> >-> >looking at changing to a sensenich
-> > 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> > -> >sensenich.
-> > -> >-> >My problem is that although this
-> > prop may get me out of the small
-> > field
-> > -> >-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise
-> > speed. Being rated for 105hp at
-> > -> >2400rpm
-> > -> >-> >does not leave much room. I am
-> > comtemplating having the engine re-
-> > rated
-> > -> >back
-> > -> >-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as
-> > to the benefits of doing this or
-> > -> >changing
-> > -> >-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed.
-> > The engine only has 200hrs smoh so
-> > I
-> > -> >am
-> > -> >-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >Regards,
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >Bob
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >->
-> > >*-------------------------------------------
-> > --------------------------
-> > ----
-> > -> >*
-> > -> >-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > -> >-> >
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subs
-> cribe.wcx
-> -> >-> > Archives located at
-> http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> -> >-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail
-> mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -> >->
-> >*-----------------------------------------------------
-> ----------------
-> ----
-> -> >*
-> -> >-> >
-> -> >-> >
-> -> >-> >
-> -> >-> >
-> -> >->
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> ->
-> >*-----------------------------------------------------
-> --------------------
-> *
-> -> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> -> >
-> http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
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-> *
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> ->
->
->
->
->
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-> To unsubscribe from this list go to:
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Hi Bob !

Adjusting your W-D to give you about 2,500 (+ ?) static will
at least tell you if you're going the right way ....

If that does improve your takeoff, then you could feel better
about going to the Sensenich. It's probably a good decision.

The flapperons on the Rebel produce more lift than drag,
especially at low speeds. I always take off (and land) with full flap,
as this reduces the ground roll, and the speed. You can drop to
2 notches for climb, once out of ground effect - some playing around
will find the best climb setting... it might even be one notch,
with the O-235...

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 11:34 PM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Bobp,

Thanks for the reply,

Sounds like the wd probably is on the short side, WD themselves said 'about'
68 or 70, I was working on the premise that 72" on a 2 blade may be similar
to a the thrust available from a 68" 3 blade, but truth is I do not know! I
suppose what is important is the area that the thrust is actually out and
beyond the cowling, and the farther out the faster the tip must be going.
The blades on the wd are not very deep across so this prob has an adverse
effect as well.

On takeoff I have never tried full flap but, have limited it 10 degrees, I
would have thought full flap would also increased the drag considerably and
defeat the object????

Thanks for you input, I will keep you posted

Bob

On 4/30/2003 11:26 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800
-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 114281171; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:00 -0800
-> Received: from 2cust75.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.75])
-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> id 19B3Ln-0006ew-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Message-Id: <E19B3Ln-0006ew-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
->
->
-> You might be right about your prop - most folks here have
-> used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The Rebel is pretty 'fat',
-> and that short prop might not be moving much air past it !
->
-> The original O-235 was 100/108 hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
-> and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I believe that was with
-> 6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have. The HP rating was at
-> 2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds like your W-D was also
-> pitched a bit too coarse ...
->
-> I do remember that the O-235 liked to be cruised fast,
-> and was happiest cruising all day at 2,450 rpm...... certainly
-> no danger of harm, as long as your temps are ok.
->
-> As for getting the Rebel off the ground, I assume you
-> are using full flap for takeoff ??? That's what the flap is
-> there for !!! You can back off to 2 notches after you are out
-> of ground effect - but using all of it should definitely get
-> you up faster.
->
-> If you still have the W-D, I would just tweak it finer
-> to give you at least 2,500 static rpm, and see if that helps...
-> If it does, then going to the Sensenich will likely be a
-> "Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)
->
-> Keep us posted ! Good luck !
->
-> ....bobp
->
-> ---------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
-> At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Hi Bob,
-> >
-> >Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did reply earlier but seems it did
not
-> >get posted either.
-> >
-> >The reason for the change of prop was two fold, it was felt that the lack
of
-> >performance may be due in part to the prop not being too efficient for
the
-> >job given the assumed marginal power available. The second reason had to
do
-> >with alterations required to fit to my new cowling, but this may have
been
-> >overcome now.
-> >
-> >It really comes down to the expensive of changing the pistons for the
higher
-> >hp. Reading your account of flying the 118hp makes me want to do it even
-> >more! I do like the idea of having a bit in reserve for when needed.
-> >
-> >What I did not want to do was to buy a new sensenich prop at 48 pitch
only to
-> >find that I created problems elsewhere and should have done something
-> >differently at this stage.
-> >
-> >Regards,
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> >
-> >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800
-> >-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> >-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> >-> Received: from 2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.32])
-> >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> >-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> >-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> >-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> >-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> >-> Message-Id: <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> >-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >->
-> >->
-> >-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
-> >->
-> >-> I assume you're dumping the Warp Drive because of the
-> >-> blade cracking problems .... Going to high-compression pistons
-> >-> will really aggravate this problem, so the W-D is out !!
-> >->
-> >-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo fine - you should still get
-> >-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
-> >-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> >-> right across the country ! You shouldn't have any problem getting
-> >-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass, with clear approaches,
-> >-> as long as you're not heavily loaded. The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
-> >-> tires from Murphy really help on soft ground ...
-> >->
-> >-> I suggest just trying the prop - it can always be re-pitched
-> >-> if needed. If the engine's running good, and you like to run
-> >-> mogas, by all means, don't change it..... save the money for
-> >-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
-> >->
-> >-> I have flown a Rebel with the 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> >-> metal prop, and it was great - solid 110 mph cruise, and good climb.
-> >-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at 108 hp.....
-> >->
-> >-> I second Ralph's opinion - the Elite nosewheel would
-> >-> not be good on rough or soft fields. (Curious why you ask ???)
-> >->
-> >-> .....bobp
-> >->
-> >-> -------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
-> >-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp
drive. I
-> >am
-> >-> >looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> >sensenich.
-> >-> >My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small
field
-> >-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp at
-> >2400rpm
-> >-> >does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine re-
rated
-> >back
-> >-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this or
-> >changing
-> >-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs smoh so
I
-> >am
-> >-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Regards,
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Bob
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >*---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Yeah, I debated with myself before wading in. There has
been lots of discussion in the past about the WD. But
since I did, I also shouldn't leave you with the wrong
impression of why I switched.

Unlike many others on this list, I don't have a concern
about reliability of the WD prop. I don't know of a
single failure of this prop (cracking is just a
warning) in flight which is more than I can say for the
metal real plane props. I know of one person locally
here that has put on several hundred hours after the
collar cracked on his WD and is still flying it. So I
know that it will not instantly fail if a crack
appears.

The reason I switched is because I thought that
performance would be better, not my concern over
reliability. Unfortunately, I learned that the WD is
actually a better performer.

I am keeping my WD and would not hesitate to use it
again, and will keep it as a spare if I ever go to
straight wheels again.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:49 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: lycoming 0-235

Hello Walter,

Welcome to the mire. I was getting an
action plan altogether until your
message! Your WD diameter is considerably
bigger than the wd I have, ie 68".
This must have had a negative effect on
thrust. I am concerned about the
cracking issue on the wd now, and MAC say
they do not recommend them anymore
and a previous message saying that WD no
longer supply for lycomings.........
the writing is pretty much on the wall.

The sensenich may have slightly less
performance but must give more confidence.

Bob

On 5/1/2003 10:43 AM, WALTER.KLATT@SHAW.CA
wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <walter.klatt@shaw.ca> Thu, 01 May
2003 05:18:18 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
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EHLO=pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
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for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu,
-> 01 May 2003 07:18:34 -0600 (MDT)
-> Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 06:19:19 -0700
-> From: Walter Klatt <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
-> Subject: RE: lycoming 0-235
-> In-reply-to: <1051774450@dcsol.com>
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Message-id:
<PFEOJDIIGOHLFACHDMDNIEDGCHAA.Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
-> X-Orig-MIME-version: 1.0
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-> Importance: Normal
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->
-> FWIW, I recently switched from a 3 blade
72" WD on my
-> 150 hp 0320 amphib Rebel to a 74 X 54
Sensenich, and
-> much to my surprise found that the WD
outperformed the
-> 2 blade metal Sensenich in both climb and
cruise. This
-> was also despite having the WD set at 2450 static,
-> while the Sensenich turns 2500 on static.
The WD is
-> also 25 pounds lighter and in my case, I
never had any
-> root collar cracking.
->
-> Walter
->
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
-> > bob.hyatt@dcsol.com
-> > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:34 AM
-> > To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> >
-> >
-> > Hi Bobp,
-> >
-> > Thanks for the reply,
-> >
-> > Sounds like the wd probably is on the short
-> > side, WD themselves said 'about'
-> > 68 or 70, I was working on the premise that
-> > 72" on a 2 blade may be similar
-> > to a the thrust available from a 68" 3
-> > blade, but truth is I do not know! I
-> > suppose what is important is the area that
-> > the thrust is actually out and
-> > beyond the cowling, and the farther out the
-> > faster the tip must be going.
-> > The blades on the wd are not very deep
-> > across so this prob has an adverse
-> > effect as well.
-> >
-> > On takeoff I have never tried full flap but,
-> > have limited it 10 degrees, I
-> > would have thought full flap would also
-> > increased the drag considerably and
-> > defeat the object????
-> >
-> > Thanks for you input, I will keep you posted
-> >
-> > Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > On 4/30/2003 11:26 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote
-> > to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> >
-> > -> From <apat@istar.ca> Wed, 30 Apr 2003
-> > 17:59:02 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> > -> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > Router v5.6.450.61)
-> > -> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com;
-> > Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800
-> > -> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net
-> > ([203.176.60.253])
-> > EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> > -> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> > -> id 114281171; Wed, 30 Apr 2003
-> > 17:59:00 -0800
-> > -> Received: from
-> > 2cust75.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net
([64.10.100.75])
-> > -> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp
(Exim 3.34 #1)
-> > -> id 19B3Ln-0006ew-00
-> > -> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr
-> > 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> > -> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> > -> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
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-> > -> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain;
-> > charset="us-ascii"
-> > -> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> > -> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> > -> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> > -> Message-Id:
-> > <E19B3Ln-0006ew-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> > -> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > -> You might be right about your
-> > prop - most folks here have
-> > -> used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The
-> > Rebel is pretty 'fat',
-> > -> and that short prop might not be moving
-> > much air past it !
-> > ->
-> > -> The original O-235 was 100/108
-> > hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
-> > -> and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I
-> > believe that was with
-> > -> 6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have.
-> > The HP rating was at
-> > -> 2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds
-> > like your W-D was also
-> > -> pitched a bit too coarse ...
-> > ->
-> > -> I do remember that the O-235
-> > liked to be cruised fast,
-> > -> and was happiest cruising all day at
-> > 2,450 rpm...... certainly
-> > -> no danger of harm, as long as your
temps are ok.
-> > ->
-> > -> As for getting the Rebel off the
-> > ground, I assume you
-> > -> are using full flap for takeoff ???
-> > That's what the flap is
-> > -> there for !!! You can back off to 2
-> > notches after you are out
-> > -> of ground effect - but using all of it
-> > should definitely get
-> > -> you up faster.
-> > ->
-> > -> If you still have the W-D, I
-> > would just tweak it finer
-> > -> to give you at least 2,500 static rpm,
-> > and see if that helps...
-> > -> If it does, then going to the Sensenich
-> > will likely be a
-> > -> "Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)
-> > ->
-> > -> Keep us posted ! Good luck !
-> > ->
-> > ->
....bobp
-> > ->
-> > ->
-> > ---------------------------------orig.-------
-> > -----------------------------
-> > -> At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> > -> >Hi Bob,
-> > -> >
-> > -> >Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did
-> > reply earlier but seems it did
-> > not
-> > -> >get posted either.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >The reason for the change of prop was
-> > two fold, it was felt that the lack
-> > of
-> > -> >performance may be due in part to the
-> > prop not being too efficient for
-> > the
-> > -> >job given the assumed marginal power
-> > available. The second reason had to
-> > do
-> > -> >with alterations required to fit to my
-> > new cowling, but this may have
-> > been
-> > -> >overcome now.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >It really comes down to the expensive of
-> > changing the pistons for the
-> > higher
-> > -> >hp. Reading your account of flying the
-> > 118hp makes me want to do it even
-> > -> >more! I do like the idea of having a
-> > bit in reserve for when needed.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >What I did not want to do was to buy a
-> > new sensenich prop at 48 pitch
-> > only to
-> > -> >find that I created problems elsewhere
-> > and should have done something
-> > -> >differently at this stage.
-> > -> >
-> > -> >Regards,
-> > -> >
-> > -> >Bob
-> > -> >
-> > -> >On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA
-> > wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> > -> >
-> > -> >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr
-> > 2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from
-> > dcsol.com
-> > -> >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > Router v5.6.450.61)
-> > -> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com;
-> > Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800
-> > -> >-> Received: from
-> > nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> > -> >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> > -> >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP
-> > v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> > -> >-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr
-> > 2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> > -> >-> Received: from
-> > 2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net
([64.10.100.32])
-> > -> >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp
-> > (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> > -> >-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> > -> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27
-> > Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> > -> >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
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Version 1.5.2
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-> > charset="us-ascii"
-> > -> >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> > -> >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> > -> >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> > -> >-> Message-Id:
-> > <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> > -> >-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I assume you're dumping the
-> > Warp Drive because of the
-> > -> >-> blade cracking problems .... Going
-> > to high-compression pistons
-> > -> >-> will really aggravate this problem,
-> > so the W-D is out !!
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo
-> > fine - you should still get
-> > -> >-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more
-> > than 95 cruise with my O-235-C2C
-> > -> >-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it
-> > dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> > -> >-> right across the country ! You
-> > shouldn't have any problem getting
-> > -> >-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass,
-> > with clear approaches,
-> > -> >-> as long as you're not heavily loaded.
-> > The fat DICO or Carlyle 800-6
-> > -> >-> tires from Murphy really help on soft
-> > ground ...
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I suggest just trying the
-> > prop - it can always be re-pitched
-> > -> >-> if needed. If the engine's running
-> > good, and you like to run
-> > -> >-> mogas, by all means, don't change
-> > it..... save the money for
-> > -> >-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I have flown a Rebel with the
-> > 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> > -> >-> metal prop, and it was great - solid
-> > 110 mph cruise, and good climb.
-> > -> >-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at
-> > 108 hp.....
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >-> I second Ralph's opinion -
-> > the Elite nosewheel would
-> > -> >-> not be good on rough or soft fields.
-> > (Curious why you ask ???)
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >->
-> > .....bobp
-> > -> >->
-> > -> >->
-> > -------------------------------------orig.---
-> > --------------------------
-> > -> >-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> > -> >-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp
-> > turning a 68" 3 bladed warp
-> > drive. I
-> > -> >am
-> > -> >-> >looking at changing to a sensenich
-> > 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> > -> >sensenich.
-> > -> >-> >My problem is that although this
-> > prop may get me out of the small
-> > field
-> > -> >-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise
-> > speed. Being rated for 105hp at
-> > -> >2400rpm
-> > -> >-> >does not leave much room. I am
-> > comtemplating having the engine re-
-> > rated
-> > -> >back
-> > -> >-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as
-> > to the benefits of doing this or
-> > -> >changing
-> > -> >-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed.
-> > The engine only has 200hrs smoh so
-> > I
-> > -> >am
-> > -> >-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >Regards,
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >Bob
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >-> >
-> > -> >->
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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Bob, I echo Bob Patterson there! Take some pitch out of that WD and run the
shit out of it!! I am speaking from experience here as I told you before I
had the O-235-C model on my Rebel originally and it was only 100HP@2600RPM.
When I changed from my wood prop to the WD (3BLADE x 70") I was already on
skis and tried setting the prop pitch to give a similar 2250 RPM "static
tied to a tree" that you would with a metal propellor. The airplane at full
power would just barely move in the snow and I thought I had wasted a big
chunk of change buying the WDrive. I then repitched to get 2450 to 2475
static. At that pitch it jumped out of the snow and climbed at approx
1400FPM (flight weight about 1400lbs). Even with this high of a static RPM I
could not readline past the 2600RPM unless I stuck it in a dive! The WD
seems to twist while in flight and gets a little coarser once you start
bitting air, sorta like a constant speed prop.

Knock on wood, my 70" WD is still crack free after 6 years. 2 1/2 of them on
the O-235 and 3 1/2 using the same propellor on my O-320-C2A x 150HP.

Try playing with the prop before you spend any money on the engine. If it
was originally a 118HP engine then it has no internal reason why you can't
use 2800RPM for take off (5 minutes) and 2700 continuous.

As for the flaps, if the stick is centered they indeed only go down 18*
(well you can sneak it to 23* actually). When you move the stick left/right
they indeed go further down so the sucker will turn, but you should have
about three notches set at 6*/12*/18* or at the most 7*/15*/23*. I always
use full flaps when on skis to help lift me up out of the snow. Same thing
applies in heavy grass etc or a short field to get her off the ground, then
dump a notch for climb out.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235

Hi Bob !

Adjusting your W-D to give you about 2,500 (+ ?) static will
at least tell you if you're going the right way ....

If that does improve your takeoff, then you could feel better
about going to the Sensenich. It's probably a good decision.

The flapperons on the Rebel produce more lift than drag,
especially at low speeds. I always take off (and land) with full flap,
as this reduces the ground roll, and the speed. You can drop to
2 notches for climb, once out of ground effect - some playing around
will find the best climb setting... it might even be one notch,
with the O-235...

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 11:34 PM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
Hi Bobp,

Thanks for the reply,

Sounds like the wd probably is on the short side, WD themselves said

'about'

68 or 70, I was working on the premise that 72" on a 2 blade may be

similar

to a the thrust available from a 68" 3 blade, but truth is I do not know!

I

suppose what is important is the area that the thrust is actually out and
beyond the cowling, and the farther out the faster the tip must be going.
The blades on the wd are not very deep across so this prob has an adverse
effect as well.

On takeoff I have never tried full flap but, have limited it 10 degrees,

I

would have thought full flap would also increased the drag considerably

and

defeat the object????

Thanks for you input, I will keep you posted

Bob

On 4/30/2003 11:26 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800 remote from

dcsol.com

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-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
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-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Message-Id: <E19B3Ln-0006ew-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
->
->
-> You might be right about your prop - most folks here have
-> used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The Rebel is pretty 'fat',
-> and that short prop might not be moving much air past it !
->
-> The original O-235 was 100/108 hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
-> and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I believe that was with
-> 6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have. The HP rating was at
-> 2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds like your W-D was also
-> pitched a bit too coarse ...
->
-> I do remember that the O-235 liked to be cruised fast,
-> and was happiest cruising all day at 2,450 rpm...... certainly
-> no danger of harm, as long as your temps are ok.
->
-> As for getting the Rebel off the ground, I assume you
-> are using full flap for takeoff ??? That's what the flap is
-> there for !!! You can back off to 2 notches after you are out
-> of ground effect - but using all of it should definitely get
-> you up faster.
->
-> If you still have the W-D, I would just tweak it finer
-> to give you at least 2,500 static rpm, and see if that helps...
-> If it does, then going to the Sensenich will likely be a
-> "Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)
->
-> Keep us posted ! Good luck !
->
-> ....bobp
->
-> ---------------------------------orig.----------------------------------

--

-> At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Hi Bob,
-> >
-> >Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did reply earlier but seems it

did

not
-> >get posted either.
-> >
-> >The reason for the change of prop was two fold, it was felt that the

lack

of
-> >performance may be due in part to the prop not being too efficient

for

the
-> >job given the assumed marginal power available. The second reason

had to

do
-> >with alterations required to fit to my new cowling, but this may have
been
-> >overcome now.
-> >
-> >It really comes down to the expensive of changing the pistons for the
higher
-> >hp. Reading your account of flying the 118hp makes me want to do it

even

-> >more! I do like the idea of having a bit in reserve for when needed.
-> >
-> >What I did not want to do was to buy a new sensenich prop at 48 pitch
only to
-> >find that I created problems elsewhere and should have done something
-> >differently at this stage.
-> >
-> >Regards,
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> >
-> >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003

19:02:45 -0800

-> >-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> >-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> >-> Received: from 2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.32])
-> >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> >-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> >-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> >-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> >-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> >-> Message-Id: <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> >-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> >->
-> >->
-> >-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
-> >->
-> >-> I assume you're dumping the Warp Drive because of the
-> >-> blade cracking problems .... Going to high-compression pistons
-> >-> will really aggravate this problem, so the W-D is out !!
-> >->
-> >-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo fine - you should still get
-> >-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more than 95 cruise with my

O-235-C2C

-> >-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> >-> right across the country ! You shouldn't have any problem

getting

-> >-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass, with clear approaches,
-> >-> as long as you're not heavily loaded. The fat DICO or Carlyle

800-6

-> >-> tires from Murphy really help on soft ground ...
-> >->
-> >-> I suggest just trying the prop - it can always be

re-pitched

-> >-> if needed. If the engine's running good, and you like to run
-> >-> mogas, by all means, don't change it..... save the money for
-> >-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
-> >->
-> >-> I have flown a Rebel with the 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> >-> metal prop, and it was great - solid 110 mph cruise, and good

climb.

-> >-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at 108 hp.....
-> >->
-> >-> I second Ralph's opinion - the Elite nosewheel would
-> >-> not be good on rough or soft fields. (Curious why you ask ???)
-> >->
-> >-> .....bobp
-> >->
->
-> -------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
-> >-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp
drive. I
-> >am
-> >-> >looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> >sensenich.
-> >-> >My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the small
field
-> >-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for 105hp

at

-> >2400rpm
-> >-> >does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine

re-

rated
-> >back
-> >-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing this

or

-> >changing
-> >-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs

smoh so

I
-> >am
-> >-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Regards,
-> >-> >
-> >-> >Bob
-> >-> >
-> >-> >
-> >->
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rebel · Post by **rebel** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Hi Wayne,

I take on board and accept what you are saying and it certainly makes alot
more sense to try and play with what I got before spending any monies only to
find little or no improvement.

Am I right in thinking that if I pitch the prop to achieve the 2800rpm then
it is going to be quite fine (it is 11.5 now, measured 4" in from the tip and
achieves the 2100(ish) static rpm. I accept that I will climb out like a
scaled cat but when I throttle back in the cruise, say 2300rpm, then I am
still going to be turing a very finely pitched prop (save for the twisting
effect) is this going to have a significant negative effect on performance.
I understand the analogy given earlier about the bike and the different
gears. I think I will be pedalling a mile a minute in the cruise but gettig
nowhere. Just a thought.

I will definately play around with the pitch etc before doing anything, sound
advice.

A further thought, my understanding is that the L2C is rated for
105/112/115/118 hp at 2400/2600/2700/2800 rpm. The hp is governed by the
prop specified for the aircraft presumably to prevent exceeding design
limitations. Now this is all given that they have standard 8.5:1 pistons
(this maybe where I start to go wrong) so in this case you could wind up the
engine to 2800rpm and produce 118hp but then throttle back and accept less
hp. Now remove the std pistons and install the 108hp pistons and the whole
ball game changes. Even by winding up the engine to 2800rpm you will not get
the 118hp output. You will be reving it away but no extra thrust being
developed.

I will check my flap settings again because I am certain mine go down to a
barn door 30degrees. I will certainly try the 18degree inital setting to get
airborne then lose a notch.

Thanks,

Bob

On 5/1/2003 11:33 PM, OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> Thu, 01 May 2003 13:26:39 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 13:26:39 -0800
-> Received: from diablo.csolve.net ([207.61.27.158]) EHLO=diablo.csolve.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 184330000; Thu, 01 May 2003 13:26:29 -0800
-> Received: from barrie-dialport-216.209.18.175.csolve.net ([216.209.18.175]
helo=celeron266a)
-> by diablo.csolve.net with smtp (Exim 4.10)
-> id 19BLZg-0006rN-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 17:26:43 -0400
-> Message-ID: <002101c31027$b68ae230$e401910a@celeron266a>
-> From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> References: <E19BG3C-0002E3-00@app5.nasc.inter.net>
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:22:02 -0400
-> Organization: O'Shea's Irish Field Aviation
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
-> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
->
-> Bob, I echo Bob Patterson there! Take some pitch out of that WD and run the
-> shit out of it!! I am speaking from experience here as I told you before I
-> had the O-235-C model on my Rebel originally and it was only 100HP@2600RPM.
-> When I changed from my wood prop to the WD (3BLADE x 70") I was already on
-> skis and tried setting the prop pitch to give a similar 2250 RPM "static
-> tied to a tree" that you would with a metal propellor. The airplane at full
-> power would just barely move in the snow and I thought I had wasted a big
-> chunk of change buying the WDrive. I then repitched to get 2450 to 2475
-> static. At that pitch it jumped out of the snow and climbed at approx
-> 1400FPM (flight weight about 1400lbs). Even with this high of a static RPM
I
-> could not readline past the 2600RPM unless I stuck it in a dive! The WD
-> seems to twist while in flight and gets a little coarser once you start
-> bitting air, sorta like a constant speed prop.
->
-> Knock on wood, my 70" WD is still crack free after 6 years. 2 1/2 of them
on
-> the O-235 and 3 1/2 using the same propellor on my O-320-C2A x 150HP.
->
-> Try playing with the prop before you spend any money on the engine. If it
-> was originally a 118HP engine then it has no internal reason why you can't
-> use 2800RPM for take off (5 minutes) and 2700 continuous.
->
-> As for the flaps, if the stick is centered they indeed only go down 18*
-> (well you can sneak it to 23* actually). When you move the stick left/right
-> they indeed go further down so the sucker will turn, but you should have
-> about three notches set at 6*/12*/18* or at the most 7*/15*/23*. I always
-> use full flaps when on skis to help lift me up out of the snow. Same thing
-> applies in heavy grass etc or a short field to get her off the ground, then
-> dump a notch for climb out.
->
-> Cheers,
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:32 AM
-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
->
->
-> >
-> > Hi Bob !
-> >
-> > Adjusting your W-D to give you about 2,500 (+ ?) static will
-> > at least tell you if you're going the right way ....
-> >
-> > If that does improve your takeoff, then you could feel better
-> > about going to the Sensenich. It's probably a good decision.
-> >
-> > The flapperons on the Rebel produce more lift than drag,
-> > especially at low speeds. I always take off (and land) with full flap,
-> > as this reduces the ground roll, and the speed. You can drop to
-> > 2 notches for climb, once out of ground effect - some playing around
-> > will find the best climb setting... it might even be one notch,
-> > with the O-235...
-> >
-> > .....bobp
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
-> > At 11:34 PM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> > >Hi Bobp,
-> > >
-> > >Thanks for the reply,
-> > >
-> > >Sounds like the wd probably is on the short side, WD themselves said
-> 'about'
-> > >68 or 70, I was working on the premise that 72" on a 2 blade may be
-> similar
-> > >to a the thrust available from a 68" 3 blade, but truth is I do not
know!
-> I
-> > >suppose what is important is the area that the thrust is actually out
and
-> > >beyond the cowling, and the farther out the faster the tip must be
going.
-> > >The blades on the wd are not very deep across so this prob has an
adverse
-> > >effect as well.
-> > >
-> > >On takeoff I have never tried full flap but, have limited it 10 degrees,
-> I
-> > >would have thought full flap would also increased the drag considerably
-> and
-> > >defeat the object????
-> > >
-> > >Thanks for you input, I will keep you posted
-> > >
-> > >Bob
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >On 4/30/2003 11:26 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> > >
-> > >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800 remote from
-> dcsol.com
-> > >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> > >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:02 -0800
-> > >-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> > >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> > >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> > >-> id 114281171; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:59:00 -0800
-> > >-> Received: from 2cust75.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.75])
-> > >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> > >-> id 19B3Ln-0006ew-00
-> > >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> > >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> > >-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> > >-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> > >-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> > >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> > >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> > >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> > >-> Message-Id: <E19B3Ln-0006ew-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> > >-> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:59:07 -0400
-> > >->
-> > >->
-> > >-> You might be right about your prop - most folks here have
-> > >-> used 70" or 72" diameter Warp Drives. The Rebel is pretty 'fat',
-> > >-> and that short prop might not be moving much air past it !
-> > >->
-> > >-> The original O-235 was 100/108 hp. - the 100 was max. cont.,
-> > >-> and the 108 was for 5 min. at takeoff. I believe that was with
-> > >-> 6.5 to 1 pistons - about what you have. The HP rating was at
-> > >-> 2,600 rpm, as I recall - so it sounds like your W-D was also
-> > >-> pitched a bit too coarse ...
-> > >->
-> > >-> I do remember that the O-235 liked to be cruised fast,
-> > >-> and was happiest cruising all day at 2,450 rpm...... certainly
-> > >-> no danger of harm, as long as your temps are ok.
-> > >->
-> > >-> As for getting the Rebel off the ground, I assume you
-> > >-> are using full flap for takeoff ??? That's what the flap is
-> > >-> there for !!! You can back off to 2 notches after you are out
-> > >-> of ground effect - but using all of it should definitely get
-> > >-> you up faster.
-> > >->
-> > >-> If you still have the W-D, I would just tweak it finer
-> > >-> to give you at least 2,500 static rpm, and see if that helps...
-> > >-> If it does, then going to the Sensenich will likely be a
-> > >-> "Good Thing"(tm). ;-) :-)
-> > >->
-> > >-> Keep us posted ! Good luck !
-> > >->
-> > >-> ....bobp
-> > >->
-> >
-> >-> ---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
-
-> --
-> > >-> At 12:02 AM 4/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> > >-> >Hi Bob,
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >Thanks for the reply, as with Drew I did reply earlier but seems it
-> did
-> > >not
-> > >-> >get posted either.
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >The reason for the change of prop was two fold, it was felt that the
-> lack
-> > >of
-> > >-> >performance may be due in part to the prop not being too efficient
-> for
-> > >the
-> > >-> >job given the assumed marginal power available. The second reason
-> had to
-> > >do
-> > >-> >with alterations required to fit to my new cowling, but this may
have
-> > >been
-> > >-> >overcome now.
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >It really comes down to the expensive of changing the pistons for
the
-> > >higher
-> > >-> >hp. Reading your account of flying the 118hp makes me want to do it
-> even
-> > >-> >more! I do like the idea of having a bit in reserve for when
needed.
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >What I did not want to do was to buy a new sensenich prop at 48
pitch
-> > >only to
-> > >-> >find that I created problems elsewhere and should have done
something
-> > >-> >differently at this stage.
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >Regards,
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >Bob
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >On 4/29/2003 11:54 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> > >-> >
-> > >-> >-> From <apat@istar.ca> Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:45 -0800 remote from
-> > >dcsol.com
-> > >-> >-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> > >-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003
-> 19:02:45 -0800
-> > >-> >-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> > >-> >EHLO=app6.nasc.inter.net
-> > >-> >-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> > >-> >-> id 164454453; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:02:44 -0800
-> > >-> >-> Received: from 2cust32.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net
([64.10.100.32])
-> > >-> >-> by app6.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> > >-> >-> id 199yup-0001IN-00
-> > >-> >-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> > >-> >-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> > >-> >-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> > >-> >-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> > >-> >-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> > >-> >-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> > >-> >-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> > >-> >-> Subject: Re: lycoming 0-235
-> > >-> >-> Message-Id: <E199yup-0001IN-00@app6.nasc.inter.net>
-> > >-> >-> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:02:52 -0400
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >-> Hi Bob ! (good name !!! ;-) )
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >-> I assume you're dumping the Warp Drive because of the
-> > >-> >-> blade cracking problems .... Going to high-compression pistons
-> > >-> >-> will really aggravate this problem, so the W-D is out !!
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >-> 72 x 48 doesn't sound tooooo fine - you should still get
-> > >-> >-> about 90 - 95 mph. I never saw more than 95 cruise with my
-> O-235-C2C
-> > >-> >-> (100 hp - on a GOOD day !), and it dragged a pair of 1500 Amphibs
-> > >-> >-> right across the country ! You shouldn't have any problem
-> getting
-> > >-> >-> a Rebel out of 1,100 feet of grass, with clear approaches,
-> > >-> >-> as long as you're not heavily loaded. The fat DICO or Carlyle
-> 800-6
-> > >-> >-> tires from Murphy really help on soft ground ...
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >-> I suggest just trying the prop - it can always be
-> re-pitched
-> > >-> >-> if needed. If the engine's running good, and you like to run
-> > >-> >-> mogas, by all means, don't change it..... save the money for
-> > >-> >-> FLYING !!!! ;-) :-)
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >-> I have flown a Rebel with the 118 Hp Lycoming O-235-L2C,
-> > >-> >-> metal prop, and it was great - solid 110 mph cruise, and good
-> climb.
-> > >-> >-> MUCH better than my old C2C, rated at 108 hp.....
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >-> I second Ralph's opinion - the Elite nosewheel would
-> > >-> >-> not be good on rough or soft fields. (Curious why you ask ???)
-> > >-> >->
-> > >-> >-> .....bobp
-> > >-> >->
-> > >->
-> >-> -------------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
-> > >-> >-> At 11:17 AM 4/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> > >-> >-> >I have a lyc 0-235 derated to 105hp turning a 68" 3 bladed warp
-> > >drive. I
-> > >-> >am
-> > >-> >-> >looking at changing to a sensenich 72-ck-0-48 (as discussed with
-> > >-> >sensenich.
-> > >-> >-> >My problem is that although this prop may get me out of the
small
-> > >field
-> > >-> >-> >(390yds) it wont give me much cruise speed. Being rated for
105hp
-> at
-> > >-> >2400rpm
-> > >-> >-> >does not leave much room. I am comtemplating having the engine
-> re-
-> > >rated
-> > >-> >back
-> > >-> >-> >to 118hp but am getting confused as to the benefits of doing
this
-> or
-> > >-> >changing
-> > >-> >-> >the prop??? Any advice welcomed. The engine only has 200hrs
-> smoh so
-> > >I
-> > >-> >am
-> > >-> >-> >somewhat reluctant to change it.
-> > >-> >-> >
-> > >-> >-> >
-> > >-> >-> >Regards,
-> > >-> >-> >
-> > >-> >-> >Bob
-> > >-> >-> >
-> > >-> >-> >
-> > >-> >->
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