toe out

[klehman]

Hi

Below is a quote from Bruce Frank that sums up a recent discussion on
RAH about toe-in on taildraggers. It agrees with what was discussed with
Bill Tee at BobP's last rebel builder's meeting, and other sources.
Since there are some conflicting messages in the archive, I thought I'd
forward it here.

Only thing I'd add is that a lot of camber will change the toe a bit
between the 3 point and the tail up attitude. ie landing technique and
camber might explain some of the comments in the archives. IF you also
have a lot of postive camber for some reason, I believe zero toe
measured in the tail high attitude can still result in unwanted toe-in
with the tail down. (slack bungees would tend to result in negative
camber though ;) )
Ken

"With a tail wheel you want it "0". If you error make it to ever so
slight toe out. Ed Wischmeyer hinted as to why. If you foot work isn't
fast enough and the plane takes a swerve when the plane lifts the inside
wing and gear leg the weight dumps on the outside gear leg. If that gear
leg is toed inward the wheel steers to the inside of the turn further
lifting the wing leading to real trouble. If the wheel is toed out the
loading on that one wheel tends to cause it to steer away from the turn
forcing the wing back down and planting the other wheel on the pavement.
Toed in wheels have been found to cause many a squirrelly tail wheel
plane. When the condition was corrected the planes became docile on the
ground. One of the advantages of landing a tail wheel plane on grass is
that there is less traction for mis-aligned or mis-guided wheels to
create a significant excursion into the weeds."



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[allen.hewko]

I just read an article in COPA about needing slight toe out on a
taildragger to improve taxiing and landing. Anyone have any suggestions
for adjusting toe out on a Rebel?
Thanks in advance.

Allen H



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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 07:42 AM 2/2/2005 -0900, you wrote:

I just read an article in COPA about needing slight toe out on a
taildragger to improve taxiing and landing. Anyone have any suggestions
for adjusting toe out on a Rebel?
Thanks in advance.

Allen H

Sledgehammer? :) I read that article as well and it makes good sense for
many planes but I think the rebel lands slowly enough that you don't need
to worry about it. The one thing that was missed was what happens if you
land on one wheel in a stiff crosswind. It would seem to me that toe out
would increase the tendancy to weathercock into the wind and could
overpower the rudder.
Drew





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Straight ahead!!

The only way to go...you'll have no problems.

This toe in/toe out arguement has been around for decades!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Toe out

At 07:42 AM 2/2/2005 -0900, you wrote:

I just read an article in COPA about needing slight toe out on a
taildragger to improve taxiing and landing. Anyone have any suggestions
for adjusting toe out on a Rebel?
Thanks in advance.

Allen H

Sledgehammer? :) I read that article as well and it makes good sense for
many planes but I think the rebel lands slowly enough that you don't need
to worry about it. The one thing that was missed was what happens if you
land on one wheel in a stiff crosswind. It would seem to me that toe out
would increase the tendancy to weathercock into the wind and could
overpower the rudder.
Drew





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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Allen !

I

[Ralph Baker]

Drew,
Every thing I have ever heard on this subject suggested neutral or, if
that could not be achieved, 1/2 degree toe in. The adjustment is made
with wedge shims available from MAM or Aircraft Spruce. What I have
never seen in print is how to accurately measure the toe angle and to
determine if it is equal side to side.
Regards,
Ralph Baker




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[Ken]

It is remarkably accurate to hold a straight edge along the side of the
tire, and line of sight or run a string back to abeam the tailwheel.
Then compare distances from tailwheel. I use a 6 foot straight 1x2 piece
of pine for the straight edge.

One can also make little brackets to align the straight edge off the
wheel rims but for these little wheels it seems to work fine taking it
from the rubber sidewall.

In most cases the toe will change significantly between tail down or
tail up though...

Ken

Ralph Baker wrote:

Drew,
Every thing I have ever heard on this subject suggested neutral or, if
that could not be achieved, 1/2 degree toe in. The adjustment is made
with wedge shims available from MAM or Aircraft Spruce. What I have
never seen in print is how to accurately measure the toe angle and to
determine if it is equal side to side.
Regards,
Ralph Baker

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[Ralph Baker]

Thanks Ken,
We used to align our racebike wheels similarly and that was good for 180
mph. I just wondered if there was a better way.
Ralph Baker

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: toe out

It is remarkably accurate to hold a straight edge along the side of the
tire, and line of sight or run a string back to abeam the tailwheel.
Then compare distances from tailwheel. I use a 6 foot straight 1x2 piece
of pine for the straight edge.

One can also make little brackets to align the straight edge off the
wheel rims but for these little wheels it seems to work fine taking it
from the rubber sidewall.

In most cases the toe will change significantly between tail down or
tail up though...

Ken

Ralph Baker wrote:

Drew,
Every thing I have ever heard on this subject suggested neutral or, if
that could not be achieved, 1/2 degree toe in. The adjustment is made
with wedge shims available from MAM or Aircraft Spruce. What I have
never seen in print is how to accurately measure the toe angle and to
determine if it is equal side to side.
Regards,
Ralph Baker

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 08:19 PM 2/2/2005 -0500, you wrote:

Drew,
Every thing I have ever heard on this subject suggested neutral or, if
that could not be achieved, 1/2 degree toe in. The adjustment is made
with wedge shims available from MAM or Aircraft Spruce. What I have
never seen in print is how to accurately measure the toe angle and to
determine if it is equal side to side.
Regards,
Ralph Baker

I wasn't the one asking the question Ralph. My gear is neutral and I plan
to keep it that way. A couple years ago there was a huge discussion about
this on the rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup and I'm sure the general
concensus was that if you have a squirrely plane a little toe out helps
keep it straight. That was also what the article in COPA was saying
Drew





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