Dear Wayne ;
I have written several e-mails to you regarding your design of a Rebel flap handle...both to your "irishfield etc" address,...and through this list.....all with no reply....so I figured you didn't want to talk about it....maybe you were just "off line"
I'd really like to see some pictures & Diagrams if possible on your "Cessna style" flap actuator handle.
How much degrees UP do you recommend for cruising....and how much DOWN would you recommend as
a limit for the flap handle setting (this is NOT considering the added input from the aileron control)
I currently have 6 and 12 degrees of UP...but I never seem to use the 6 degree position....
I also have 5, 10 15 and 20 degrees of DOWN as the flap settings....but I only use 5 and 10
degree settings...(its too hard to get the handle any lower that 10 degrees anyway)
I noticed that there seems to be very little movement of the flaperons when I move the actuator handle whilst IN FLIGHT...(compared to what deflections they show while stationary and on the ground), and I suspect that this is partly due to the "slack" in the design ...which seems to be impossible to trim out...hence why I'd like to redesign the system for less "slack" and also for more leverage and positive movement.
One last question , if you could help me out :
Jim Stonier (Rebel 326) has fitted a SCOTT 3200 , and is very ecstatic about the improvement in
his Rebel.......
I have been given a very tired / worn out SCOTT 3400 tailwheel, and I need to purchase several parts and such (as well as reconstructing the well worn parts)....
I cannot find SCOTT anywhere in my listings.
Can you give me a Phone number / fax number or e-mail so I can contact them ?????
I need a parts list and an exploded diagram so I can make some sense of the bits I need.
Many Thanks
Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
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Flap Handle Design
-
Wayne G. O'Shea
Flap Handle Design
Rick, if I didn't want to share I would tell you right out, I wouldn't just ignore you!!!!
No, I don't have a part source for Scott tail wheel parts other than say Aircraft Spruce, and Jim is right, a "real" tailwheel makes a big difference to the handling of the aircraft. DO NOT use a one sided fork Maule style tail wheel, they are terrible! Aircraft Spruce's catalogue shows a exploded view of the 3200, but not the 3400. How are you going to mount the 3400 to your tail spring. Any I have seen are for tube mounting, not springs.
Your flaperon settings sound great. Don't push much more than the recommended 18* max down. I have about 23 but also have aluminum covered flaperons (complete with the 16 pound counterbalance penalty!) that are a little less likely to buckle in the centre if too much air pressure against them. 20* sounds good on yours.
As for cruise "reflex", when I only had 100 H.P. if very light I could use all 12* and when heavy only 6*. With 150 H.P. I can cruise with the full 12* reflex at gross+ weights. Adds about 5 to 7 MPH. Just do me, and especially YOU, a favour and make sure you still have sufficient roll movement left in the controls when your in full reflex, before you need to turn suddenly and find out that your control horns in the cabin are touching the rear wing carrythru and they don't move enough for avoidance maneuvers. I have found a few A/C that needed the strip of aluminum, that joins the double bulkheads, relieved a bit to clear the horns to allow movement when in reflex.
Some of the "less" movement in flight (compared to static movement) is the slop in the teleflex cable, but some of it is also the control horns flexing under flight load and makes them seem like automatic flaps that come down more and more, the more you slow down.
I made my floor mounted flap system because I too had the "must be like my Cessna 182 fever", as I was used to reaching down for the handle in my 1958 182A. 90+ hours of work to design, build and install my system (which is all solid push pull tubes, bellcranks, etc with no cables) and I now find that I like all the Rebels that I have been shipping out with the flap handle on the ceiling better (for ease of usage, not function), other than I don't like the idea of banging my head on it in an accident! I will see if I can get some pictures to send off to you with a short description of how it works, etc. when I get a brief moment of time.
Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
No, I don't have a part source for Scott tail wheel parts other than say Aircraft Spruce, and Jim is right, a "real" tailwheel makes a big difference to the handling of the aircraft. DO NOT use a one sided fork Maule style tail wheel, they are terrible! Aircraft Spruce's catalogue shows a exploded view of the 3200, but not the 3400. How are you going to mount the 3400 to your tail spring. Any I have seen are for tube mounting, not springs.
Your flaperon settings sound great. Don't push much more than the recommended 18* max down. I have about 23 but also have aluminum covered flaperons (complete with the 16 pound counterbalance penalty!) that are a little less likely to buckle in the centre if too much air pressure against them. 20* sounds good on yours.
As for cruise "reflex", when I only had 100 H.P. if very light I could use all 12* and when heavy only 6*. With 150 H.P. I can cruise with the full 12* reflex at gross+ weights. Adds about 5 to 7 MPH. Just do me, and especially YOU, a favour and make sure you still have sufficient roll movement left in the controls when your in full reflex, before you need to turn suddenly and find out that your control horns in the cabin are touching the rear wing carrythru and they don't move enough for avoidance maneuvers. I have found a few A/C that needed the strip of aluminum, that joins the double bulkheads, relieved a bit to clear the horns to allow movement when in reflex.
Some of the "less" movement in flight (compared to static movement) is the slop in the teleflex cable, but some of it is also the control horns flexing under flight load and makes them seem like automatic flaps that come down more and more, the more you slow down.
I made my floor mounted flap system because I too had the "must be like my Cessna 182 fever", as I was used to reaching down for the handle in my 1958 182A. 90+ hours of work to design, build and install my system (which is all solid push pull tubes, bellcranks, etc with no cables) and I now find that I like all the Rebels that I have been shipping out with the flap handle on the ceiling better (for ease of usage, not function), other than I don't like the idea of banging my head on it in an accident! I will see if I can get some pictures to send off to you with a short description of how it works, etc. when I get a brief moment of time.
Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Harper (rjwh@ozemail.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:10 AM
Subject: Flap Handle Design
Dear Wayne ;
I have written several e-mails to you regarding your design of a Rebel flap handle...both to your "irishfield etc" address,...and through this list.....all with no reply....so I figured you didn't want to talk about it....maybe you were just "off line"
I'd really like to see some pictures & Diagrams if possible on your "Cessna style" flap actuator handle.
How much degrees UP do you recommend for cruising....and how much DOWN would you recommend as
a limit for the flap handle setting (this is NOT considering the added input from the aileron control)
I currently have 6 and 12 degrees of UP...but I never seem to use the 6 degree position....
I also have 5, 10 15 and 20 degrees of DOWN as the flap settings....but I only use 5 and 10
degree settings...(its too hard to get the handle any lower that 10 degrees anyway)
I noticed that there seems to be very little movement of the flaperons when I move the actuator handle whilst IN FLIGHT...(compared to what deflections they show while stationary and on the ground), and I suspect that this is partly due to the "slack" in the design ...which seems to be impossible to trim out...hence why I'd like to redesign the system for less "slack" and also for more leverage and positive movement.
One last question , if you could help me out :
Jim Stonier (Rebel 326) has fitted a SCOTT 3200 , and is very ecstatic about the improvement in
his Rebel.......
I have been given a very tired / worn out SCOTT 3400 tailwheel, and I need to purchase several parts and such (as well as reconstructing the well worn parts)....
I cannot find SCOTT anywhere in my listings.
Can you give me a Phone number / fax number or e-mail so I can contact them ?????
I need a parts list and an exploded diagram so I can make some sense of the bits I need.
Many Thanks
Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
-
Rick Harper
Flap Handle Design
WOW ....That looks pretty damn sturdy !
Thanks for the note AND the diagram !!! :-)
Rick & Wendy
Thanks for the note AND the diagram !!! :-)
Rick & Wendy
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea (oifa@irishfield.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Thursday, 26 July 2001 8:54
Subject: Re: Flap Handle Design
Rick, if I didn't want to share I would tell you right out, I wouldn't just ignore you!!!!
No, I don't have a part source for Scott tail wheel parts other than say Aircraft Spruce, and Jim is right, a "real" tailwheel makes a big difference to the handling of the aircraft. DO NOT use a one sided fork Maule style tail wheel, they are terrible! Aircraft Spruce's catalogue shows a exploded view of the 3200, but not the 3400. How are you going to mount the 3400 to your tail spring. Any I have seen are for tube mounting, not springs.
Your flaperon settings sound great. Don't push much more than the recommended 18* max down. I have about 23 but also have aluminum covered flaperons (complete with the 16 pound counterbalance penalty!) that are a little less likely to buckle in the centre if too much air pressure against them. 20* sounds good on yours.
As for cruise "reflex", when I only had 100 H.P. if very light I could use all 12* and when heavy only 6*. With 150 H.P. I can cruise with the full 12* reflex at gross+ weights. Adds about 5 to 7 MPH. Just do me, and especially YOU, a favour and make sure you still have sufficient roll movement left in the controls when your in full reflex, before you need to turn suddenly and find out that your control horns in the cabin are touching the rear wing carrythru and they don't move enough for avoidance maneuvers. I have found a few A/C that needed the strip of aluminum, that joins the double bulkheads, relieved a bit to clear the horns to allow movement when in reflex.
Some of the "less" movement in flight (compared to static movement) is the slop in the teleflex cable, but some of it is also the control horns flexing under flight load and makes them seem like automatic flaps that come down more and more, the more you slow down.
I made my floor mounted flap system because I too had the "must be like my Cessna 182 fever", as I was used to reaching down for the handle in my 1958 182A. 90+ hours of work to design, build and install my system (which is all solid push pull tubes, bellcranks, etc with no cables) and I now find that I like all the Rebels that I have been shipping out with the flap handle on the ceiling better (for ease of usage, not function), other than I don't like the idea of banging my head on it in an accident! I will see if I can get some pictures to send off to you with a short description of how it works, etc. when I get a brief moment of time.
Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Harper (rjwh@ozemail.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:10 AM
Subject: Flap Handle Design
Dear Wayne ;
I have written several e-mails to you regarding your design of a Rebel flap handle...both to your "irishfield etc" address,...and through this list.....all with no reply....so I figured you didn't want to talk about it....maybe you were just "off line"
I'd really like to see some pictures & Diagrams if possible on your "Cessna style" flap actuator handle.
How much degrees UP do you recommend for cruising....and how much DOWN would you recommend as
a limit for the flap handle setting (this is NOT considering the added input from the aileron control)
I currently have 6 and 12 degrees of UP...but I never seem to use the 6 degree position....
I also have 5, 10 15 and 20 degrees of DOWN as the flap settings....but I only use 5 and 10
degree settings...(its too hard to get the handle any lower that 10 degrees anyway)
I noticed that there seems to be very little movement of the flaperons when I move the actuator handle whilst IN FLIGHT...(compared to what deflections they show while stationary and on the ground), and I suspect that this is partly due to the "slack" in the design ...which seems to be impossible to trim out...hence why I'd like to redesign the system for less "slack" and also for more leverage and positive movement.
One last question , if you could help me out :
Jim Stonier (Rebel 326) has fitted a SCOTT 3200 , and is very ecstatic about the improvement in
his Rebel.......
I have been given a very tired / worn out SCOTT 3400 tailwheel, and I need to purchase several parts and such (as well as reconstructing the well worn parts)....
I cannot find SCOTT anywhere in my listings.
Can you give me a Phone number / fax number or e-mail so I can contact them ?????
I need a parts list and an exploded diagram so I can make some sense of the bits I need.
Many Thanks
Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
-
Bob Patterson
Flap Handle Design
Hi Rick !
If you're having trouble pulling the flaps down, try slowing
down to 65 mph or slower before pulling. It's usually a LOT easier
to pull them down when you're flying slowly.... and the extra
flap does make landings shorter.
.....bobp
------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 07:10 PM 7/25/01 +1000, you wrote:
list.....all with no reply....so I figured you didn't want to talk about
it....maybe you were just "off line"
they show while stationary and on the ground), and I suspect that this is
partly due to the "slack" in the design ...which seems to be impossible to
trim out...hence why I'd like to redesign the system for less "slack" and
also for more leverage and positive movement.
parts)....
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If you're having trouble pulling the flaps down, try slowing
down to 65 mph or slower before pulling. It's usually a LOT easier
to pull them down when you're flying slowly.... and the extra
flap does make landings shorter.
.....bobp
------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 07:10 PM 7/25/01 +1000, you wrote:
handle...both to your "irishfield etc" address,...and through thisDear Wayne ;
I have written several e-mails to you regarding your design of a Rebel flap
list.....all with no reply....so I figured you didn't want to talk about
it....maybe you were just "off line"
style" flap actuator handle.I'd really like to see some pictures & Diagrams if possible on your "Cessna
would you recommend asHow much degrees UP do you recommend for cruising....and how much DOWN
input from the aileron control)a limit for the flap handle setting (this is NOT considering the added
degree position....I currently have 6 and 12 degrees of UP...but I never seem to use the 6
only use 5 and 10I also have 5, 10 15 and 20 degrees of DOWN as the flap settings....but I
anyway)degree settings...(its too hard to get the handle any lower that 10 degrees
I move the actuator handle whilst IN FLIGHT...(compared to what deflectionsI noticed that there seems to be very little movement of the flaperons when
they show while stationary and on the ground), and I suspect that this is
partly due to the "slack" in the design ...which seems to be impossible to
trim out...hence why I'd like to redesign the system for less "slack" and
also for more leverage and positive movement.
about the improvement inOne last question , if you could help me out :
Jim Stonier (Rebel 326) has fitted a SCOTT 3200 , and is very ecstatic
to purchase several parts and such (as well as reconstructing the well wornhis Rebel.......
I have been given a very tired / worn out SCOTT 3400 tailwheel, and I need
parts)....
?????I cannot find SCOTT anywhere in my listings.
Can you give me a Phone number / fax number or e-mail so I can contact them
bits I need.I need a parts list and an exploded diagram so I can make some sense of the
Many Thanks
Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
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