opt for the float attach fittings. However, there is was a safety issue
with the ones we received. The cap would bottom the screw threads in the
neck before the "O" ring would seal. In other words , it was impossible to
get a fuel / air tight seal. If a pressure check of the tank was made by
sealing the opening without the cap this would siphon fuel in flight and/or
allow water in. Murphy was made aware of this by email but did not reply.
We are using the flush caps as used on the Van's aircraft, which are
available from Aircraft Spruce. These use a flip top cap which cams over
center and expands an "O" ring to seal.
If you elect to use the marine caps be sure they do, in fact, seal.
As a related issue, Don Smith at Seal Pak tells me the adhesion promoter is
not needed when painting the brushable Pro Seal over a new layer of the
standard Pro Seal.
Ralph Baker
----------
the way to seal your tanks!From: murphy-rebel-d Digest <murphy-rebel-d@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel-d@dcsol.com
Subject: DIGEST - murphy-rebel-d
Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 2:58 PM
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA Subject RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is
(154.20.75.135)From: APAT@ISTAR.CA Subject Re: To Bob Patterson
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA Subject Re: Fw: wing tip wiring
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA Subject Re: Fuel tank
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA Subject Composite tailspring
From: LISAFLY99@AOL.COM Subject Re: Composite tailspring
From: WRAYT@SYMPATICO.CA Subject Re: Composite tailspring
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA Subject Re: Composite tailspring
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA Subject Re: Composite tailspring
From: LISAFLY99@AOL.COM Subject Re: Composite tailspring
----------
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:48:21 -0900
Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!
Hi Mike !
Ahhhh ! These ARE the same caps I have on Rebel #001 !! We
use a Twonie to open them ...
There should be a rubber "O" ring around the top of the caps -
and it does seal pretty well. I have had a problem with water getting
in only over the winter, and I do leave the caps a bit loose, because
the rubber ring tends to expand a bit, and dry out, so it can be a
real bear to open the caps. Perhaps there's a lube you could put on
the "O" ring to allow tightening completely.
As I mentioned, ours have had holes drilled beside the cap,
through the rubbery plastic support, into the tank. These are fitted
with inverted "J" tubes for venting (and these ARE very important !)
I guess you'd have to use maybe 1/4" or 5/16" tubing to be sure of
getting enough air flow. (ours are only 1/16" ID - enough for the
912 ...) The alternative would be to run inverted "J" tubes up
from the top of the sight guages, through the wing root fairings
on both sides - might be easier.
I wouldn't worry too much about the water leaking, as long
as the "O" rings are in good shape, AND - you ALWAYS check drain your
tanks before flying anyway ! (Also - fifteen minutes or so after
refuelling. I've had water pumped in from several airport tanks !)
I know of several different aircraft here with flush caps
where the owners put inverted plastic butter containers over the
fuel fillers, and secure them with small bungee cords or just
electrical tape, to keep water out. This can be a problem with
all flush caps, although I never had any water problems with the
flush caps on the Super Rebel. These are a higher quality metal
cap with a quarter-turn locking mechanism to seal against the
"O" ring.
.....bobp
whichAt 10:10 AM 2/24/01 -0900, you wrote:My caps are made for boats (says "Marine" on the package they came in).
They screw in and once they are in they are flush with the recepticle
Instead,only sticks up about a 1/4 inch. The cap has no handle or tab.
Thethere is a slot which requires something like a quarter to open/close.
pieceRenegade Spirit I used to own had a similar cap and I just cut a small
hang itof aluminum to fit in the slot, then drilled a hole in it so I could
quiteon my key chain.
After reading Wayne's comments on this topic, I am dismayed. He is
leakright. If the cap leaks air going out around the threads, it will also
capwater going in. What am I to do? Is it possible to retrofit a better
Ifin the wing I have already finished without having to open up the tank?
out.not, I guess I'll build a little house over the cap to keep the water
upMaybe set up a little garden, white picket fence,... Anything but open
seal.that fuel tank! Perhaps I can figure out some way to add an o-ring
holes inMike Kimball
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
APAT@ISTAR.CA
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:29 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!
Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
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(154.20.93.97)
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!
Hi Mike !
Not sure about the caps you have - ours are just a spin-on cap
like a car gas cap - tabs on the bottom to grab onto slots on the top of
the filler neck, which sticks up about an inch above the wing. Are yours
different ?
A tee off the top of the guages is a "Good Thing"(tm) - it
might be easier to have it poke up through the wing root fairing on
each side. Just to make it easier to get at, and to avoid fuel dribbling
down into the cockpit ...
I was just wondering if ANYONE can tell us what the latest
Super Rebel manuals say about venting.... ????
....bobp
---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 11:56 AM 2/23/01 -0900, you wrote:I'll have to look at the caps again. I don't remember seeing vent
aroundthe cap. I also don't remember finding a leak in the cap itself (i.e.,
where a vent hole would be if there was one). The leak I found was
acrossthe cap threads. I guess that's a form of venting. I haven't run
themention of venting the tanks in the manual anywhere, but I haven't read
teewhole manual yet. I was sort of planning on venting the tanks with a
localatthe top of the sight tube, vented cap or no vented cap.
Mike
-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------To: <MURPHY-REBEL@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: RE: Wow - PS 890 A-2 is the way to seal your tanks!
Hi Mike !
I'm not sure I'd want to trust Pro-Seal that had been thinned
with MEK - might change the flex properties over the long term ....
If your caps are the same as the standard ones for the Rebel,
they're SUPPOSED to be vented. I've always run a 1/16" drill through
the vent holes anyway, just to be sure. Is there another vent on
the Super somewhere ??
....bobp
-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------At 06:05 PM 2/22/01 -0900, you wrote:
that
tankthey
ain
the
rivet
Myandsupplied
the
inlookedtankbrushing
(154.20.75.135)----------
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: To Bob Patterson
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:54:06 -0900
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: To Bob Patterson
Hi Rick !
Sorry - my ISP has REALLY screwed up my email !! The old address
has been erratic for over 3 weeks, and they keep telling me it'll be OK
in a couple of days !!
In the mean time, they've given me a couple of new ones to use,
and one seems to be OK - for now, you can reach me at:
apat@istar.ca
.....bobp
----------------------------------orig.----------------------------
At 08:07 AM 2/27/01 +1100, you wrote:"undeliverable" !?!?Bob !
I tried to send you an e-mail last night ...and it came back asDo you have a new e-mail address ?
Rick & Wendy Harper
Rick & Wendy Harper
16 Tor rd, Dee Why,
N.S.W. 2099
Australia
rjwh@ozemail.com.au
rjwh56@hotmail.com
Ph : 02 9971 7889
Mbl : 0416 041 007
O'seas Ph : 612 9971 7889
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Bob !</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>I tried to send you an e-mail last night ...and it
?</EM></FONT></DIV>back as "undeliverable" !?!?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Do you have a new e-mail address
7889<BR>N.S.W.<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><EM>Rick & Wendy Harper</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT size=2>Rick & Wendy Harper<BR>16 Tor rd, Dee Why,2099<BR>Australia<BR><A
href="mailto:rjwh@ozemail.com.au">rjwh@ozemail.com.au</A><BR><A
href="mailto:rjwh56@hotmail.com">rjwh56@hotmail.com</A><BR>Ph : 02 9971
(154.20.75.135)----------<BR>Mbl : 0416 041 007<BR>O'seas Ph : 612 9971
7889<BR></FONT></EM></DIV></BODY></HTML>
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: Fw: wing tip wiring
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:02:57 -0900
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Fw: wing tip wiring
Hi Rebel 505 !
Many builders now run tubes through the wing, so that the wires
can be easily replaced if they should deteriorate years later. It also
makes it easy to add new wires later, if you add strobes, etc. Many
production aircraft use grommets & tie-wraps, forcing the owner to
have the wing opened just to replace wires ! Some early builders
used rigid PVC tube, but lately, many have found the clear flex
tubing much easier to install. The plastic is considered safer
than aluminum, because the wires are less likely to rub through
and short out on it.
You are absolutely going the right way, by running your wires
down inside the strut, along with the pitot tubing. This makes everything
MUCH easier and tidier to connect to the panel !
Just suggestions ........ ;-)
.....bobp
--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At , you wrote:At 10:05 PM 2/26/01 -0700, you wrote:----- Original Message -----
From: carol51
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com.Sales.Department
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:01 PM
Subject: wing tip wirring
Hello from Calgary
I drilled holes in the tip ribs and installed rubber grommets to pull
runwires for wing tip lights through. Is this looking for trouble. Should I
title=carol51@attcanada.ca>carol51</A>aluminum tube or plastic hose to feed my wire through. The wire will run
down the strut, not straight through to the fuselodge.All comments will be appreciated,
REBEL 505
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:carol51@attcanada.ca"
href="mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com.Sales.Department"</DIV><DIV><B>To:</B> <A
trouble..Department</A>grommets</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 26, 2001 10:01 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> wing tip wirring</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Hello from Calgary</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I drilled holes in the tip ribs and installed rubberto pull my wires for wing tip lights through. Is this looking for
wireShould I run aluminum tube or plastic hose to feed my wire through. The
fuselodge.</FONT></DIV>will run down the strut, not straight through to the
(154.20.75.135)----------<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>All comments will be appreciated,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>REBEL 505</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: Fuel tank
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:13:59 -0900
Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank
Well - - I'm still having problems with my stupid ISP, and
CAN'T connect with LINUX <AT ALL> !!! So I've fallen back to
an old box with WinDoze 3.11, and Netscape 3.0 - works well on
many sites (at least, the thoughtful ones).
I can get onto the new dcsol site, and read archives, etc.,
but I DO get scattered .jpg icons over the text in places, and other
little anomalies. Part of this is because I run with Java and JavaScript
turned OFF - I really don't need flash & dazzle, OR viruses !!
Just a real old stick in the mud, I guess - still like plain
text interfaces. (Still do lots of work in FoxPro (NOT <visual>) !!)
Sorry - still haven't completely chilled ! Get tired of
fighting the M$ machine - but their days are numbered .... I think
even Bill G. realizes it's all downhill from here !! Thank goodness !!
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 11:01 PM 2/27/01 -0900, you wrote:Gosh Bob... even Netscape on Linux will view these pages. That is if
safeat least running a version that's newer than that Lycosaurus technology
you're flying behind!
Sorry, but figured you've had a few days to cool off, so it should be
whoto pick on you a little.
By the way, I hope you noticed that the new archive site still supports
dinosaurs like you, while also offering truly usable features to those
thatare even close to keeping up with the times. :-)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <APAT@ISTAR.CA>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Fuel tank
Thanks Roger, but THIS is one of those stupid, arrogant web sites
greatest"won't even let you see the pages unless you have the "latest &
victims,web browser !!
I don't understand people who want the public to visit their
sites, then make it impossible !! Usually, they are Micro$oft
!who are so brainwashed they think M$ is the only O/S and browser mfg.
in the world !!
Sorry for the tirade - I've just had a day full of these idiots
----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------......bobp
followingclipsAt 02:41 AM 2/24/01 GMT, you wrote:
I
(EST)D_Community=N
cutouts
fitandpast the
(154.20.75.135)----------by
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Composite tailspring
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:25:59 -0900
Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
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To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Composite tailspring
Help !!
Is there anyone in Southern Ontario who has a composite
tailspring who'd like to trade me for a metal one ??? We had a
really heavy wind storm here last week, and the composite spring
on my Rebel was sheared off right behind the tail strut supports.
This was one of the middle batch of springs, and was VERY
poor quality - mostly epoxy, with little glass, 'way too thick
in the middle, etc., but I made it fit. I'd still prefer to use
a composite spring on this Rebel, as it's a very light 912-powered
version, and the metal spring just wouldn't bend AT ALL on it !!
Hope someone has one of these composite springs, so I can
get the Rebel up out of the grass quickly !
Thanks !!
.....bobp
----------
From: LISAFLY99@AOL.COM
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: Composite tailspring
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:32:42 -0900
--part1_29.111996b4.27ce9e4a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/28/01 12:26:51 PM Central Standard Time,
have towrites:
BOB
Hope someone has one of these composite springs, so I can
get the Rebel up out of the grass quickly !
Thanks !!
.....bobp
I have a composit spring I was going to replace with a metal one. I'd
runpull it off of N414D and work out shipping I live in the states. Got to
12:26:51 PM Central Standard Time, APAT@ISTAR.CAto the dentist but will check E-mail as soon as I get back for response.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D
--part1_29.111996b4.27ce9e4a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/28/01
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
these composite springs, so I can<BR>
<BR> Hope someone has one of
&nbs<BR>get the Rebel up out of the grass quickly !
<BR>
<BR>
p; &n
bsp;
&n
&nbsbsp; Thanks !!
<BR>
<BR>
p; &n
bsp;
&n
bsp;
....bobp
have to<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>BOB
<BR>I have a composit spring I was going to replace with a metal one. I'd
to run<BR>pull it off of N414D and work out shipping I live in the states. Got
response.<BR>to the dentist but will check E-mail as soon as I get back for
...Wray<BR>Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D</FONT></HTML>
--part1_29.111996b4.27ce9e4a_boundary--
----------
From: WRAYT@SYMPATICO.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: Composite tailspring
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:47:05 -0900
Bob give me a call. I think I have what you want. Willing to horse trade.
(154.20.75.135)APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote:
--To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Composite tailspring
Help !!
Is there anyone in Southern Ontario who has a composite
tailspring who'd like to trade me for a metal one ??? We had a
really heavy wind storm here last week, and the composite spring
on my Rebel was sheared off right behind the tail strut supports.
This was one of the middle batch of springs, and was VERY
poor quality - mostly epoxy, with little glass, 'way too thick
in the middle, etc., but I made it fit. I'd still prefer to use
a composite spring on this Rebel, as it's a very light 912-powered
version, and the metal spring just wouldn't bend AT ALL on it !!
Hope someone has one of these composite springs, so I can
get the Rebel up out of the grass quickly !
Thanks !!
.....bobp
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664
----------
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: Composite tailspring
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:11:36 -0900
Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
by dcsol.com (wcSMTP v5.4.449.1)
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Composite tailspring
Thanks Phil ! It looks like there are a few nearby, so we
don't have to wrestle with customs, etc..... Appreciate the offer,
though !
I really LIKE the composite springs, so, unless you're having
problems, I wouldn't rush to change it. They seem to be a bit kinder
to the tailsection ... ;-)
.....bobp
------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 01:32 PM 2/28/01 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 2/28/01 12:26:51 PM Central Standard Time,
have towrites:
BOB
Hope someone has one of these composite springs, so I can
get the Rebel up out of the grass quickly !
Thanks !!
.....bobp
I have a composit spring I was going to replace with a metal one. I'd
runpull it off of N414D and work out shipping I live in the states. Got to
2/28/01to the dentist but will check E-mail as soon as I get back for response.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated
&nbs12:26:51 PM Central Standard Time, APAT@ISTAR.CAMARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;these composite springs, so I can<BR>
<BR> Hope someone has one of<BR>get the Rebel up out of the grass quickly !
<BR>
<BR>
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs Thanks !!
<BR>
<BR>
p; &n
bsp;
&n
bsp;  
I'd;.....bobp<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>BOB
<BR>I have a composit spring I was going to replace with a metal one.
tohave to<BR>pull it off of N414D and work out shipping I live in the states. Got
response.run<BR>to the dentist but will check E-mail as soon as I get back for
(154.20.75.135)----------<BR>Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D</FONT></HTML>
From: APAT@ISTAR.CA
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: Composite tailspring
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:12:26 -0900
Received: from smtp.interlog.com ([154.11.89.176])
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Composite tailspring
Thanks Wray ! Will give you a call a bit later .....
.....bobp
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At 01:47 PM 2/28/01 -0800, you wrote:Bob give me a call. I think I have what you want. Willing to horse
APAT@ISTAR.CA...Wray----------APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote:
--To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Subject: Composite tailspring
Help !!
Is there anyone in Southern Ontario who has a composite
tailspring who'd like to trade me for a metal one ??? We had a
really heavy wind storm here last week, and the composite spring
on my Rebel was sheared off right behind the tail strut supports.
This was one of the middle batch of springs, and was VERY
poor quality - mostly epoxy, with little glass, 'way too thick
in the middle, etc., but I made it fit. I'd still prefer to use
a composite spring on this Rebel, as it's a very light 912-powered
version, and the metal spring just wouldn't bend AT ALL on it !!
Hope someone has one of these composite springs, so I can
get the Rebel up out of the grass quickly !
Thanks !!
.....bobp
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664
From: LISAFLY99@AOL.COM
To: MURPHY-REBEL
Subject: Re: Composite tailspring
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:57:41 -0900
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In a message dated 2/28/01 1:13:01 PM Central Standard Time,
have awrites:
BOBI really LIKE the composite springs, so, unless you're having
problems, I wouldn't rush to change it. They seem to be a bit kinder
to the tailsection ... ;-)
.....bobp
Thats my thought also, thats the reason it's still on there. But I do
metal spring on hand to do a change out. You were a good excuse to get it
1:13:01 PM Central Standard Time, APAT@ISTAR.CAdone.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/28/01
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I really LIKE the<BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
composite springs, so, unless you're having
&nbs<BR>problems, I wouldn't rush to change it. They seem to be a bit kinder
<BR>to the tailsection ... ;-)
<BR>
<BR>
p; &n
bsp;
&n
have absp; .....bobp
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>BOB
<BR>Thats my thought also, thats the reason it's still on there. But I do
get it<BR>metal spring on hand to do a change out. You were a good excuse to
<BR>done.
<BR>Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D</FONT></HTML>
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