[rebel-builders] Elite AIL-403

[David A. Ricker]

Hi Korey

Good to see you're plugging away at it.

OK, AIL-403. I'd suggest that you use the existing parts as templates
and fab new ones, it's not that bad a job and don't ask how I know! If
I recall I used the flap/AIL skin as a back drill template for the rivet
holes before it was wrapped around the structure, that worked out fine.

Welding those parts would take away any temper they have (T6->T0) so the
designed in strength would no longer be there. It's hard to tell if
Murphy used them in the strength calculations and I don't think you'd
have any luck in getting an answer to that either. Sheet metal crews
would not be an option, they'd just work loose. Nut plates & flat
headed screws might be an option but personally I'd rather re-make the
parts than mess with them.

There you go, one opinion to put on the pile ;-)

Dave
Elite 583


On 3/21/2011 1:56 PM, flex@dcsol.com wrote:

I read the list postings every day, but don't post a whole lot. Keep talking
guys... you're more of a help to folks like me than you're probably aware!
Thanks!

Working the flaps and ailerons on Elite #678. The previous builder drilled an
extra row of holes through all four AIL-403's (where the instructions say "do
not drill these holes). The easiest thing to do would be to just dimple and
rivet (during final install) all the holes, but then if I ever have to take the
covers off it's almost twice the rivets to drill out.

My question is: what do you guys think of brazing these pieces to fill the
holes? It will eventually be painted, so I'm not concerned about a slight
discoloration. A slight weakening of the AIL-403 due to heat shouldn't be a
problem, I would think.

Alternatively, what do you think about just leaving the holes and using
sheetmetal screws instead of rivets in all the holes?

Thanks!
~Kory "Flex" Klismith
Tucson, AZ
#678E



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[flex]

Thanks, Dave. I'll have to think about it some more. Welding/Brazing is going
to be out. You're absolutely right about not knowing if this is considered
structural. I could assume... but then I could be wrong, and why take a
chance.

Making a new one shouldn't be too bad except that using the skin as a guide
for back-drilling is out since the previous builder has already riveted both
flaps and ailerons half-way.

I guess with all the holes already match-drilled (just with an extra row), I
may just end up puting rivets in all the holes. I feel quite confident that this
would not compromise the structure. I'm concerned that if I try to fab new
pieces using the already partially-finished flaps/ailerons I'll end up making
some of the rib holes too large or odd shaped.

Any other thoughts?
~Kory

On 3/21/2011 4:59 PM, daricker@ns.sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi Korey
->
-> Good to see you're plugging away at it.
->
-> OK, AIL-403. I'd suggest that you use the existing parts as templates
-> and fab new ones, it's not that bad a job and don't ask how I know! If
-> I recall I used the flap/AIL skin as a back drill template for the rivet
-> holes before it was wrapped around the structure, that worked out fine.
->
-> Welding those parts would take away any temper they have (T6->T0) so
the
-> designed in strength would no longer be there. It's hard to tell if
-> Murphy used them in the strength calculations and I don't think you'd
-> have any luck in getting an answer to that either. Sheet metal crews
-> would not be an option, they'd just work loose. Nut plates & flat
-> headed screws might be an option but personally I'd rather re-make the
-> parts than mess with them.
->
-> There you go, one opinion to put on the pile ;-)
->
-> Dave
-> Elite 583




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[David A. Ricker]

Like you said, you could simply rivet the existing AIL-403s using both
rows of rivets, it'd just be a bit stronger, no big deal.

If you wanted to transfer the hole pattern to a new part though you
could use a thin sheet of plastic, like an overhead transparency sheet.

Cheers,

Dave

On 3/23/2011 12:31 AM, flex@dcsol.com wrote:

Thanks, Dave. I'll have to think about it some more. Welding/Brazing is going
to be out. You're absolutely right about not knowing if this is considered
structural. I could assume... but then I could be wrong, and why take a
chance.

Making a new one shouldn't be too bad except that using the skin as a guide
for back-drilling is out since the previous builder has already riveted both
flaps and ailerons half-way.

I guess with all the holes already match-drilled (just with an extra row), I
may just end up puting rivets in all the holes. I feel quite confident that this
would not compromise the structure. I'm concerned that if I try to fab new
pieces using the already partially-finished flaps/ailerons I'll end up making
some of the rib holes too large or odd shaped.

Any other thoughts?
~Kory

On 3/21/2011 4:59 PM,daricker@ns.sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Hi Korey
->
-> Good to see you're plugging away at it.
->
-> OK, AIL-403. I'd suggest that you use the existing parts as templates
-> and fab new ones, it's not that bad a job and don't ask how I know! If
-> I recall I used the flap/AIL skin as a back drill template for the rivet
-> holes before it was wrapped around the structure, that worked out fine.
->
-> Welding those parts would take away any temper they have (T6->T0) so
the
-> designed in strength would no longer be there. It's hard to tell if
-> Murphy used them in the strength calculations and I don't think you'd
-> have any luck in getting an answer to that either. Sheet metal crews
-> would not be an option, they'd just work loose. Nut plates& flat
-> headed screws might be an option but personally I'd rather re-make the
-> parts than mess with them.
->
-> There you go, one opinion to put on the pile ;-)
->
-> Dave
-> Elite 583




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