[rebel-builders] C.G.

[Walter Klatt]

Don't know where the 12 came from, but I think this is still the latest
recommendation from MAM.
http://www.pattersonaerosales.com/Aircr ... ulletin.pd
f

My empty c of g is 10.7, but that goes up with fuel, passenger, baggage,
when flying, so no problem at all for me (on amphibs).

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:34 AM
To: Builders list
Subject: [rebel-builders] C.G.


There is a discrepancy between the construction manual and the fight manual
I have on cd: Construction man. says 12" to 19.7" but doesn't say where the
datum is, and the flight man. says 10.85" to 18.1" measured from wing LE.
Can anyone clarify?
Thanks
Jesse




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[Ron Shannon]

Unless you're already very familiar with the Rebel, I'd strongly recommend
loading for a first flight CG of no less than 12.5", preferably 13" or more.
In 254R, even with half tanks, that requires 40+ lbs. in baggage, and that's
with a relatively light engine & 11 lb. prop. A 13" CG gives you at least a
little bit margin for any possible lack of elevator authority you may find
in your initial elevator deflection setup.

Also, before flying be sure to actually measure the length of the arm (belly
button position) of the real pilot, sitting in the seat where he will want
it during first flight. I wanted the see rather far forward, and made the
mistake of relying on the sample manual's suggestion (15" as I recall) which
turned out to be long by almost 3". I had used the 15" from the sample
manual when I was in a hurry to come up with a first flight W&B config. for
the FAA paperwork, and forgot to actually measure it, until later. Wrong.

Ron


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca> wrote:

Don't know where the 12 came from, but I think this is still the latest
recommendation from MAM.

http://www.pattersonaerosales.com/Aircr ... ulletin.pd
f

My empty c of g is 10.7, but that goes up with fuel, passenger, baggage,
when flying, so no problem at all for me (on amphibs).

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:34 AM
To: Builders list
Subject: [rebel-builders] C.G.


There is a discrepancy between the construction manual and the fight manual
I have on cd: Construction man. says 12" to 19.7" but doesn't say where the
datum is, and the flight man. says 10.85" to 18.1" measured from wing LE.
Can anyone clarify?
Thanks
Jesse

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[Jesse Jenks]

Thanks for the help guys, I guess I'll go with what the service bulletin says and that matches with the POH. Bob, the 12" is right out of the construction manual in the weight and balance section. I don't know what they were smokin when they wrote that thing, but it must have been good.

From: rshannon@cruzcom.com
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 10:36:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] C.G.
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Unless you're already very familiar with the Rebel, I'd strongly recommend
loading for a first flight CG of no less than 12.5", preferably 13" or more.
In 254R, even with half tanks, that requires 40+ lbs. in baggage, and that's
with a relatively light engine & 11 lb. prop. A 13" CG gives you at least a
little bit margin for any possible lack of elevator authority you may find
in your initial elevator deflection setup.

Also, before flying be sure to actually measure the length of the arm (belly
button position) of the real pilot, sitting in the seat where he will want
it during first flight. I wanted the see rather far forward, and made the
mistake of relying on the sample manual's suggestion (15" as I recall) which
turned out to be long by almost 3". I had used the 15" from the sample
manual when I was in a hurry to come up with a first flight W&B config. for
the FAA paperwork, and forgot to actually measure it, until later. Wrong.

Ron


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca> wrote:

Don't know where the 12 came from, but I think this is still the latest
recommendation from MAM.

http://www.pattersonaerosales.com/Aircr ... ulletin.pd
f

My empty c of g is 10.7, but that goes up with fuel, passenger, baggage,
when flying, so no problem at all for me (on amphibs).

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:34 AM
To: Builders list
Subject: [rebel-builders] C.G.


There is a discrepancy between the construction manual and the fight manual
I have on cd: Construction man. says 12" to 19.7" but doesn't say where the
datum is, and the flight man. says 10.85" to 18.1" measured from wing LE.
Can anyone clarify?
Thanks
Jesse

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

They grow some good stuff in the hills of Chilliwack! LOL

Original EMPTY C of G range was 7.7 to 19.7" aft of datum. (leading
edge/front edge of gear leg) and I continue to use it. Everything you put in
the airplane moves the C of G back. Yes optimal flight is in the 12 to 15"
range, but don't let that confuse the empty C of G limits for the wing.

Even with Bobp's XWI..... it went out of here with an empty C of G of 8.16"
aft of datum, with firewall in original positon, O-320 and Sensenich Prop. I
could still land the thing on it's tailwheel with the mains 2 or 3 feet in
the air. Solo.. with no baggage what so ever and only 15 gallons of fuel on
board.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: "Builders list" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] C.G.

Thanks for the help guys, I guess I'll go with what the service bulletin
says and that matches with the POH. Bob, the 12" is right out of the
construction manual in the weight and balance section. I don't know what
they were smokin when they wrote that thing, but it must have been good.

From: rshannon@cruzcom.com
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 10:36:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] C.G.
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Unless you're already very familiar with the Rebel, I'd strongly
recommend
loading for a first flight CG of no less than 12.5", preferably 13" or
more.
In 254R, even with half tanks, that requires 40+ lbs. in baggage, and
that's
with a relatively light engine & 11 lb. prop. A 13" CG gives you at least
a
little bit margin for any possible lack of elevator authority you may
find
in your initial elevator deflection setup.

Also, before flying be sure to actually measure the length of the arm
(belly
button position) of the real pilot, sitting in the seat where he will
want
it during first flight. I wanted the see rather far forward, and made the
mistake of relying on the sample manual's suggestion (15" as I recall)
which
turned out to be long by almost 3". I had used the 15" from the sample
manual when I was in a hurry to come up with a first flight W&B config.
for
the FAA paperwork, and forgot to actually measure it, until later. Wrong.

Ron


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
wrote:

Don't know where the 12 came from, but I think this is still the latest
recommendation from MAM.

http://www.pattersonaerosales.com/Aircr ... ulletin.pd
f

My empty c of g is 10.7, but that goes up with fuel, passenger,
baggage,
when flying, so no problem at all for me (on amphibs).

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:34 AM
To: Builders list
Subject: [rebel-builders] C.G.


There is a discrepancy between the construction manual and the fight
manual
I have on cd: Construction man. says 12" to 19.7" but doesn't say where
the
datum is, and the flight man. says 10.85" to 18.1" measured from wing
LE.
Can anyone clarify?
Thanks
Jesse

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[Jesse Jenks]

So I hear.
All good info Wayne, but what I was trying to nail down are the loaded CG limits which the flight manual I have on pdf lists as 10.85" to 18.1". As you say, who cares (within reason of course) what the empty cg is as long as you load the plane to get the CG within limits. There are no empty CG limits are there?
I have an 0-320 and metal prop with original firewall location and tail mounted battery, so hopefully my empty CG will not be too forward, but as you say, everything you load in moves CG back, so it seems to me that with such a large baggage area volume to carry all my gear that starting with an empty CG that is a bit far forward is a good thing from a load hauling perspective.
Airworthiness inspection scheduled for next weekend and I still have quite a bit to do...
Thanks.
Jesse

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] C.G.
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 16:07:32 -0500

They grow some good stuff in the hills of Chilliwack! LOL

Original EMPTY C of G range was 7.7 to 19.7" aft of datum. (leading
edge/front edge of gear leg) and I continue to use it. Everything you put in
the airplane moves the C of G back. Yes optimal flight is in the 12 to 15"
range, but don't let that confuse the empty C of G limits for the wing.

Even with Bobp's XWI..... it went out of here with an empty C of G of 8.16"
aft of datum, with firewall in original positon, O-320 and Sensenich Prop. I
could still land the thing on it's tailwheel with the mains 2 or 3 feet in
the air. Solo.. with no baggage what so ever and only 15 gallons of fuel on
board.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: "Builders list" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] C.G.

Thanks for the help guys, I guess I'll go with what the service bulletin
says and that matches with the POH. Bob, the 12" is right out of the
construction manual in the weight and balance section. I don't know what
they were smokin when they wrote that thing, but it must have been good.

From: rshannon@cruzcom.com
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 10:36:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] C.G.
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Unless you're already very familiar with the Rebel, I'd strongly
recommend
loading for a first flight CG of no less than 12.5", preferably 13" or
more.
In 254R, even with half tanks, that requires 40+ lbs. in baggage, and
that's
with a relatively light engine & 11 lb. prop. A 13" CG gives you at least
a
little bit margin for any possible lack of elevator authority you may
find
in your initial elevator deflection setup.

Also, before flying be sure to actually measure the length of the arm
(belly
button position) of the real pilot, sitting in the seat where he will
want
it during first flight. I wanted the see rather far forward, and made the
mistake of relying on the sample manual's suggestion (15" as I recall)
which
turned out to be long by almost 3". I had used the 15" from the sample
manual when I was in a hurry to come up with a first flight W&B config.
for
the FAA paperwork, and forgot to actually measure it, until later. Wrong.

Ron


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
wrote:


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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

All I can tell you Jesse, if you plan to go to amphibs at any point and do
some serious cross country and back lake fishing etc... it is relatively
easy to get carried away with items being stuffed into the airplane where
it's so far aft c of g that it won't roll up on the step.. even with full
fwd stick! So starting nose heavy isn't a bad thing when it comes to that
type of flying. I'll hazard a guess that yours is going to come out at ~ 9"
to 9.7" aft of datum on wheels.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: "Builders list" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] C.G.

So I hear.
All good info Wayne, but what I was trying to nail down are the loaded CG
limits which the flight manual I have on pdf lists as 10.85" to 18.1". As
you say, who cares (within reason of course) what the empty cg is as long
as you load the plane to get the CG within limits. There are no empty CG
limits are there?
I have an 0-320 and metal prop with original firewall location and tail
mounted battery, so hopefully my empty CG will not be too forward, but as
you say, everything you load in moves CG back, so it seems to me that with
such a large baggage area volume to carry all my gear that starting with
an empty CG that is a bit far forward is a good thing from a load hauling
perspective.
Airworthiness inspection scheduled for next weekend and I still have quite
a bit to do...
Thanks.
Jesse

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] C.G.
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 16:07:32 -0500

They grow some good stuff in the hills of Chilliwack! LOL

Original EMPTY C of G range was 7.7 to 19.7" aft of datum. (leading
edge/front edge of gear leg) and I continue to use it. Everything you put
in
the airplane moves the C of G back. Yes optimal flight is in the 12 to
15"
range, but don't let that confuse the empty C of G limits for the wing.

Even with Bobp's XWI..... it went out of here with an empty C of G of
8.16"
aft of datum, with firewall in original positon, O-320 and Sensenich
Prop. I
could still land the thing on it's tailwheel with the mains 2 or 3 feet
in
the air. Solo.. with no baggage what so ever and only 15 gallons of fuel
on
board.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: "Builders list" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] C.G.

Thanks for the help guys, I guess I'll go with what the service
bulletin
says and that matches with the POH. Bob, the 12" is right out of the
construction manual in the weight and balance section. I don't know
what
they were smokin when they wrote that thing, but it must have been
good.


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[Jesse Jenks]

I forgot to mention the big a$$ tailwheel I have as well so that may throw of your prediction a bit, we'll see on Thursday when I get weighed...but that is exactly the kind of flying I want to be doing, the amphib stuff that is.

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] C.G.
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:20:19 -0500

All I can tell you Jesse, if you plan to go to amphibs at any point and do
some serious cross country and back lake fishing etc... it is relatively
easy to get carried away with items being stuffed into the airplane where
it's so far aft c of g that it won't roll up on the step.. even with full
fwd stick! So starting nose heavy isn't a bad thing when it comes to that
type of flying. I'll hazard a guess that yours is going to come out at ~ 9"
to 9.7" aft of datum on wheels.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: "Builders list" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] C.G.

So I hear.
All good info Wayne, but what I was trying to nail down are the loaded CG
limits which the flight manual I have on pdf lists as 10.85" to 18.1". As
you say, who cares (within reason of course) what the empty cg is as long
as you load the plane to get the CG within limits. There are no empty CG
limits are there?
I have an 0-320 and metal prop with original firewall location and tail
mounted battery, so hopefully my empty CG will not be too forward, but as
you say, everything you load in moves CG back, so it seems to me that with
such a large baggage area volume to carry all my gear that starting with
an empty CG that is a bit far forward is a good thing from a load hauling
perspective.
Airworthiness inspection scheduled for next weekend and I still have quite
a bit to do...
Thanks.
Jesse

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] C.G.
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 16:07:32 -0500

They grow some good stuff in the hills of Chilliwack! LOL

Original EMPTY C of G range was 7.7 to 19.7" aft of datum. (leading
edge/front edge of gear leg) and I continue to use it. Everything you put
in
the airplane moves the C of G back. Yes optimal flight is in the 12 to
15"
range, but don't let that confuse the empty C of G limits for the wing.

Even with Bobp's XWI..... it went out of here with an empty C of G of
8.16"
aft of datum, with firewall in original positon, O-320 and Sensenich
Prop. I
could still land the thing on it's tailwheel with the mains 2 or 3 feet
in
the air. Solo.. with no baggage what so ever and only 15 gallons of fuel
on
board.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Jenks" <jessejenks@hotmail.com>
To: "Builders list" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] C.G.



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