[rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26

[Drew Dalgleish]

I had to replace the skin under the door with .032 and the doorsill with
about .040 after I made wrinkles in both sides during 2 different hard
landing events while on wheels. I also replaced the glareshield with .032
because it wrinkled at the corners of the panel. I also added doublers at
the panel corners after the fact but I believe if you did it while building
that is all that would be needed.

At 06:38 PM 04/01/2011 -0800, you wrote:

I have some questions about the door area on the Rebel. I am just starting

on my interior fittings and flooring. Looking through the pictures and
archives it is evident that the fus 25 area needs thicker skin and doorsill.

Is it necessary to replace fus 26 as well? How many have failed in the

door area? Were they on wheels or floats? Since there are several hundred
rivets to drill out on each side to replace fus 26 as well as the lower
angle I do not want to replace them if it is not necessary but will if it
is. What is the best thickness to use? My goal is to keep moving forward
but seem to keep having to undo the original to beef it up.

If you guys could give me some good advice from your experience I would

appreciate it greatly.

Thanks,
Curtis
175R



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Drew



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[Curtis Langholz]

Drew,
Thank You for the information. I originally doubled the lower doorsill area but replacing the whole lower and angled doorsill with .032 as well as both skins would be much stronger.
I thought of making the doorsill on the outside about 2" deeper with an L to reach where the bulkheads have the notch in them just below the doorsill to strengthen that area. Do you think that is an overkill?
I did the 3" mod to the boot cowl. On the lower panel supports I had to make .032 corner braces to rivet the panel supports to since the angle of the side panels was shallower. Putting upper corner doublers is great advice! The glareshield is cut back and riveted in place with an extention for the windshield, the panel is only clecoe'd in place right now. I will make some doublers for the corners.
Also I noticed in the plans there is nothing about a doubler at the strut attach area where it goes through the skins. Shouldn't this have a doubler?

Thanks again,
Curtis

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:38:07 -0500
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26

I had to replace the skin under the door with .032 and the doorsill with
about .040 after I made wrinkles in both sides during 2 different hard
landing events while on wheels. I also replaced the glareshield with .032
because it wrinkled at the corners of the panel. I also added doublers at
the panel corners after the fact but I believe if you did it while building
that is all that would be needed.

At 06:38 PM 04/01/2011 -0800, you wrote:

I have some questions about the door area on the Rebel. I am just starting

on my interior fittings and flooring. Looking through the pictures and
archives it is evident that the fus 25 area needs thicker skin and doorsill.

Is it necessary to replace fus 26 as well? How many have failed in the

door area? Were they on wheels or floats? Since there are several hundred
rivets to drill out on each side to replace fus 26 as well as the lower
angle I do not want to replace them if it is not necessary but will if it
is. What is the best thickness to use? My goal is to keep moving forward
but seem to keep having to undo the original to beef it up.

If you guys could give me some good advice from your experience I would

appreciate it greatly.

Thanks,
Curtis
175R



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Drew



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Curtis !

One of the Ontario mods. is to replace the ST-31 door frames
with ST-28 (.025), and another is to replace FUS-25 & 26 with
.032 or .040, plus add an extra vertical channel or 2 behind them -
either ST-31 or pieces of wing stringer.

Some builders have just overlayed a second FUS-25 & 26 over
the originals, slathering lots of epoxy primer in between. You
can do this if you drill oversize holes to clear the existing rivets,
then add new ones in between for the second layer.

The important one is the FUS-30 doubler for the lower
aft fuselage - pics in the Archives.... A lot easier to do these
while building....

--

......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson


Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.


On January 4, 2011 09:38:20 pm Curtis Langholz wrote:

I have some questions about the door area on the Rebel. I am just starting
on my interior fittings and flooring. Looking through the pictures and
archives it is evident that the fus 25 area needs thicker skin and
doorsill. Is it necessary to replace fus 26 as well? How many have failed
in the door area? Were they on wheels or floats? Since there are several
hundred rivets to drill out on each side to replace fus 26 as well as the
lower angle I do not want to replace them if it is not necessary but will
if it is. What is the best thickness to use? My goal is to keep moving
forward but seem to keep having to undo the original to beef it up. If you
guys could give me some good advice from your experience I would
appreciate it greatly.

Thanks,
Curtis
175R

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[Curtis Langholz]

Bob,

I purchased some .025 & .032 6061-T6 from ACS for the mods. I do not have any ST-28 or ST-31 channel left so was planning on making my own out of .032 for the doorsills.
For the FUS-30 doubler my plan was to only have to drill out the rivets in the FUS-36 bulkhead and the vertical stabilizer. The top row of rivets in the FUS-30 are countersunk so I plan on leaving those in place and drill new holes for the doubler between them so everything will stay in place.
You are right about it being easier to do while building. It is 3 times the work doing it over, plus it really slows the building process down!
If these areas have problems why is it that Murphy does not have any of these mods on their Tech Support page?

Thank You for the information.

Curtis

From: bobp@prosumers.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:10:45 -0500


Hi Curtis !

One of the Ontario mods. is to replace the ST-31 door frames
with ST-28 (.025), and another is to replace FUS-25 & 26 with
.032 or .040, plus add an extra vertical channel or 2 behind them -
either ST-31 or pieces of wing stringer.

Some builders have just overlayed a second FUS-25 & 26 over
the originals, slathering lots of epoxy primer in between. You
can do this if you drill oversize holes to clear the existing rivets,
then add new ones in between for the second layer.

The important one is the FUS-30 doubler for the lower
aft fuselage - pics in the Archives.... A lot easier to do these
while building....

--

......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson


Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.


On January 4, 2011 09:38:20 pm Curtis Langholz wrote:

I have some questions about the door area on the Rebel. I am just starting
on my interior fittings and flooring. Looking through the pictures and
archives it is evident that the fus 25 area needs thicker skin and
doorsill. Is it necessary to replace fus 26 as well? How many have failed
in the door area? Were they on wheels or floats? Since there are several
hundred rivets to drill out on each side to replace fus 26 as well as the
lower angle I do not want to replace them if it is not necessary but will
if it is. What is the best thickness to use? My goal is to keep moving
forward but seem to keep having to undo the original to beef it up. If you
guys could give me some good advice from your experience I would
appreciate it greatly.

Thanks,
Curtis
175R

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[snowyrvr]

Hi Curtis,

I made my FUS 26 out of .040 and bent a corner into it as you described, riveting it onto the floor on the underside. I think the bend will give it strength and it also looks cleaner than the corner piece the manual calls for. .040 might be overkill but I also have the gull wing door angle there so I just made it all one piece. Here's the web address for this photo on my site if you want to take a look.

http://alaskanrebel.com/coppermine/disp ... m=9&pos=32

Hope this helps. Craig

--- c120pilot@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>
To: REBEL BUILDERS <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:06:25 -0800


Drew,
Thank You for the information. I originally doubled the lower doorsill area but replacing the whole lower and angled doorsill with .032 as well as both skins would be much stronger.
I thought of making the doorsill on the outside about 2" deeper with an L to reach where the bulkheads have the notch in them just below the doorsill to strengthen that area. Do you think that is an overkill?
I did the 3" mod to the boot cowl. On the lower panel supports I had to make .032 corner braces to rivet the panel supports to since the angle of the side panels was shallower. Putting upper corner doublers is great advice! The glareshield is cut back and riveted in place with an extention for the windshield, the panel is only clecoe'd in place right now. I will make some doublers for the corners.
Also I noticed in the plans there is nothing about a doubler at the strut attach area where it goes through the skins. Shouldn't this have a doubler?

Thanks again,
Curtis

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:38:07 -0500
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26

I had to replace the skin under the door with .032 and the doorsill with
about .040 after I made wrinkles in both sides during 2 different hard
landing events while on wheels. I also replaced the glareshield with .032
because it wrinkled at the corners of the panel. I also added doublers at
the panel corners after the fact but I believe if you did it while building
that is all that would be needed.

At 06:38 PM 04/01/2011 -0800, you wrote:

I have some questions about the door area on the Rebel. I am just starting

on my interior fittings and flooring. Looking through the pictures and
archives it is evident that the fus 25 area needs thicker skin and doorsill.

Is it necessary to replace fus 26 as well? How many have failed in the

door area? Were they on wheels or floats? Since there are several hundred
rivets to drill out on each side to replace fus 26 as well as the lower
angle I do not want to replace them if it is not necessary but will if it
is. What is the best thickness to use? My goal is to keep moving forward
but seem to keep having to undo the original to beef it up.

If you guys could give me some good advice from your experience I would

appreciate it greatly.

Thanks,
Curtis
175R



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Drew



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[Curtis Langholz]

Craig,

Glad to see someone has done it already so I know how it will look and work.
Great pictures of your plane, they helped a lot! Would you contact me directly? I have some questions about your doors.
c120pilot@hotmail.com

Thank You,
Curtis
175R

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:38:09 -0800
From: snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26

Hi Curtis,

I made my FUS 26 out of .040 and bent a corner into it as you described, riveting it onto the floor on the underside. I think the bend will give it strength and it also looks cleaner than the corner piece the manual calls for. .040 might be overkill but I also have the gull wing door angle there so I just made it all one piece. Here's the web address for this photo on my site if you want to take a look.

http://alaskanrebel.com/coppermine/disp ... m=9&pos=32

Hope this helps. Craig

--- c120pilot@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>
To: REBEL BUILDERS <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:06:25 -0800


Drew,
Thank You for the information. I originally doubled the lower doorsill area but replacing the whole lower and angled doorsill with .032 as well as both skins would be much stronger.
I thought of making the doorsill on the outside about 2" deeper with an L to reach where the bulkheads have the notch in them just below the doorsill to strengthen that area. Do you think that is an overkill?
I did the 3" mod to the boot cowl. On the lower panel supports I had to make .032 corner braces to rivet the panel supports to since the angle of the side panels was shallower. Putting upper corner doublers is great advice! The glareshield is cut back and riveted in place with an extention for the windshield, the panel is only clecoe'd in place right now. I will make some doublers for the corners.
Also I noticed in the plans there is nothing about a doubler at the strut attach area where it goes through the skins. Shouldn't this have a doubler?

Thanks again,
Curtis

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:38:07 -0500
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26

I had to replace the skin under the door with .032 and the doorsill with
about .040 after I made wrinkles in both sides during 2 different hard
landing events while on wheels. I also replaced the glareshield with .032
because it wrinkled at the corners of the panel. I also added doublers at
the panel corners after the fact but I believe if you did it while building
that is all that would be needed.

At 06:38 PM 04/01/2011 -0800, you wrote:

I have some questions about the door area on the Rebel. I am just starting

on my interior fittings and flooring. Looking through the pictures and
archives it is evident that the fus 25 area needs thicker skin and doorsill.

Is it necessary to replace fus 26 as well? How many have failed in the

door area? Were they on wheels or floats? Since there are several hundred
rivets to drill out on each side to replace fus 26 as well as the lower
angle I do not want to replace them if it is not necessary but will if it
is. What is the best thickness to use? My goal is to keep moving forward
but seem to keep having to undo the original to beef it up.

If you guys could give me some good advice from your experience I would

appreciate it greatly.

Thanks,
Curtis
175R



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Drew



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[snowyrvr]

Hi Curtis,

Here's my cell. If you'd like, give me a call tomorrow afternoon, Alaska time. Craig
907-355-6290

--- c120pilot@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>
To: REBEL BUILDERS <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:22:13 -0800


Craig,

Glad to see someone has done it already so I know how it will look and work.
Great pictures of your plane, they helped a lot! Would you contact me directly? I have some questions about your doors.
c120pilot@hotmail.com

Thank You,
Curtis
175R

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:38:09 -0800
From: snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26

Hi Curtis,

I made my FUS 26 out of .040 and bent a corner into it as you described, riveting it onto the floor on the underside. I think the bend will give it strength and it also looks cleaner than the corner piece the manual calls for. .040 might be overkill but I also have the gull wing door angle there so I just made it all one piece. Here's the web address for this photo on my site if you want to take a look.

http://alaskanrebel.com/coppermine/disp ... m=9&pos=32

Hope this helps. Craig

--- c120pilot@hotmail.com wrote:

From: Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>
To: REBEL BUILDERS <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:06:25 -0800


Drew,
Thank You for the information. I originally doubled the lower doorsill area but replacing the whole lower and angled doorsill with .032 as well as both skins would be much stronger.
I thought of making the doorsill on the outside about 2" deeper with an L to reach where the bulkheads have the notch in them just below the doorsill to strengthen that area. Do you think that is an overkill?
I did the 3" mod to the boot cowl. On the lower panel supports I had to make .032 corner braces to rivet the panel supports to since the angle of the side panels was shallower. Putting upper corner doublers is great advice! The glareshield is cut back and riveted in place with an extention for the windshield, the panel is only clecoe'd in place right now. I will make some doublers for the corners.
Also I noticed in the plans there is nothing about a doubler at the strut attach area where it goes through the skins. Shouldn't this have a doubler?

Thanks again,
Curtis

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:38:07 -0500
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
From: drewjan@cabletv.on.ca
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] FUS 25 & 26

I had to replace the skin under the door with .032 and the doorsill with
about .040 after I made wrinkles in both sides during 2 different hard
landing events while on wheels. I also replaced the glareshield with .032
because it wrinkled at the corners of the panel. I also added doublers at
the panel corners after the fact but I believe if you did it while building
that is all that would be needed.

At 06:38 PM 04/01/2011 -0800, you wrote:

I have some questions about the door area on the Rebel. I am just starting

on my interior fittings and flooring. Looking through the pictures and
archives it is evident that the fus 25 area needs thicker skin and doorsill.

Is it necessary to replace fus 26 as well? How many have failed in the

door area? Were they on wheels or floats? Since there are several hundred
rivets to drill out on each side to replace fus 26 as well as the lower
angle I do not want to replace them if it is not necessary but will if it
is. What is the best thickness to use? My goal is to keep moving forward
but seem to keep having to undo the original to beef it up.

If you guys could give me some good advice from your experience I would

appreciate it greatly.

Thanks,
Curtis
175R



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[Drew Dalgleish]

I think making the doorsill a bit longer like you suggest would be a great
idea. Easy to do for a lot of extra strength without adding much weight. I
made doublers for the strut area when I built my plane. It would be a pain
to have to repair cracks in the skin there.

At 04:06 PM 05/01/2011 -0800, you wrote:

Drew,
Thank You for the information. I originally doubled the lower doorsill

area but replacing the whole lower and angled doorsill with .032 as well as
both skins would be much stronger.

I thought of making the doorsill on the outside about 2" deeper with an L

to reach where the bulkheads have the notch in them just below the doorsill
to strengthen that area. Do you think that is an overkill?

I did the 3" mod to the boot cowl. On the lower panel supports I had to

make .032 corner braces to rivet the panel supports to since the angle of
the side panels was shallower. Putting upper corner doublers is great
advice! The glareshield is cut back and riveted in place with an extention
for the windshield, the panel is only clecoe'd in place right now. I will
make some doublers for the corners.

Also I noticed in the plans there is nothing about a doubler at the

strut attach area where it goes through the skins. Shouldn't this have a
doubler?

Thanks again,
Curtis

Drew



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