[rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

If the rudder trim is bent to the right.. pushing rudder to left... it is
adding to your left turn tendency.. not helping it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Yau" <jayyau28@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:13 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Need some help for rigging the Rebel....

My left aileron needs to be 1" low and right aileron needs to be 1" high
in order to level the wings (left wing heavy). The rudder trim is offset
to the right, which would push the rudder to the left a little bit in
order to fly straight.

Any Rebel/Elite pilot has similar issues can share your wisdom with me?

I'm not the builder, I went through the installation manual, didn't see it
anywhere mention "aircraft rigging", where are the documentation?

Jay

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

..also.. other things to try to help you! Engine.. lyco/rotax.. or a
backwards turning auto conversion?

Is the fin mounted straight.. or is it offset.. how much. and which way if
so?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

If the rudder trim is bent to the right.. pushing rudder to left... it is
adding to your left turn tendency.. not helping it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Yau" <jayyau28@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:13 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Need some help for rigging the Rebel....

My left aileron needs to be 1" low and right aileron needs to be 1" high
in order to level the wings (left wing heavy). The rudder trim is offset
to the right, which would push the rudder to the left a little bit in
order to fly straight.

Any Rebel/Elite pilot has similar issues can share your wisdom with me?

I'm not the builder, I went through the installation manual, didn't see
it
anywhere mention "aircraft rigging", where are the documentation?

Jay

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Jay Yau · Post by **Jay Yau** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

that's the only way I can maintain the heading ---straight. Am I doing it wrong?

Jay

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 00:26:35 -0400

If the rudder trim is bent to the right.. pushing rudder to left... it is
adding to your left turn tendency.. not helping it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Yau" <jayyau28@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:13 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Need some help for rigging the Rebel....

My left aileron needs to be 1" low and right aileron needs to be 1" high
in order to level the wings (left wing heavy). The rudder trim is offset
to the right, which would push the rudder to the left a little bit in
order to fly straight.

Any Rebel/Elite pilot has similar issues can share your wisdom with me?

I'm not the builder, I went through the installation manual, didn't see it
anywhere mention "aircraft rigging", where are the documentation?

Jay

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Jay Yau · Post by **Jay Yau** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi Wayne,

I have O-320 B2A, 160 Hp.

Jay

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 00:45:48 -0400

..also.. other things to try to help you! Engine.. lyco/rotax.. or a
backwards turning auto conversion?

Is the fin mounted straight.. or is it offset.. how much. and which way if
so?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

If the rudder trim is bent to the right.. pushing rudder to left... it is
adding to your left turn tendency.. not helping it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Yau" <jayyau28@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:13 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Need some help for rigging the Rebel....

My left aileron needs to be 1" low and right aileron needs to be 1" high
in order to level the wings (left wing heavy). The rudder trim is offset
to the right, which would push the rudder to the left a little bit in
order to fly straight.

Any Rebel/Elite pilot has similar issues can share your wisdom with me?

I'm not the builder, I went through the installation manual, didn't see
it
anywhere mention "aircraft rigging", where are the documentation?

Jay

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Jay Yau · Post by **Jay Yau** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi Wayne,

If I remember right, the ball was a little bit to the left, that's why I bent the rudder trim a little bit to the right to give a slightly left rudder to bring the ball back to the center. Does this contribute to left wing heavy?

Jay

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 00:26:35 -0400

If the rudder trim is bent to the right.. pushing rudder to left... it is
adding to your left turn tendency.. not helping it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Yau" <jayyau28@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:13 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Need some help for rigging the Rebel....

My left aileron needs to be 1" low and right aileron needs to be 1" high
in order to level the wings (left wing heavy). The rudder trim is offset
to the right, which would push the rudder to the left a little bit in
order to fly straight.

Any Rebel/Elite pilot has similar issues can share your wisdom with me?

I'm not the builder, I went through the installation manual, didn't see it
anywhere mention "aircraft rigging", where are the documentation?

Jay

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Jay Yau · Post by **Jay Yau** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

The fin looks pretty straight to me.

Jay

From: jayyau28@hotmail.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 21:54:27 -0700

Hi Wayne,

I have O-320 B2A, 160 Hp.

Jay

From: oifa@irishfield.on.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 00:45:48 -0400

..also.. other things to try to help you! Engine.. lyco/rotax.. or a
backwards turning auto conversion?

Is the fin mounted straight.. or is it offset.. how much. and which way if
so?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

If the rudder trim is bent to the right.. pushing rudder to left... it is
adding to your left turn tendency.. not helping it!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Yau" <jayyau28@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:13 AM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Are you flying in reflex or in neutral flaperon setting when your left wing
is heavy? With my Rebel, it is totally hands off in reflex (which is what
you want), but in neutral it is slightly heavy on one side, too (can't
remember which side, though). I don't know why there is a difference, but
there is.

I have no rudder trim tab on mine, but my fin is offset by 3/4 inch as per
manual. In cruise, it is neutral, but in climb, I need to push some right
rudder, which is what you would expect.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:45 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Any Murphy builder out there has answers for rigging the Rebel?

My left wing is heavy when flying solo, I'm 150lbs, both fuel tank equal,
with lycoming engine O-320 160hp.

In order to keep the wings level, I had to trim the Aileron so left aileron
is 1" down and right aileron 1" up, and a little bit of left rudder to keep
the nose straight (ball in the center), where could be the problem?

If I neutralize everything and start from fresh un-rigged condition, do I
trim the rudder first or Aileron first?

Jay

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Jay Yau · Post by **Jay Yau** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Walter,

Appreciated for your reply.

My situation is like yours, when I'm cruising with flaperon on reflex, with the current trim, I could fly hands free.

The left wing will become heavier when the flaperon set to neutral or 2,3 notch, the rudder is trimmed to have slightly left rudder input, otherwise the nose will move to the right (during cruise).

So, if I'm on Neutral or higher notch flaperon, the stick needs to move 1" to the right to pick the heavy left wing. (left aileron is 1" down and right Aileron is 1" up).

During climb out, my Rebel always requires right rudder to counter balance the slip stream and P-factor. 160HP is pretty powerful for a 950 lb airplane.

Can you look at both of your ailerons next time when you cruise with flaperon neutral ?

Jay

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:03:31 -0700

Are you flying in reflex or in neutral flaperon setting when your left wing
is heavy? With my Rebel, it is totally hands off in reflex (which is what
you want), but in neutral it is slightly heavy on one side, too (can't
remember which side, though). I don't know why there is a difference, but
there is.

I have no rudder trim tab on mine, but my fin is offset by 3/4 inch as per
manual. In cruise, it is neutral, but in climb, I need to push some right
rudder, which is what you would expect.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:45 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging

Any Murphy builder out there has answers for rigging the Rebel?

My left wing is heavy when flying solo, I'm 150lbs, both fuel tank equal,
with lycoming engine O-320 160hp.

In order to keep the wings level, I had to trim the Aileron so left aileron
is 1" down and right aileron 1" up, and a little bit of left rudder to keep
the nose straight (ball in the center), where could be the problem?

If I neutralize everything and start from fresh un-rigged condition, do I
trim the rudder first or Aileron first?

Jay

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi Jay !

This is a very common problem ... if you have the original fiberglass
wingtips, there's a good chance one is lower than the other.

Easy fix is remove or straighten all other tabs, then cut a piece
of Lexan about 3 or 4" wide, by about 2 inches. Bend the rear 1"
down about 1/8" to start, and fasten it to the rear of the left tip,
with the wider direction parallel to the wing span. (4" wide x 1" down)
Be sure to round all corners of the tab, so you can't injure anyone
with it, right near eye level. Test fly, and bend down more if necessary.

Walter is right, you should be neutral with 2 notches of reflex flapperon.
With the O-320, you should have 2 notches of negative - drill an extra hole !

For easier trim . I usually wrap a piece of bungee cord around the left
stick a couple of turns, and hook it to the tube at the right stick base.
To adjust aileron trim, just slide the bungee up or down the stick !
Gliders did this for years ... for elevator trim too ...

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
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Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

On April 5, 2010 03:44:58 pm Jay Yau wrote:

Any Murphy builder out there has answers for rigging the Rebel?

My left wing is heavy when flying solo, I'm 150lbs, both fuel tank equal,
with lycoming engine O-320 160hp.

In order to keep the wings level, I had to trim the Aileron so left aileron
is 1" down and right aileron 1" up, and a little bit of left rudder to
keep the nose straight (ball in the center), where could be the problem?

If I neutralize everything and start from fresh un-rigged condition, do I
trim the rudder first or Aileron first?

Jay

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Jay Yau · Post by **Jay Yau** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Bob,

So wonderful to hear from you, and thank you for sharing your wisdom with me.

I'm not sure if my fiberglass wingtip is "original" (I didn't build her), if I understand correctly, the Mod is to add more surface area and lift to heavier wing, am I correct? But I still don't understand how could it be "fastened" to the rear of wingtip, do I need to rivet in the wing tip fiberglass? My wingtip is riveted to the wing.

The bungee stick trim is brilliant, I use the same method to secure my flap control handle, the builder had built in a way that if could pop lose during landing (never happened but has that potential)

I'll modify and add the 2nd notch of reflex (negative flaps) if the control plate has room for extra, I remember it has pretty much reached the front already.

I may fly Rebel to Oshkosh this year.

Jay

From: bobp@prosumers.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 16:56:10 -0400

Hi Jay !

This is a very common problem ... if you have the original fiberglass
wingtips, there's a good chance one is lower than the other.

Easy fix is remove or straighten all other tabs, then cut a piece
of Lexan about 3 or 4" wide, by about 2 inches. Bend the rear 1"
down about 1/8" to start, and fasten it to the rear of the left tip,
with the wider direction parallel to the wing span. (4" wide x 1" down)
Be sure to round all corners of the tab, so you can't injure anyone
with it, right near eye level. Test fly, and bend down more if necessary.

Walter is right, you should be neutral with 2 notches of reflex flapperon.
With the O-320, you should have 2 notches of negative - drill an extra hole !

For easier trim . I usually wrap a piece of bungee cord around the left
stick a couple of turns, and hook it to the tube at the right stick base.
To adjust aileron trim, just slide the bungee up or down the stick !
Gliders did this for years ... for elevator trim too ...

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

On April 5, 2010 03:44:58 pm Jay Yau wrote:
Any Murphy builder out there has answers for rigging the Rebel?

My left wing is heavy when flying solo, I'm 150lbs, both fuel tank equal,
with lycoming engine O-320 160hp.

In order to keep the wings level, I had to trim the Aileron so left aileron
is 1" down and right aileron 1" up, and a little bit of left rudder to
keep the nose straight (ball in the center), where could be the problem?

If I neutralize everything and start from fresh un-rigged condition, do I
trim the rudder first or Aileron first?

Jay

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Hi Jay !

Yes, you can rivet the piece of Lexan to the tip, or maybe use
self-tapping screws until you get the angle right ...

Sounds like just the bungee might do the trick ...

The extra notch of reflex should give another 3 mph cruise ...

If you fly to OSH, maybe you can park in central Homebuilt Camping.
We hope to have 2 Moose there for a non-stop Murphy Party ! :-)

We leave in the morning for Sun 'n Fun - big Murphy Builders Party
is Tuesday, April 13th, starting at 4 PM in the Campground Corn Roast
area. Everybody welcome !! Hope to see you all there !

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

On April 5, 2010 05:33:08 pm Jay Yau wrote:

Bob,

So wonderful to hear from you, and thank you for sharing your wisdom with
me.

I'm not sure if my fiberglass wingtip is "original" (I didn't build her),
if I understand correctly, the Mod is to add more surface area and lift to
heavier wing, am I correct? But I still don't understand how could it be
"fastened" to the rear of wingtip, do I need to rivet in the wing tip
fiberglass? My wingtip is riveted to the wing.

The bungee stick trim is brilliant, I use the same method to secure my flap
control handle, the builder had built in a way that if could pop lose
during landing (never happened but has that potential)

I'll modify and add the 2nd notch of reflex (negative flaps) if the control
plate has room for extra, I remember it has pretty much reached the front
already.

I may fly Rebel to Oshkosh this year.

Jay

From: bobp@prosumers.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Aircraft rigging
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 16:56:10 -0400

Hi Jay !

This is a very common problem ... if you have the original fiberglass
wingtips, there's a good chance one is lower than the other.

Easy fix is remove or straighten all other tabs, then cut a piece
of Lexan about 3 or 4" wide, by about 2 inches. Bend the rear 1"
down about 1/8" to start, and fasten it to the rear of the left tip,
with the wider direction parallel to the wing span. (4" wide x 1" down)
Be sure to round all corners of the tab, so you can't injure anyone
with it, right near eye level. Test fly, and bend down more if necessary.

Walter is right, you should be neutral with 2 notches of reflex
flapperon. With the O-320, you should have 2 notches of negative - drill
an extra hole !

For easier trim . I usually wrap a piece of bungee cord around the left
stick a couple of turns, and hook it to the tube at the right stick base.
To adjust aileron trim, just slide the bungee up or down the stick !
Gliders did this for years ... for elevator trim too ...

Any Murphy builder out there has answers for rigging the Rebel?

My left wing is heavy when flying solo, I'm 150lbs, both fuel tank
equal, with lycoming engine O-320 160hp.

In order to keep the wings level, I had to trim the Aileron so left
aileron is 1" down and right aileron 1" up, and a little bit of left
rudder to keep the nose straight (ball in the center), where could be
the problem?

If I neutralize everything and start from fresh un-rigged condition, do
I trim the rudder first or Aileron first?

Jay

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