[rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Charlie.. if you can live with it.. consider.. extra weight.. is weight...
that you won't have in the tanks that makes the heavy thing up front make
noise!

If you can't live with it.. many have used numerous pieces of the 5/8 tube
from firewall to carrythru and another layer of aluminum on top for a double
floor. PITA when it comes time to install amphib hydraulic lines.. I can
tell you that. Others have installed pieces of witches hat under the cabin
in the same areas ... picking up the delrin block bolts for the pedals.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Eric Fogelin · Post by **Eric Fogelin** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Hi Charlie,

This topic has come up in the past and there is discussion in the archives
plus photos in the Elite and Rebel sections showing different solutions:
extra square tube, double floor, witches hats.

I ended up sticking to the original design. It appears to work fine. The
small brake discs and extra weight on amphib floats require plenty of
pressure, but on conventional gear the pressure is reasonable.

I decided to build as designed, keep an eye on the area where the rudder
pedal bolt heads are located and check for sheared rivets or cracks around
the corner wraps (from engine bouncing in rough water). I'll beef up later
if necessary, but so far so good...

Build it, fly it, fix it if it breaks.

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Charlie Eubanks
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two inboard 2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Charlie Eubanks · Post by **Charlie Eubanks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

I didn't particularly like the idea of a double floor either Charlie.

With the original brake master cylinder lower mount on the rudder pedals
I don't think there will really be any floor flexing. However I highly
recommend putting a bracket on the floor for the lower master cylinder
attach point and that will indeed tend to flex the floor. Perhaps the
newer kits already to that?? Probably still not much of a concern though
with the JDM brakes as mine don't require much foot pressure. I think
some of the older matco brakes do require firm foot pressure and that
has been known to bend the floor on some zenith aircraft.

Nevertheless I do like the idea of something like 1/2" or 5/8" square
tubes run forward and aft on the top side of the floor from the cage to
the lower engine mount doublers, both for the issue you stated AND to
reduce similar flexing caused by the engine weight flexing the lower
engine mounts. Instead of square tubes I just bent up some flat channels
that are about 1/2" high.
_ _
|___|

I have never noticed an issue with those interfering with my feet.
However for a bit of thermal insulation and as a wear strip, I did drop
some plywood panel material perhaps 1/8" thick into the spaces. I guess
with most air cooled engines the floor probably runs fairly warm anyway
in the winter.

A few guys have riveted an angle on the exterior of the floor but that
is easy to do later before painting. I don't think anything as robust as
a witch hat is required. Plywood floor boards (mentioned above) would
conceal any rivets coming through the floor.

Just another thought for you to ponder but don't ponder very long as it
can really slow progress.... ;)

Ken

Charlie Eubanks wrote:

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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snowyrvr@mtaonline.net · Post by **snowyrvr@mtaonline.net** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Charlie,

I put the witch's hat pieces under mine and the little rivets are
minor...if anything they might help a slick floor. BTW, huge difference in
flexing. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Charlie Eubanks charlie@troyairpark.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:40:04 -0600
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

You could also install the rivets from the inside! ;o)

----- Original Message -----
From: <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Charlie,

I put the witch's hat pieces under mine and the little rivets are
minor...if anything they might help a slick floor. BTW, huge difference
in
flexing. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Charlie Eubanks charlie@troyairpark.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:40:04 -0600
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount
of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give
this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when
I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic
rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering
reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Jeff Micheal · Post by **Jeff Micheal** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

But won't the rivet tails cause too much drag and slow you down ??

Good Morning/Afternoon Wayne

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>wrote:

You could also install the rivets from the inside! ;o)

----- Original Message -----
From: <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Charlie,

I put the witch's hat pieces under mine and the little rivets are
minor...if anything they might help a slick floor. BTW, huge difference
in
flexing. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Charlie Eubanks charlie@troyairpark.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:40:04 -0600
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods
and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount
of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give
this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when
I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic
rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering
reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two
inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Charlie Eubanks · Post by **Charlie Eubanks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

Thanks Guys I.. deserved that. I was more conserned about catching my heel
when trying to operate the rudder pedals. But as Ken pointed out.. it could
be covered with a piece of plywood.
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

You could also install the rivets from the inside! ;o)

----- Original Message -----
From: <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Charlie,

I put the witch's hat pieces under mine and the little rivets are
minor...if anything they might help a slick floor. BTW, huge difference
in
flexing. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Charlie Eubanks charlie@troyairpark.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:40:04 -0600
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods
and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount
of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give
this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when
I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic
rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering
reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two
inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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David Jackson · Post by **David Jackson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

One suggestion I have heard is to just use the ST-40 channel on the exterior underneath the floorboard. Weight and drag penalty should be minimal (as long as you don't put the channel crossways). Anyone done this?

From: charlie@troyairpark.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:40:04 -0600

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and when I
set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the plastic rudder
blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable flexing of the floor
boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering reinforcing
the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube, running from the
firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet it to the two inboard
2
x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this be an adequate fix? Would
really appreciate suggestions are a proven solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Richard Wampach · Post by **Richard Wampach** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

YES...many PIPER's. Some with air conditioning even ran Freon lines inside
of them. This could be a place for electrical bundles also.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of David
Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:20 PM
To: Rebel Builders
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

One suggestion I have heard is to just use the ST-40 channel on the exterior
underneath the floorboard. Weight and drag penalty should be minimal (as
long as you don't put the channel crossways). Anyone done this?

From: charlie@troyairpark.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:40:04 -0600

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving
me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods and

it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount

of

weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give

this

some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Hello All

I have my rudder pedals installed and the control cables rigged and
when I set in the seat and move the rudder pedals full travel, the
plastic rudder blocks rotate about 1/8" and cause an un-acceptable
flexing of the floor boards.

I am sure most have experienced this problem. I am considering
reinforcing the floor boards with some .032 x 5/8 sq. Al. tube,
running from the firewall back to the cabin carry through then rivet
it to the two inboard 2 x 5 doublers and the floor boards. Will this
be an adequate fix? Would really appreciate suggestions are a proven
solution.

Charlie E, 802R

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

I just put in 2 triangular doublers. 1 catches the firewall and the corner
wrap and the other the firewall and the centre square tube. I haven't ever
felt my floor flexing or found any damage from it. I try not to look at my
feet while I'm flying :)

At 01:53 PM 13/01/2010 -0600, you wrote:

Thanks Guys I.. deserved that. I was more conserned about catching my heel
when trying to operate the rudder pedals. But as Ken pointed out.. it could
be covered with a piece of plywood.
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

You could also install the rivets from the inside! ;o)

----- Original Message -----
From: <snowyrvr@mtaonline.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Charlie,

I put the witch's hat pieces under mine and the little rivets are
minor...if anything they might help a slick floor. BTW, huge difference
in
flexing. Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Charlie Eubanks charlie@troyairpark.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:40:04 -0600
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

Wayne, Bob & Eric

Thanks for your comments on the floor board flexing. You have giving me
three different ways to look at it. Maybe I might be over reacting to the
flexing. I sure hate to add and other 4+ lbs. up front with the second
floor. Been there and done that a couple times already with other mods
and
it is starting to add up. Adding the witches' hat to the underside of the
floor sounds the most effective and would probably adds the least amount
of
weight. Don't like all of the rivets sticking up through the floor boards
under ones heel. Thanks again for your help. Guess I will have to give
this
some more thought.

Charlie 802R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Eubanks" <charlie@troyairpark.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:53 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Floor boards flexing

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