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[rebel-builders] vortex generators

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
David A. Ricker

[rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Post by David A. Ricker » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Been watching the discussion with interest and I have a question or
two. Is there any down side to the VGs other than perhaps more
troublesome to wash the wings? Any control issues? Loss of top
speed/fuel efficiency?

Cheers,

Dave



Ron Shannon wrote:
Thanks.

The performance changes with VG's have been discussed frequently here,
including a lengthy thread just a few months ago. If you search the message
archives for "VG" you'll get a bushel full of data and opinions, on all
brands and placements.

Ron
254R


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>wrote:

Ron,

I beleive he followed their pattern behind the first rivet line. I called
him and he is going to send a picture to me.

What kind of results to others get with different placement of the VG's?
On my Cessna 120 they were close to the leading edge also but were smaller
in size then the ones for the Rebels. After having them on the 120 I plan
on putting them on any other plane I own. They really made it a safer plane
to land due to the full aileron control in a stall without getting into a
spin, even trying to in cross control stall it would not drop a wing.

Curtis

175R




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walter.klatt

[rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Post by walter.klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Have had mine for a few years now, and no down sides that I have ever noticed with flying. However, some interference with fuel containers if you lean them on the wing while fueling. If I was doing it again, would just leave a few off in front of the filler necks.

Lowered stall by about 8 mph, and improved aileron response at low speeds.

Mine are the Landshorter.com ones and at the 10 % location.

As Ron mentioned, lots of discussion on these in the archives.

Walter
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "David A. Ricker" <daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:49
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Been watching the discussion with interest and I have a question or
two. Is there any down side to the VGs other than perhaps more
troublesome to wash the wings? Any control issues? Loss of top
speed/fuel efficiency?

Cheers,

Dave



Ron Shannon wrote:
Thanks.

The performance changes with VG's have been discussed frequently here,
including a lengthy thread just a few months ago. If you search the message
archives for "VG" you'll get a bushel full of data and opinions, on all
brands and placements.

Ron
254R


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>wrote:

Ron,

I beleive he followed their pattern behind the first rivet line. I called
him and he is going to send a picture to me.

What kind of results to others get with different placement of the VG's?
On my Cessna 120 they were close to the leading edge also but were smaller
in size then the ones for the Rebels. After having them on the 120 I plan
on putting them on any other plane I own. They really made it a safer plane
to land due to the full aileron control in a stall without getting into a
spin, even trying to in cross control stall it would not drop a wing.

Curtis

175R




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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Hey Walter Did you ever bother installing them on your stabilizer?

At 12:09 AM 11/06/2010 +0000, you wrote:
Have had mine for a few years now, and no down sides that I have ever
noticed with flying. However, some interference with fuel containers if you
lean them on the wing while fueling. If I was doing it again, would just
leave a few off in front of the filler necks.
Lowered stall by about 8 mph, and improved aileron response at low speeds.

Mine are the Landshorter.com ones and at the 10 % location.

As Ron mentioned, lots of discussion on these in the archives.

Walter
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
Drew



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walter.klatt

[rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Post by walter.klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Not yet. On floats with the higher landing speeds, I have not had a lack of elevator authority. But they would probably still help further. Could have used them back when I was on wheels, though.

Walter
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Dalgleish <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:29:28
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Hey Walter Did you ever bother installing them on your stabilizer?

At 12:09 AM 11/06/2010 +0000, you wrote:
Have had mine for a few years now, and no down sides that I have ever
noticed with flying. However, some interference with fuel containers if you
lean them on the wing while fueling. If I was doing it again, would just
leave a few off in front of the filler necks.
Lowered stall by about 8 mph, and improved aileron response at low speeds.

Mine are the Landshorter.com ones and at the 10 % location.

As Ron mentioned, lots of discussion on these in the archives.

Walter
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
Drew



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rebflyer

[rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Post by rebflyer » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm

I just installed the Micro Vg's on my Rebel with the Angus cuff. I Installed them on the wings with clear silicone for testing purposes for ease of removal. All of the Long-ez folks use that method for installation.The ones on the bottom of the Horizontal were installed with the Locktite bonding. I think it may be easier to reskin than remove them! First flight is yet to come. Finished last night and work got in the way today. I'll be sure to post my results. They are installed 4.5 inches aft of the leading cuff, same dimension back as without the cuff. Talking with the factory they stated that when the installing on a C-185 they use the same tool for installation with or without the cuff. This moved them 1.65" forward of the location without the cuff. They recomend centered between the two most forward rivet lines wihout the cuff.
It should be interesting with the Fife tips, Angus stol kit and now the vg's. Maybe I will be able to hover :-)
Walter, did you open the float to aircraft "mouth" with your vg install? Just to verify where do you place the level on the aircraft? Seat rails? Bottom of the Fuselage? I know I'm just looking for the difference. I can't remember the exact but I think I'm 3.5 deg difference between the fuse and the floats. Sound right? It's been a while since installation.
Curt Martin
N97MR






-----Original Message-----
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Thu, Jun 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Vortex generators


Have had mine for a few years now, and no down sides that I have ever noticed
ith flying. However, some interference with fuel containers if you lean them on
he wing while fueling. If I was doing it again, would just leave a few off in
ront of the filler necks.
Lowered stall by about 8 mph, and improved aileron response at low speeds.
Mine are the Landshorter.com ones and at the 10 % location.
As Ron mentioned, lots of discussion on these in the archives.
Walter
ent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
rom: "David A. Ricker" <daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>
ate: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:49
o: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
ubject: Re: [rebel-builders] Vortex generators
Been watching the discussion with interest and I have a question or
wo. Is there any down side to the VGs other than perhaps more
roublesome to wash the wings? Any control issues? Loss of top
peed/fuel efficiency?
Cheers,
Dave

Ron Shannon wrote:
Thanks.

The performance changes with VG's have been discussed frequently here,
including a lengthy thread just a few months ago. If you search the message
archives for "VG" you'll get a bushel full of data and opinions, on all
brands and placements.

Ron
254R


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>wrote:

Ron,

I beleive he followed their pattern behind the first rivet line. I called
him and he is going to send a picture to me.

What kind of results to others get with different placement of the VG's?
On my Cessna 120 they were close to the leading edge also but were smaller
in size then the ones for the Rebels. After having them on the 120 I plan
on putting them on any other plane I own. They really made it a safer plane
to land due to the full aileron control in a stall without getting into a
spin, even trying to in cross control stall it would not drop a wing.

Curtis

175R




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walter.klatt

[rebel-builders] Vortex generators

Post by walter.klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm

I first did mine with double sided carpet tape, easy to remove and reposition.

I opened my float angle from 2.5 to 3.5 just this winter, before I installed Wayne's canoe mount. VGs have been on for a few years. I measure theangle between top of floats and bottom of cabin fuselage. Bottom of top window sill works the same.

Walter


Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: rebflyer@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:52:14
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Vortex generators


I just installed the Micro Vg's on my Rebel with the Angus cuff. I Installed them on the wings with clear silicone for testing purposes for ease of removal. All of the Long-ez folks use that method for installation.The ones on the bottom of the Horizontal were installed with the Locktite bonding. I think it may be easier to reskin than remove them! First flight is yet to come. Finished last night and work got in the way today. I'll be sure to post my results. They are installed 4.5 inches aft of the leading cuff, same dimension back as without the cuff. Talking with the factory they stated that when the installing on a C-185 they use the same tool for installation with or without the cuff. This moved them 1.65" forward of the location without the cuff. They recomend centered between the two most forward rivet lines wihout the cuff.
It should be interesting with the Fife tips, Angus stol kit and now the vg's. Maybe I will be able to hover :-)
Walter, did you open the float to aircraft "mouth" with your vg install? Just to verify where do you place the level on the aircraft? Seat rails? Bottom of the Fuselage? I know I'm just looking for the difference. I can't remember the exact but I think I'm 3.5 deg difference between the fuse and the floats. Sound right? It's been a while since installation.
Curt Martin
N97MR






-----Original Message-----
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Thu, Jun 10, 2010 8:09 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Vortex generators


Have had mine for a few years now, and no down sides that I have ever noticed
ith flying. However, some interference with fuel containers if you lean them on
he wing while fueling. If I was doing it again, would just leave a few off in
ront of the filler necks.
Lowered stall by about 8 mph, and improved aileron response at low speeds.
Mine are the Landshorter.com ones and at the 10 % location.
As Ron mentioned, lots of discussion on these in the archives.
Walter
ent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
rom: "David A. Ricker" <daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>
ate: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:32:49
o: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
ubject: Re: [rebel-builders] Vortex generators
Been watching the discussion with interest and I have a question or
wo. Is there any down side to the VGs other than perhaps more
roublesome to wash the wings? Any control issues? Loss of top
peed/fuel efficiency?
Cheers,
Dave

Ron Shannon wrote:
Thanks.

The performance changes with VG's have been discussed frequently here,
including a lengthy thread just a few months ago. If you search the message
archives for "VG" you'll get a bushel full of data and opinions, on all
brands and placements.

Ron
254R


On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Curtis Langholz <c120pilot@hotmail.com>wrote:

Ron,

I beleive he followed their pattern behind the first rivet line. I called
him and he is going to send a picture to me.

What kind of results to others get with different placement of the VG's?
On my Cessna 120 they were close to the leading edge also but were smaller
in size then the ones for the Rebels. After having them on the 120 I plan
on putting them on any other plane I own. They really made it a safer plane
to land due to the full aileron control in a stall without getting into a
spin, even trying to in cross control stall it would not drop a wing.

Curtis

175R




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Locked