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Rudder tip

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
rebelair

Rudder tip

Post by rebelair » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Hi Ken

Thanks for your excellent thoughts. I will keep my eyes open for more info
on this. Still can't remember if I put the counter weight in the rudder.
One thing for sure, if it is there, I am not going to bother trying to get
it out.

Best Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rudder tip


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Brian

I believe the flex (and twist) properties of the structure that a
control surface is attached to is a very important part of flutter. It
is possible that the attachment method of the vertical fin vs. the stab
is sufficiently different that an added weight is not needed in the
rudder. Happily there are enough Rebels flying to confirm that the
weight is not needed on a stock rudder.

Similar situation with ailerons. Some ailerons need a mass balance
because of wing flex properties but the stock fabric covered Rebel
aileron doesn't at normal speeds. Change the construction method of the
wing though and troubles could arise.

There are other factors as well but I think that is the most likely
explanation.

Ken

ps - as an unrelated tidbit that has nothing to do with a Rebel - I have
even read of situations where the aileron became a trim tab for the
wing. ie up aileron twisted the wing enough to make the wing go up. Bad
day!

Hi There
The weights are definitely there to reduce flutter. I am reasonably sure
that the rudder would need
one as well as the elevators as the design in similar.
Comments?
Brian #328R

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Wayne G. O'Shea

Rudder tip

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Brian, unless you bought an extra piece of lead, you don't have any in your
rudder as MAM never supplied any for it!!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:52 PM
Subject: RE: Rudder tip


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Ken

Thanks for your excellent thoughts. I will keep my eyes open for more
info
on this. Still can't remember if I put the counter weight in the rudder.
One thing for sure, if it is there, I am not going to bother trying to get
it out.

Best Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rudder tip


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Brian

I believe the flex (and twist) properties of the structure that a
control surface is attached to is a very important part of flutter. It
is possible that the attachment method of the vertical fin vs. the stab
is sufficiently different that an added weight is not needed in the
rudder. Happily there are enough Rebels flying to confirm that the
weight is not needed on a stock rudder.

Similar situation with ailerons. Some ailerons need a mass balance
because of wing flex properties but the stock fabric covered Rebel
aileron doesn't at normal speeds. Change the construction method of the
wing though and troubles could arise.

There are other factors as well but I think that is the most likely
explanation.

Ken

ps - as an unrelated tidbit that has nothing to do with a Rebel - I have
even read of situations where the aileron became a trim tab for the
wing. ie up aileron twisted the wing enough to make the wing go up. Bad
day!

Hi There
The weights are definitely there to reduce flutter. I am reasonably sure
that the rudder would need
one as well as the elevators as the design in similar.
Comments?
Brian #328R

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rebelair

Rudder tip

Post by rebelair » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:47 pm

HI Wayne

Well I guess that settles that! No flutter in my Rebel that I have
detected. No brain in my head either because for the life of me, I cannot
remember!

Thanks

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:01 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rudder tip


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Brian, unless you bought an extra piece of lead, you don't have any in your
rudder as MAM never supplied any for it!!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:52 PM
Subject: RE: Rudder tip


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Ken

Thanks for your excellent thoughts. I will keep my eyes open for more
info
on this. Still can't remember if I put the counter weight in the rudder.
One thing for sure, if it is there, I am not going to bother trying to get
it out.

Best Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rudder tip


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi Brian

I believe the flex (and twist) properties of the structure that a
control surface is attached to is a very important part of flutter. It
is possible that the attachment method of the vertical fin vs. the stab
is sufficiently different that an added weight is not needed in the
rudder. Happily there are enough Rebels flying to confirm that the
weight is not needed on a stock rudder.

Similar situation with ailerons. Some ailerons need a mass balance
because of wing flex properties but the stock fabric covered Rebel
aileron doesn't at normal speeds. Change the construction method of the
wing though and troubles could arise.

There are other factors as well but I think that is the most likely
explanation.

Ken

ps - as an unrelated tidbit that has nothing to do with a Rebel - I have
even read of situations where the aileron became a trim tab for the
wing. ie up aileron twisted the wing enough to make the wing go up. Bad
day!

Hi There
The weights are definitely there to reduce flutter. I am reasonably sure
that the rudder would need
one as well as the elevators as the design in similar.
Comments?
Brian #328R

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Roland P.

Rudder tip

Post by Roland P. » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Hi!
I would like you to know that I had my Rebel during the test flights right up to 151 mph
- NO "counter weight" in the rudder tip - and all the controls felt just perfect!


Locked