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Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
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Rob Helt

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Rob Helt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X. If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs. the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr. Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

My next door neighbor at the hangar is building a pitts model 12
he claims 15-17gph at cruise and 30gph at full throttle
drew

At 08:39 PM 12/19/00 -0500, you wrote:
I've got a question for anyone who knows about the Radial engine
for
the Super Rebel. WHAT'S THE FUEL BURN ON THAT BABY? Thanks.
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




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Bob Patterson

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X. If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs. the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr. Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

My next door neighbor at the hangar is building a pitts model 12
he claims 15-17gph at cruise and 30gph at full throttle
drew

At 08:39 PM 12/19/00 -0500, you wrote:
for
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
rebelair

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by rebelair » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Wayne

I also had trouble viewing the BabyBeaver jpegs. I use Outlook. The
system locked up & had to CTL-ALT-Del to end Outlook but then I could view
the jpegs!? There is so much in life that I don't understand its scary.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:36 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14


Mike, I am using Internet Explorer as a browser and Outlook Express for
mail. Just wanted to make sure the address you have posted is correct. I
will get the household computer expert (my son, who else) to figure it out
for me. As for pictures of the "babybeaver", all I have to do is go over to
Rob Helt's to view a hundred or so of both the flying one and another one
that they have under construction up in Whitefish. He did a personal visit
to the "construction" site a couple months ago!

Thanks,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

What browser are you using? I've tested it with both Internet Explorer &
Netscape... you might have a problem with your installation. I can send
them to you directly if you'd like. Also, I will eventually get them
posted
on the web site!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Mike, Is that the correct site address?? As I have said before I can
never
get into this ftp site you and others keep talking about. If I click on,
or
type in, this address all it does is freeze my computer.

Thanks, Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he
prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy
had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such
a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with
Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes
off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those
settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

engine
for
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
rebelair

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by rebelair » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi There

What is the M-462? Is this a derated M-14P or something completely
different?

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:14 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14



Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X. If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs. the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr. Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he
prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

My next door neighbor at the hangar is building a pitts model 12
he claims 15-17gph at cruise and 30gph at full throttle
drew

At 08:39 PM 12/19/00 -0500, you wrote:
for
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top
Bob Patterson

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Thanks Mike !!

No problem at all viewing them with Netscape 3 and WinDoze 3.11 !!
The older stuff is "more compatible" !! ;-)

Do you have more photos ?? Would love to see some of it in
action !!

....bobp

--------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 08:38 PM 12/23/00 -0900, you wrote:
This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

My next door neighbor at the hangar is building a pitts model 12
he claims 15-17gph at cruise and 30gph at full throttle
drew

At 08:39 PM 12/19/00 -0500, you wrote:
I've got a question for anyone who knows about the Radial engine for
the Super Rebel. WHAT'S THE FUEL BURN ON THAT BABY? Thanks.
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

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Wayne G. O'Shea

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 177 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 17:23:46 on 24 Dec 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


I guess that makes two of us Brian!!!!

Wayne

There is so much in life that I don't understand its scary.
Brian #328R
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Rob Helt

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Rob Helt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Bob;
I agree that this is an option, using the M-14 without doing the mods to
increase the gross. Personally I think of this as having a Ferrari and
abiding by the speed limit---it won't happen so I figured why tempt fate. I
am planning on modify the firewall forward as well I'll be opening up the
tail again to do the re-enforcement's. I'll post the stats as I get more
specifics, as I'm expecting the manual within the next week.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous
others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What
I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the
cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this
engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the
M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including
tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore
will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built
M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree
in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or
if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available
as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises
is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial
engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the
SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This
engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X.
If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch
with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs.
the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low
as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr.
Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he
prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy
had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such
a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with
Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

for
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*

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-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

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--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

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http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
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Rob Helt

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Rob Helt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Brian;
From what I've gathered to date the M-462 is essentially a geared down
version of the M-14. It is a 9 cylinder supercharged radial like the M-14
with a dry weight of 218kg. and a displacement of 620cu. in. In talking
with a number of people there are a number of kits available to prevent one
of the most annoying problems and that is the lower cylinders from filling
with oil. Essentially one needs an intake drain kit that drains the lower 3
cylinders as well as a sump scavenge pump system. The combination of these
two add in will keep the cylinders free of oil and stop oil leaking from
the exhaust.
Information regarding overhauls seems to be different depending on who
you talk to. I've heard that the Russians do not overhaul the engine (M-14)
until they reached 2400hrs and they do a top ?overhaul?inspection every 600
hrs. This is why you have to be careful where you get your engine. Again
Murphy will be getting factory new engines so you won't have any question's
about the history of the engine. The M-462 is a Czechoslovakian engine
that fly's in a Zlin ag.aircraft. As mentioned these engines are overhauled
every 800hrs and have a max of 5 overhauls. This engine uses a different
prop than the M-14P. Both engines use a constant speed however the M-14
uses a wooden prop with re-enforced metal edges and the M-462 uses an all
metal Avia prop. Hope this helps
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Hi There

What is the M-462? Is this a derated M-14P or something completely
different?

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:14 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14



Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous
others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What
I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the
cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this
engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the
M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including
tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore
will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built
M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree
in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or
if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available
as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises
is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial
engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the
SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This
engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X.
If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch
with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs.
the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low
as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr.
Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he
prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy
had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such
a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with
Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

for
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
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Wayne G. O'Shea

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 177 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 20:24:10 on 24 Dec 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mike, got it working okay to access the ftp site. We run a LAN Network in
the house, so all 5 of us can be on the net at the same time (with only one
access account). My computer just needed some settings changed to get me
through our own server!

Thanks,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

What browser are you using? I've tested it with both Internet Explorer &
Netscape... you might have a problem with your installation. I can send
them to you directly if you'd like. Also, I will eventually get them
posted
on the web site!

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Mike, Is that the correct site address?? As I have said before I can
never
get into this ftp site you and others keep talking about. If I click on,
or
type in, this address all it does is freeze my computer.

Thanks, Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he
prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy
had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such
a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with
Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes
off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those
settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

engine
for
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
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rebelair

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by rebelair » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Rob

Thanks very much for detailed explanation. Sounds like a very interesting
engine for this application.

It would be great to hear a flying report of the SR with this or the M-14
engine installed.

Thanks again

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Helt [mailto:rhelt@csolve.net]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 6:54 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14


Hi Brian;
From what I've gathered to date the M-462 is essentially a geared down
version of the M-14. It is a 9 cylinder supercharged radial like the M-14
with a dry weight of 218kg. and a displacement of 620cu. in. In talking
with a number of people there are a number of kits available to prevent one
of the most annoying problems and that is the lower cylinders from filling
with oil. Essentially one needs an intake drain kit that drains the lower 3
cylinders as well as a sump scavenge pump system. The combination of these
two add in will keep the cylinders free of oil and stop oil leaking from
the exhaust.
Information regarding overhauls seems to be different depending on who
you talk to. I've heard that the Russians do not overhaul the engine (M-14)
until they reached 2400hrs and they do a top ?overhaul?inspection every 600
hrs. This is why you have to be careful where you get your engine. Again
Murphy will be getting factory new engines so you won't have any question's
about the history of the engine. The M-462 is a Czechoslovakian engine
that fly's in a Zlin ag.aircraft. As mentioned these engines are overhauled
every 800hrs and have a max of 5 overhauls. This engine uses a different
prop than the M-14P. Both engines use a constant speed however the M-14
uses a wooden prop with re-enforced metal edges and the M-462 uses an all
metal Avia prop. Hope this helps
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "rebelair" <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Hi There

What is the M-462? Is this a derated M-14P or something completely
different?

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:14 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14



Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous
others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What
I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the
cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this
engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the
M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including
tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore
will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built
M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree
in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or
if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available
as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises
is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial
engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the
SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This
engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X.
If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch
with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs.
the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low
as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr.
Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he
prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy
had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such
a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with
Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

for
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
Contributors' page at:
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Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Contributors' page at:
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Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
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David M Parrish

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by David M Parrish » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

On 20 Dec 2000, at 21:22, Bob Patterson wrote:
That's a very good question !! Several people claim it can be
as low as 18 gallons/hour - others say it could be as high as 54
gallons/hour !!! I suspect that the real average consumption is
From the maintenance manual:
calculated values:

Takeoff power: 360HP 41.6 GPH
"Cruise I": 180HP 13.9-15.2 GPH
"Cruise II": 144HP 11.4-12.4 GPH

raw values:

"Nonimal I": 290HP 280-310 grams/HP hr
"Nonimal II": 240HP 265-300 grams/HP hr

---
David Parrish

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Rob Helt

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Rob Helt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi All;
For those interested price of the M-462 with 0 time since factory
overhaul, including Avia constant speed prop with 0 time since factory
overhaul Plus new exhaust is around 10,500 US. I figure with all needed
accessories plus mount and cowling should be between 4000-6000US. Can
probably use the firewall fwd package that Murphy will eventually be
offering but those prices have yet to be determined. For more info you can
reach me at rhelt@csolve.net
Rob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous
others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What
I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the
cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this
engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the
M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including
tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore
will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built
M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree
in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or
if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available
as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises
is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial
engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the
SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This
engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X.
If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch
with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs.
the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low
as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr.
Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

This is from a message I received from the guy who built the first
customer
completed SR... which has an M14-P and is on straight floats... he
prefers
his plane called a baby beaver. You may recall at some point Murphy
had
pictures of his plane on their web site... however, they gave him such
a
hard time over putting this engine on his plane that he asked them to
remove
the pictures, and now he doesn't like to associate his plane with
Murphy
much. I have several pictures of his plane... goto:
ftp://ftp.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/babybeaver/

--------------------------------------
The performance is great, its a true STOL aircraft on floats, takes off
short and lands short. So far I have mostly been running the engine
around
65% power and 25 inches. Cruse is 120 mph on floats at those settings.
Fuel consumption at these settings is around 12 gal/hr. Floats are
PK3500's.
--------------------------------------

Mike

PS He's never had this plane on wheels...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

for
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
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Bob Patterson

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Rob !

I applaud your wisdom and admire your restraint !! With your
attitude, you should enjoy many happy years flying your Super Rebel !!!

Hope the engine mounting mods for the M-14 will be of some use
to you for mounting the M-462.... (Is it coming from Moravia ?)

......bobp

---------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 06:31 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Hi Bob;
I agree that this is an option, using the M-14 without doing the mods to
increase the gross. Personally I think of this as having a Ferrari and
abiding by the speed limit---it won't happen so I figured why tempt fate. I
am planning on modify the firewall forward as well I'll be opening up the
tail again to do the re-enforcement's. I'll post the stats as I get more
specifics, as I'm expecting the manual within the next week.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous
others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What
I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the
cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this
engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the
M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including
tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore
will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built
M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree
in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or
if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available
as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises
is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial
engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the
SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This
engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X.
If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch
with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs.
the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low
as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr.
Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

customer
prefers
had
a
remove
Murphy
around for
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
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Bob Patterson

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Rob !

Forgot to ask - do you have any photos of the M-14P SR on
floats on the step or flying ?? Would really like to see a good
shot of it in profile, even anchored !!

If you do, could you please pass them on to Mike to put up for
the rest of us ?? THANKS !!!

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 06:31 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Hi Bob;
I agree that this is an option, using the M-14 without doing the mods to
increase the gross. Personally I think of this as having a Ferrari and
abiding by the speed limit---it won't happen so I figured why tempt fate. I
am planning on modify the firewall forward as well I'll be opening up the
tail again to do the re-enforcement's. I'll post the stats as I get more
specifics, as I'm expecting the manual within the next week.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous
others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What
I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the
cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this
engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the
M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including
tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore
will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built
M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree
in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or
if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available
as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises
is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial
engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the
SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This
engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X.
If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch
with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs.
the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low
as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr.
Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

customer
prefers
had
a
remove
Murphy
around for
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
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Bob Patterson

Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Rob !

Did I miss it somewhere ?? What is the Hp rating for the M-462 ??
This DOES sound like a very suitable choice for the SR, both on price
and weight. The Avia prop is a very nice addition - it has a very
simple mechanism, almost like automatic transmission !

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 11:19 AM 12/26/00 -0500, you wrote:
Hi All;
For those interested price of the M-462 with 0 time since factory
overhaul, including Avia constant speed prop with 0 time since factory
overhaul Plus new exhaust is around 10,500 US. I figure with all needed
accessories plus mount and cowling should be between 4000-6000US. Can
probably use the firewall fwd package that Murphy will eventually be
offering but those prices have yet to be determined. For more info you can
reach me at rhelt@csolve.net
Rob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

Thanks for the update, Rob !

I should just jump in here to clarify a possible misunderstanding
that SR builders might be getting ;

The factory mods to raise the gross weight to 3500 lb. on wheels
are completely separate from the mods to mount the M-14P. That is, you
can still have an M-14P, even if you do not raise the gross weight -
BUT - you'll have to be extra careful about not exceeding VNE, and you
will have less useful load !! OR - you could do the mods for 3,500 lb,
and use a Lycoming O-540 and have a LOT of extra load capacity and
safety margin on speed.

It might be worth looking into the mods & mount for the M-14P
that the factory will be supplying - to mount your M-462. Even if the
mounts don't fit, the reinforcing mods might help ! (Not nearly as
extensive as the gross weight upgrade mods ....)

Without getting into specific suppliers, I'm SURE that most
SR builders would REALLY like to know the approx. costs for the M-462 !!
Also weights, horsepower, and other stats.....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 02:40 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
Merry Christmas to all;
Hi. My name is Rob Helt. I have been following the builders list
since inception However I never felt that I could offer much useful
information when there are people like Wayne, Bob, Mike and numerous
others
that are flying and have a lot of practical experience. I am building a
Super Rebel which will hopefully be flying by the summer of 2002. What
I
have researched extensively are engine choices for the SR. As Wayne had
mentioned in his previous message the M-14P is probably one of the
cheapest
engines available to date. I remember talking to Darryl about this
engine
before the SR prototype was even flying. Until recently he has never
recommended this engine. As Mike mentions the only flying SR with the
M-14
is up around the Sudbury area here in Ontario. I have seen the plane and
the modifications that were done to it. Unfortunately the factory
re-enforcement's for this engine are going to be considerable and will
entail(as far as I know to date) the opening of the wings(including
tanks)
to re-enforce the spars(front and main). The amount of work therefore
will
be considerable for what I think will be a small gain (increase in useful
load of maybe 260lbs). If I were to buy a kit now I would definitely go
with
this combination as the work involved when building is not of any
significance. The engines that Murphy will be using are the NEW built
M-14
from Romania. They have a number of castings of Russian origin and are
using
these to produce new engines. Other sources for the M-14 are Shadetree
in
the US which have a number of new old stock engines. Be careful when or
if
you buy from an advertisement i.e.. Trade a Plane. There are a number of
engines out there that are actually runout with a new log. These engines
are used in a number of aerobatic planes so parts are readily available
as
well there are a number of good people who can help with this engine and
the
needed accessories. Besides the Yaks and Sukhoi's the modified Pitts 12
(the macho stinker EAA July 1999) and the Culp special all use the M-14.
The above article is very informative And Jim Kimball of J.K.Enterprises
is
very helpful.
Now for those people that are building a SR and want a radial
engine
but don't want to go to all the extra work of re-enforcing their present
kit there are still a number of options. There are a number of these
radial
engines around that are de-rated i.e.. range from 280-315 hp. Since the
SR
was initially rated for 300hp. I think that any of these option's is
feasible. I am going with the M-462 which I have purchased. This
engine
is used on the Zlin-37 which is an agricultural aircraft. Overhaul is
recommended at 800hrs. and the factory will overhaul these a max of 5X.
If
anybody is seriously interested in this engine I can put you in touch
with
my supplier.
Hopefully the information will be useful to someone. I have nothing
against the Lycoming or Continental engines out there except the price is
so
prohibitive as is maintenance.i.e..cylinder for a lyc.=1200-1600US. vs.
the
M-14 300-400US(as Wayne said you do the math)
Somebody previously asked about the fuel burn. Max. continuous
operation of the M-14 at take-off (360hp)=5min. and cruise can be as low
as
59%. The fuel burn can vary but averages out to 14-15 gallons/hr.
Nice
bonus is that the comp. ratio =6.2:1 so you can pump at your local Esso.
If anyone is interested in one of the alternative radials then
contact
me off the list as I really do not want to advertise for any one
individual
or company.
Have a Merry X-mas;
Rob Helt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Super (Beaver) Rebel MP-14

customer
prefers
had
a
remove
Murphy
around for
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