Elvevator deflection

[Legeorgen]

Thanks Ken, I'm headed out to check them now. Bruce G 357R
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Patterson]

Bruce,
30 degrees should be lots - I usually ask for AT LEAST 27 degrees
of up....

.....bobp

-----------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 12:04 PM 11/23/00 EST, you wrote:

Wayne,

I do have the pulleys I ordered from MAM. I spent 10 hours retro fitting them
and was sore all over after crawling down that tube 25 times, just to here
you say you prefer the guides. Ugh! but after reading your reply I believe
the problem must be the nylon washers in the elevator hinges I never used,
because I have none. The plan was to put it all together and check the
rigging. I figured I could add the washers later on final assemble.

30 degree up elevator is the maximum I can get mechanically. I will rig it
for that. Thanks.

Bruce G 357R
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Patterson]

Hi Bruce !

You might want to check with the factory. I seem to recall
that there are TWO kinds of stick - one has a bigger bend to the rear,
possibly meant for the Elite ?? You might be able to get the stick
you need "off the shelf"

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 01:02 AM 11/24/00 EST, you wrote:

Brian,

How do I know if I have an old horn or a new one? The hole in horizontal
fus-31 is cut back as far as possible without cutting into the "factory cut"
flanged hole behind it. I have a maximum 52 degree of deflection movement
possible now.

I would like to have more bend in the control stick as it is so far forward
now, I find it uncomfortable to handle it. I will have to put more of a bend
in it so it fits comfortable in my lap and still have room for full up
elevator. Cheers

Bruce G 357R
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[rebelair]

Hi Bruce

You will have to measure the distance from where the elevator horns connect
vs the pivot point and compare to the old one. The new horn if I recall
correctly has a '-1' extension on the part number. If you take the
measurements, I will try to find my old horn & measure it so we can compare.
Once you have changed these dimensions, then you can adjust the neutral
position of the stick back far enough that you are comfortable but still
leave adequate room for full flare.

The 52 degrees you have is good but making the stick more sensitive allows
you to have the stick where you want it without hitting your stomach or the
panel. I find the stick sensitivity & forces just fine as well.

Best Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Legeorgen@cs.com [mailto:Legeorgen@cs.com]
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 1:02 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elvevator deflection


Brian,

How do I know if I have an old horn or a new one? The hole in horizontal
fus-31 is cut back as far as possible without cutting into the "factory cut"
flanged hole behind it. I have a maximum 52 degree of deflection movement
possible now.

I would like to have more bend in the control stick as it is so far forward
now, I find it uncomfortable to handle it. I will have to put more of a bend
in it so it fits comfortable in my lap and still have room for full up
elevator. Cheers

Bruce G 357R
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[A G Yeoman]

Hi All,
I have been reading with interest this thread on elevator
deflection, I have an 0-320 Rebel with the firewall back with standard
deflection on the elevator and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Having just said that, the Rebel seems to have a few characteristics of its
own, it can get a high rate of sink on approach if the speed is back a bit
and you carry no power, no amount of elevator is going to arrest this
Pitts Specials can do the same thing). Once the sink rate starts I am sure
the relative airflow over the elevator changes and it becomes less
effective. Applying power places airflow over the elevator and you get any
amount of elevator authority.( also gives the wings more lift)

On any sort of short field work it is important to get the speed back far
enough to get behind the drag curve so that you can carry power and still
keep the airspeed under control, I dont feel I have JHY under control until
I am under about 40-45KTs.

Just my 2c worth on the subject.

Cheers

Alister




----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: Elvevator deflection

Brian,

Was 32 degree the maximum deflection of up elevator you could get before

the

horn on the gizmo (the thing that changes cable to push pull tubes) hits

the

limit of the hole cut in your horizontal bulkhead? My limit is 32 degrees

so

I figured 30 for a stop would allow clearance.

I like to have lots of flare on slow, steep and short landings. I recall
once, in learning to fly my Kitfox, I was in a slip coming into a short
field. Like the Rebel and being solo and light, I found on flare at about

30

feet I ran out of elevator. The ground just kept coming and it got my
attention real quick! the result was a 4G plus landing and to the credit

of

Skystar, no damage to may spring gear Kitfox or fuselage. My lesson was to
have lots if authority back at the tail, and know your airplane. It's not

an

Aeronca or Supper Cub (the Kitfox that is).

Bruce G 357R

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Legeorgen]

Thanks Bob,

I'll check with MAM on the stick. I have a neighbor with a pipe bender that
might be the ticket.

Does the 0 320 install use a fuel pump? John from ATC says he found a run out
core, 0 320 E3D, but the crank still had some pitting after servicing. It is
OK for a 150 but not 160 HP. I wish I knew more about the engine mechanics. I
would have greater piece of mind with a new crank but I think they are a few
more G's, US. any thoughts on Bendix mags as oppose to Slick? Wayne, feel
free to pipe in. I know enough not to use cylinder heads on a third
remanufacture, but what about the other equipment like new cams and lifter
bodies. I'm not sure what inter cylinder baffles and a ring gear are.

What is the favored ignition? Replace both mags or one? I'm ready for an
education here, so any one wants to put in there two cents it would be
appreciated.

Bruce G 357R
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Legeorgen]

Brian,

Thanks for all the help. I have the old one cc-68. I was able to rig the
elevator with 35 deg up and 25 deg down. The stick clears the panel and seat
but still stands up straight in neutral, i.e., to far forward to be really
comfortable for me. I still have room to bend it back some and clear the
seat, or just get a new one from MAM. Maybe I'll get used to it after a few
hours. I have to much left to do right now so I'll concern myself with other
priorities right now.

Did you route you're fuel lines under the floor?

Bruce G 357R
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[rebelair]

Hi Bruce

I did not rerout the fuel lines under the floor. I picked the same general
path as per MAM but did not use hose per MAM. I used only 3/8" tube under
the floor. I did not take the fuel line aft of the side windows but forward
of it down the vertical door sill, (aft of the door frame).

I then sloped the fuel line down following the FUS-28 material until it
disappears behind the rolled corners on the inside. Now with the aircraft
in the 3 point position, I am able to drain the lines thru taps in the lower
floor. Made a special fitting to anchor the fuel lines at this point to
the outer floor. This will prevent any flexing or vibration of the fuel
lines & give a firm anchor for the quick drain etc.

The fuel line is then brought through the unused holes in the main cross
members of the aircraft (forgot the part numbers), i.e. the 2" square tube.
Then follow the corner wraps to the firewall per MAM plans.

I do not think it is wise to put the rubber lines under the floor per MAM
drawings. Tearing the floor out to fix or tighten a hose clamp does not
sound too smart for me.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Legeorgen@cs.com [mailto:Legeorgen@cs.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 11:29 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elvevator deflection


Brian,

Thanks for all the help. I have the old one cc-68. I was able to rig the
elevator with 35 deg up and 25 deg down. The stick clears the panel and seat
but still stands up straight in neutral, i.e., to far forward to be really
comfortable for me. I still have room to bend it back some and clear the
seat, or just get a new one from MAM. Maybe I'll get used to it after a few
hours. I have to much left to do right now so I'll concern myself with other
priorities right now.

Did you route you're fuel lines under the floor?

Bruce G 357R
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Patterson]

Bruce,

FWIW, it seems you are better off with a 150 hp Lycoming
anyway - the 160 hp. versions are virtually guaranteed to crack the
Warp drive props !!

If John's happy with a reground crank, I wouldn't worry too
much about it - he doesn't want to get a bad rep, any more than you
want a bad engine !!

I think the mechanics all preferred the Bendix mags - sturdy,
easy to repair, and reliable. The first (early years) Slicks were
cheap and disposable - they were sealed and could NOT be repaired -
just toss 'em !! Now they ARE repairable, and pretty well dominate
the market because of lower price ....

As far as cams, lifters, etc. - we would just rely on the
judgement of the engine shop. Most of them know it would be worth
their business to sell something with a short life span intentionally !

Inter cylinder baffles are the bent pieces of metal that
direct the airflow down through the cylinders - don't look like
much, but a bit of a job to fit properly, and very important.
The ring gear is the very large diameter gear that surrounds the
flywheel, and is engaged by the starter motor gear. You would
definitely want one in good shape, as a worn one could chew up your
starter gear, or jam it in engagement, and changing the ring gear
is a fairly big, messy job (I think they are heated & shrink fitted
to the flywheel ...). In any case, it means removing a lot of the
front end of the Rebel !

The consensus seems to be that the electronic ignition allows
a wider range of ignition timing - hence smoother, slower idle
(nice for floats) AND more advance, giving more power at higher RPM.
All around, "A GOOD THING"(tm) :-) :-)

The disadvantage is - no battery, no spark ! Also, the early
ones needed timing magnets positioned on the flywheel. I understand
that some new ones have a complete unit that bolts in to replace
the mag, with nothing extra needed.

Several builders have replaced the right mag with a Lazer,
or similar, leaving the left mag, with impulse, for easy starting
and backup. I suspect that it will not be long before folks will
just go all electronic....

For now, though, I would just go with the mags & get flying !! :-)
Every "fiddle" adds months !!!

Just my two cents (CDN = .0000002 USD :-( )

....bobp

------------------------------orig.------------------------------------
At 11:09 AM 11/25/00 EST, you wrote:

Thanks Bob,

I'll check with MAM on the stick. I have a neighbor with a pipe bender that
might be the ticket.

Does the 0 320 install use a fuel pump? John from ATC says he found a run out
core, 0 320 E3D, but the crank still had some pitting after servicing. It is
OK for a 150 but not 160 HP. I wish I knew more about the engine mechanics. I
would have greater piece of mind with a new crank but I think they are a few
more G's, US. any thoughts on Bendix mags as oppose to Slick? Wayne, feel
free to pipe in. I know enough not to use cylinder heads on a third
remanufacture, but what about the other equipment like new cams and lifter
bodies. I'm not sure what inter cylinder baffles and a ring gear are.

What is the favored ignition? Replace both mags or one? I'm ready for an
education here, so any one wants to put in there two cents it would be
appreciated.

Bruce G 357R
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Rebflyer]

Hi Bruce,
You"ve asked for the most dangerous thing you can from this bunch! YOu can probably move the decimal point three places to the left when were done. Well here's my .02. I used 1 slick mag (left) with an impulse coupling. I used Lightspeed CDI for the right.
The reasoning? Well I thought if I was someplace with a dead battery, Like on a remote lake, with the one Mag with the impulse coupling I could still get started. Still, others have put both mags in a box and gone to 2 electronic systems but they keep a small battery dedicated to those, so in case of a failure the battery is there for just the ignition. The lit. on that setup says a small motorcycle type battery will fire the CDI for 10 hrs.
Well good luck in your choice. Curt N97MR
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Legeorgen]

Thanks Curt,

There is a lot to know and learn about the different combinations of Lycoming
engines and all the choices that come with them. I have not decided on the
mag issue yet, but I appreciate your input.

I think two electronic ignitions are better than one, but I don't like
carrying the extra weight of another battery. Does the engine run differently
with one mag and one electronic ignition?

Bruce G 357R
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Rebflyer]

Hi Bruce,
I guess All I can say to the question of does it run differently, to do a mag check I have to put the cdi in the "no advance mode". In other words it's like having two mags again. Otherwise I can hardly tell. I mean that the drop in rpm with the mag off is less than I can really put a number to. Maybe the witdth of the needle. Now I can only imagine the efficency would be even better with two of them. Curt N97MR
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------