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Rotax 912 oil cooler

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Ian Donaldson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Ian Donaldson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

G'day

My Rebel is fitted with the Rotax 912s 100hp engine, and I have a problem with high oil temperatures.
On a warmish day, (perhaps 25oC), when climbing hard the temperature climbs to 130oC and would go much higher if I continued.
I fear that I will cook the engine on a hot day!

The cooler that I am using is the standard one supplied by MAM, but I suspect that it is designed for the
80 hp engine.

I guess my question are;
Is if there is anyone out there using a 100hp engine?
If so what temps are you getting?
What size oil cooler are you using?
I would appreciate some dimensions on the size of the oil cooler to see if there is a difference.\


Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

(flying and loving it!)

Aurele Lavigne

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Aurele Lavigne » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

Ian, I was running high temps for the longest time and while I have the 80 H.P., I have added the extra compression pistons. My temps were high before and after. Rotech advises that there are actually three different oil coolers, the 82mm for the 912, the 95mm for the 912S and 131mm for the 912S or the 914 turbo. Never did check which one I'm using.

In any event, wayne O'Shea suggested I open up the cowling at the bottom rear, which has helped considerably. I noticed a significant drop in oil temps, water temps and cylinder head temps, although the latter wasn't really a problem.

You may want to check the size of your oil cooler and contact Rotech directly if you're undersized. If you want to see what I did with the cowling I can always send you a feww pics directly.

Aurele
063R
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Donaldson (allsure@iprimus.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:55 AM
Subject: Rotax 912 oil cooler


G'day

My Rebel is fitted with the Rotax 912s 100hp engine, and I have a problem with high oil temperatures.
On a warmish day, (perhaps 25oC), when climbing hard the temperature climbs to 130oC and would go much higher if I continued.
I fear that I will cook the engine on a hot day!

The cooler that I am using is the standard one supplied by MAM, but I suspect that it is designed for the
80 hp engine.

I guess my question are;
Is if there is anyone out there using a 100hp engine?
If so what temps are you getting?
What size oil cooler are you using?
I would appreciate some dimensions on the size of the oil cooler to see if there is a difference.\


Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

(flying and loving it!)

Wayne G. O'Shea

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

Ian, there are 3 coolers available from Rotax. The standard 912 ones has 6 cores and the last two digits of the part number are 27, the next size is the 28 and it has 7 cores, and then the one you probably should have in your hot climite is the 29 which is 10 cores. We had to put the large "29" one on the Pegastol and it is okay on normal days but is still really pushing high temps on hot muggy days (although part of that is it's location and air flow from original cowl construction.

I suspect your only hope in getting the temps down is to get the large cooler on there, or more airflow throw the existing one which if it's on the nose would be pretty hard to do. They even run hot using the small cooler on the 701's with a belly slung oil cooler so I think the only real option is to put as big a cooler you can find on there and then make a sliding cover to adjust for outside temps. You may even be able to find a local source for a cooler that is even bigger than Rotax's and like I say make an adjustable cover for it.

When I was up in Hearst this summer and Aurele did his Provincial Park landing sighting high engine temps as his need for an emergency landing area I suggested to him to slit his cowl up each side and drop the exit area lip down somewhat. He says it has made a huge difference in all his temps.

Regards,
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Donaldson (allsure@iprimus.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:55 AM
Subject: Rotax 912 oil cooler


G'day

My Rebel is fitted with the Rotax 912s 100hp engine, and I have a problem with high oil temperatures.
On a warmish day, (perhaps 25oC), when climbing hard the temperature climbs to 130oC and would go much higher if I continued.
I fear that I will cook the engine on a hot day!

The cooler that I am using is the standard one supplied by MAM, but I suspect that it is designed for the
80 hp engine.

I guess my question are;
Is if there is anyone out there using a 100hp engine?
If so what temps are you getting?
What size oil cooler are you using?
I would appreciate some dimensions on the size of the oil cooler to see if there is a difference.\


Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

(flying and loving it!)

Bill Delcambre

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Bill Delcambre » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

Hi, Ian!

My $.02;

I'm building a Super Rebel now, but flew a Kitfox IV for several years, with an 80 horse 912. My cooler was about 3" x 10", as I recall. I had the same problems at first. You didn't mention head temps, but I'm gonna assume they're a bit high, too. I'm gonna assume that airflow through the cooler is not the issue. Seems that everyone that I ever spoke with, who was flying a 912 (any version) had comments about temps. Some never warmed up enough and some, like you and I, were too hot. The first thing is to be absolutely sure that you've got no restrictions in your lines to and from the cooler. At first, I believed the owners manual about putting PURE antifreeze in the cooling system. I suspect that the European specs are different from our American ones. With Pure antifreeze, the thing would run about as you're describing. Water temps were around 250 F and the oil would darned near peg the gauge! Switching to 50% water, balance antifreeze brought water down to about 200 F. I had a temp sender in the head and one in the radiator. Radiator was always about 20 F cooler than the head temp. Whenever I felt that the head temps were running too high, I'd just start looking at the other gauge. (humor...) Oil was still a bit high until I switched to Mobil 1 synthetic oil. I seem to recall using 20w50 Mobil 1. My oil temps would run about 240 F, after that. This seems to be an ideal temperature for moisture boil off, and the engine was happy. I understand that the synthetics are good beyond 300 F, although I would fear for the engine at those temps. When I sold the Kitfox, it had about 430 hours and ran like an electric motor. Smooth and strong.
The Rotax is a fabulous engine, in my book. You'll get it sorted out, and enjoy flying behind it for years!

Bill Delcambre
SR172FB
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Donaldson (allsure@iprimus.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: Rotax 912 oil cooler


G'day

My Rebel is fitted with the Rotax 912s 100hp engine, and I have a problem with high oil temperatures.
On a warmish day, (perhaps 25oC), when climbing hard the temperature climbs to 130oC and would go much higher if I continued.
I fear that I will cook the engine on a hot day!

The cooler that I am using is the standard one supplied by MAM, but I suspect that it is designed for the
80 hp engine.

I guess my question are;
Is if there is anyone out there using a 100hp engine?
If so what temps are you getting?
What size oil cooler are you using?
I would appreciate some dimensions on the size of the oil cooler to see if there is a difference.\


Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

(flying and loving it!)

Brian Lawson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Brian Lawson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

Hey Aurele,

Don't hide the photos of what you did. Post them to this list so we
can all have a look!

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Windsor, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:40:47 -0700, you wrote:
Ian, I was running high temps for the longest time and while I have the 80 H.P., I have added the extra compression pistons. My temps were high before and after. Rotech advises that there are actually three different oil coolers, the 82mm for the 912, the 95mm for the 912S and 131mm for the 912S or the 914 turbo. Never did check which one I'm using.

In any event, wayne O'Shea suggested I open up the cowling at the bottom rear, which has helped considerably. I noticed a significant drop in oil temps, water temps and cylinder head temps, although the latter wasn't really a problem.

You may want to check the size of your oil cooler and contact Rotech directly if you're undersized. If you want to see what I did with the cowling I can always send you a feww pics directly.

Aurele
063R
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Donaldson
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:55 AM
Subject: Rotax 912 oil cooler


G'day

My Rebel is fitted with the Rotax 912s 100hp engine, and I have a problem with high oil temperatures.
On a warmish day, (perhaps 25oC), when climbing hard the temperature climbs to 130oC and would go much higher if I continued.
I fear that I will cook the engine on a hot day!

The cooler that I am using is the standard one supplied by MAM, but I suspect that it is designed for the
80 hp engine.

I guess my question are;
Is if there is anyone out there using a 100hp engine?
If so what temps are you getting?
What size oil cooler are you using?
I would appreciate some dimensions on the size of the oil cooler to see if there is a difference.\


Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

(flying and loving it!)


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Legeorgen

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

Ian,

My 912S on a 100F summer day in climb out may hit oil temps 220F. Normally I can't get it hot enough to burn off the condensation. I left it 1/3 taped off all summer. The cooler came stock with Skystar fire wall forward package. It's an Earl cooler with dimensions about 3" high and 9" long. It sets right up front in the inlet so it gets lots of cooling air. I would examine the amount of air getting to your cooler. Good luck.

Wayne,

I'm real sorry to hear about your friend. We all take the chance, and I'm sure he died doing what he loved to do, ...Flying. My heart goes out to you and his family.

The 0320 Rebel has started to grow on me as I become more familiar and comfortable with it. Like landing short, slow flight and just getting intimate with her. It's a real stable machine. I am completely satisfied with this plane. Keep at it everyone!!!

Bruce G 357R

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Legeorgen

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

Ian and Bill,

Rotax no longer recommends the use of Mobil 1 with the 912 because of gear wear. They recommend motor cycle oils with gear additives like Honda Gold or Castrol GTX. The Max oil temps recommended by Rotax, I believe, are 260 F. Rotax issued a service bulletin about two years ago. Check out their web sight outlining the oil type and recommendations.

Bruce G 357R

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Ian Donaldson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Ian Donaldson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

G'day Wayne


Thanks for your response.

I have found out from a Rotax dealer that there are a two sizes that they stock.The cooler for the 100hp is about 60%larger in area than the one for the 80 hp engine. So that's an option that I will explore.

I guess that to fit a larger cooler I will have to do some work on the cowl!


I was not aware that Aurele had made some changes to the cowl but I will contact him and discuss same.

Regards

Ian Donaldson

Ian Donaldson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Ian Donaldson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

G'day Bruce

Thanks for your response.


I am using Castrol GPS which is a semi synthetic oil which has the necessary additives and is approved by the factory.

Seems to do a good job, and can take a fair amount of heat before breaking down.


Regards

Ian Donaldson
Rotax no longer recommends the use of Mobil 1 with the 912 because of gear wear. They recommend motor cycle oils with gear additives like Honda Gold or Castrol GTX. The Max oil temps recommended by Rotax, I believe, are 260 F. Rotax issued a service bulletin about two years ago. Check out their web sight outlining the oil type and recommendations.

Bruce G 357R

Ian Donaldson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Ian Donaldson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:25 pm

G'day again Bruce

I have learned that there is a larger size cooler available and I will investigate that.

Unfortunately here in Australia we are thoroughly metricated and I have forgotten how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius and I don't know just how hot 220F is !
: Re: Rotax 912 oil cooler


Ian,

My 912S on a 100F summer day in climb out may hit oil temps 220F. Normally I can't get it hot enough to burn off the condensation. I left it 1/3 taped off all summer. The cooler came stock with Skystar fire wall forward package. It's an Earl cooler with dimensions about 3" high and 9" long. It sets right up front in the inlet so it gets lots of cooling air. I would examine the amount of air getting to your cooler. Good luck.

Ian Donaldson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Ian Donaldson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:25 pm

G'day Bill

Thanks for your interest.

I have checked the cooler for restrictions, and that is not a problem.

What is becoming apparent to me is that there is a larger oil cooler that is available from the factory.
I will investigate fitting one of those.

I am using 50% de-mineralised water and 50% coolant. Seems to do the job. Others owners here who used 100% coolant have had heating problems. A change to 50/50 solved their problem.

I can't recall the water & head temps, but they are low enough for me not too worry. It is just the oil temp that skyrockets.

Also I'm using Castrol GPS that is factory recommended and the oil will take quite some heat without problems.


I will have to learn how to convert F to C so that I can appreciate your readings!


Regards


Ian Donaldson

Ian!

My $.02;

I'm building a Super Rebel now, but flew a Kitfox IV for several years, with an 80 horse 912. My cooler was about 3" x 10", as I recall. I had the same problems at first. You didn't mention head temps, but I'm gonna assume they're a bit high, too. I'm gonna assume that airflow through the cooler is not the issue. Seems that everyone that I ever spoke with, who was flying a 912 (any version) had comments about temps. Some never warmed up enough and some, like you and I, were too hot. The first thing is to be absolutely sure that you've got no restrictions in your lines to and from the cooler. At first, I believed the owners manual about putting PURE antifreeze in the cooling system. I suspect that the European specs are different from our American ones. With Pure antifreeze, the thing would run about as you're describing. Water temps were around 250 F and the oil would darned near peg the gauge! Switching to 50% water, balance antifreeze brought water down to about 200 F. I had a temp sender in the head and one in the radiator. Radiator was always about 20 F cooler than the head temp. Whenever I felt that the head temps were running too high, I'd just start looking at the other gauge. (humor...) Oil was still a bit high until I switched to Mobil 1 synthetic oil. I seem to recall using 20w50 Mobil 1. My oil temps would run about 240 F, after that. This seems to be an ideal temperature for moisture boil off, and the engine was happy. I understand that the synthetics are good beyond 300 F, although I would fear for the engine at those temps. When I sold the Kitfox, it had about 430 hours and ran like an electric motor. Smooth and strong.
The Rotax is a fabulous engine, in my book. You'll get it sorted out, and enjoy flying behind it for years!

Bill Delcambre
SR172FB
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Donaldson (allsure@iprimus.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: Rotax 912 oil cooler


G'day

My Rebel is fitted with the Rotax 912s 100hp engine, and I have a problem with high oil temperatures.
On a warmish day, (perhaps 25oC), when climbing hard the temperature climbs to 130oC and would go much higher if I continued.
I fear that I will cook the engine on a hot day!

The cooler that I am using is the standard one supplied by MAM, but I suspect that it is designed for the
80 hp engine.

I guess my question are;
Is if there is anyone out there using a 100hp engine?
If so what temps are you getting?
What size oil cooler are you using?
I would appreciate some dimensions on the size of the oil cooler to see if there is a difference.\


Thanks and regards

Ian Donaldson

(flying and loving it!)

Ian Donaldson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Ian Donaldson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:25 pm

G'day Aurele

One of my friends here has also changed the pistons in his 80hp and it has made a great difference to his performance. It seems like a good conversion and an easy way to get some more hp.


I have found that the cooler I have is not the one recommended for the 100hp engine. I guess that I will change over to a larger size. That may well fix the problem.

The other temps do not seem to be a problem, but as I am going to alter the cowl to take a larger cooler, I would like to see just what modifications that you have made to your cowl. Wayne said that you cut away some of the lip and added some slits to the cowl. I would like to see what you have done.

I would appreciate it if you would email me the pictures to allsure@iprimus.com.au (allsure@iprimus.com.au) as I would like to get at it this weekend.


Thanks

Ian Donaldson







----- Original Message -----
From: Aurele Lavigne (alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 oil cooler


Ian, I was running high temps for the longest time and while I have the 80 H.P., I have added the extra compression pistons. My temps were high before and after. Rotech advises that there are actually three different oil coolers, the 82mm for the 912, the 95mm for the 912S and 131mm for the 912S or the 914 turbo. Never did check which one I'm using.

In any event, wayne O'Shea suggested I open up the cowling at the bottom rear, which has helped considerably. I noticed a significant drop in oil temps, water temps and cylinder head temps, although the latter wasn't really a problem.

You may want to check the size of your oil cooler and contact Rotech directly if you're undersized. If you want to see what I did with the cowling I can always send you a feww pics directly.

Aurele
063R

Charles Bailey

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Charles Bailey » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:25 pm

Lan,
I use a program called Convert that will convert almost everthing I need. Freeware from:
http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/



Chuck Bailey

Rebel 176
N225PC


From: "Ian Donaldson"
Reply-To:
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 oil cooler
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:56:39 +1000

G'day again Bruce

I have learned that there is a larger size cooler available and I will investigate that.

Unfortunately here in Australia we are thoroughly metricated and I have forgotten how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius and I don't know just how hot 220F is !
: Re: Rotax 912 oil cooler


Ian,

My 912S on a 100F summer day in climb out may hit oil temps 220F. Normally I can't get it hot enough to burn off the condensation. I left it 1/3 taped off all summer. The cooler came stock with Skystar fire wall forward package. It's an Earl cooler with dimensions about 3" high and 9" long. It sets right up front in the inlet so it gets lots of cooling air. I would examine the amount of air getting to your cooler. Good luck.

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Ian Donaldson

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Ian Donaldson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:25 pm

G'day Chuck

Now that's a really nice program.

I have found that 240F = 115C!

Just when are the Americas going to change to metrics?


Regards


Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Bailey (baileyca2@hotmail.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 oil cooler



Lan,
I use a program called Convert that will convert almost everthing I need. Freeware from:
http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/



Chuck Bailey

Rebel 176
N225PC


From: "Ian Donaldson"
Reply-To:
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Subject: Re: Rotax 912 oil cooler
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:56:39 +1000

G'day again Bruce

I have learned that there is a larger size cooler available and I will investigate that.

Unfortunately here in Australia we are thoroughly metricated and I have forgotten how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius and I don't know just how hot 220F is !
: Re: Rotax 912 oil cooler


Ian,

My 912S on a 100F summer day in climb out may hit oil temps 220F. Normally I can't get it hot enough to burn off the condensation. I left it 1/3 taped off all summer. The cooler came stock with Skystar fire wall forward package. It's an Earl cooler with dimensions about 3" high and 9" long. It sets right up front in the inlet so it gets lots of cooling air. I would examine the amount of air getting to your cooler. Good luck.

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Dale Kilbey

Rotax 912 oil cooler

Post by Dale Kilbey » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:25 pm

Ian
FYI , Canada has been metric for more than a generation
Dale ____________________________________________________
http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309&lang=9 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here


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