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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:23:21 +0000
Subject: cleco wear?
From: "Dan Morehouse" <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: "murphy-rebel @dcsol.com" <murphy-rebel @dcsol.com>
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Hello!
About the spring gear and float fix upgrades: I'm right in that spot where
I'm just replacing the rolled and tapered corners and the side panels to
..032. Now I see there may be some more replacements concerning the spring
gear, my next section of construction.
During the construction I try to wait until I'm sure I'm finished with a
section before I prime and rivet. That saves some redrilling but also I'm
concerned about the wear the holes get when they are left with not so strong
or tight fitting clecos. Especially if the holes are #30. I end up kicking
or otherwise disturbing the clecos and wonder if I'm actually doing more
harm than good by postponing riveting. There is also the question of proper
orientation using the clecos. I can imagine the plane not fitting together
as well with 20,000 clecos before the first rivet is pulled compared to a
plane riveted promptly every step of the way.
So what I've done to avoid the cleco wear and also minimize redrilling out
the rivets is to rivet every fourth or fifth rivet to be drilled out later.
I'm doing this in the cabin side panels and bottom corner areas close to the
carrythroughs, since the spring gear fix will probably have me dismantle
some of these pieces anyway.
What are your thoughts about this? Also Bijan formerly of MAM said that 1/8"
rivets being drilled out technically should be replaced with 5/32" rivets.
Wouldn't the little extra large hole caused by the drilling out be filled
nicely with the expanded rivet of the same size?
Take it easy,
Dan
R280
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cleco wear?
-
Mike Davis
cleco wear?
Received: from tim-toshiba - 206.40.8.15 by email.msn.com with Microsoft
SMTPSVC;
Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:40:39 -0800
Reply-To: <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: cleco wear?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:30:52 -0800
Message-ID: <000401be48bc$5f905aa0$14640a0a@tim-toshiba>
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Dan:
I have drilled out MANY rivets, and I can give you this hint:
1) If you are in an area of good thickness (not wing skins), use a small pin
punch that will fit down in the mandrel hole, and knock out the mandrel,
Otherwise, tap it down carefully to where the mandrel is beneath the surface
of the material.
2) Using the mandrel hole as a guide, drill off the head of the rivet with a
#30 bit in a good variable speed drill (like a Makita) at the lowest
possible speed. Don't let the bit contact the steel mandrel if it is still
in the rivet (because that is a guaranteed mess-up of the hole). If you are
careful the head will spin off the rivet body just before you actually get
to the material.
3) Use a larger size pin punch and tap out the rivet body, or grab it from
the backside with some good needle-nosed vice grips, and pull it out of the
hole with a little bit if twisting motion.
If you do it correctly, you will not oversize the hole.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Morehouse [mailto:dan.morehouse@netos.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 2:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel @dcsol.com <murphy-rebel @dcsol.com>
Subject: cleco wear?
Hello!
About the spring gear and float fix upgrades: I'm right in that spot where
I'm just replacing the rolled and tapered corners and the side panels to
..032. Now I see there may be some more replacements concerning the spring
gear, my next section of construction.
During the construction I try to wait until I'm sure I'm finished with a
section before I prime and rivet. That saves some redrilling but also I'm
concerned about the wear the holes get when they are left with not so strong
or tight fitting clecos. Especially if the holes are #30. I end up kicking
or otherwise disturbing the clecos and wonder if I'm actually doing more
harm than good by postponing riveting. There is also the question of proper
orientation using the clecos. I can imagine the plane not fitting together
as well with 20,000 clecos before the first rivet is pulled compared to a
plane riveted promptly every step of the way.
So what I've done to avoid the cleco wear and also minimize redrilling out
the rivets is to rivet every fourth or fifth rivet to be drilled out later.
I'm doing this in the cabin side panels and bottom corner areas close to the
carrythroughs, since the spring gear fix will probably have me dismantle
some of these pieces anyway.
What are your thoughts about this? Also Bijan formerly of MAM said that 1/8"
rivets being drilled out technically should be replaced with 5/32" rivets.
Wouldn't the little extra large hole caused by the drilling out be filled
nicely with the expanded rivet of the same size?
Take it easy,
Dan
R280
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SMTPSVC;
Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:40:39 -0800
Reply-To: <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: cleco wear?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:30:52 -0800
Message-ID: <000401be48bc$5f905aa0$14640a0a@tim-toshiba>
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In-Reply-To: <19990125182307216.AAA81@[206.40.137.201]>
Return-Path: tlcarter@email.msn.com
Dan:
I have drilled out MANY rivets, and I can give you this hint:
1) If you are in an area of good thickness (not wing skins), use a small pin
punch that will fit down in the mandrel hole, and knock out the mandrel,
Otherwise, tap it down carefully to where the mandrel is beneath the surface
of the material.
2) Using the mandrel hole as a guide, drill off the head of the rivet with a
#30 bit in a good variable speed drill (like a Makita) at the lowest
possible speed. Don't let the bit contact the steel mandrel if it is still
in the rivet (because that is a guaranteed mess-up of the hole). If you are
careful the head will spin off the rivet body just before you actually get
to the material.
3) Use a larger size pin punch and tap out the rivet body, or grab it from
the backside with some good needle-nosed vice grips, and pull it out of the
hole with a little bit if twisting motion.
If you do it correctly, you will not oversize the hole.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Morehouse [mailto:dan.morehouse@netos.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 2:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel @dcsol.com <murphy-rebel @dcsol.com>
Subject: cleco wear?
Hello!
About the spring gear and float fix upgrades: I'm right in that spot where
I'm just replacing the rolled and tapered corners and the side panels to
..032. Now I see there may be some more replacements concerning the spring
gear, my next section of construction.
During the construction I try to wait until I'm sure I'm finished with a
section before I prime and rivet. That saves some redrilling but also I'm
concerned about the wear the holes get when they are left with not so strong
or tight fitting clecos. Especially if the holes are #30. I end up kicking
or otherwise disturbing the clecos and wonder if I'm actually doing more
harm than good by postponing riveting. There is also the question of proper
orientation using the clecos. I can imagine the plane not fitting together
as well with 20,000 clecos before the first rivet is pulled compared to a
plane riveted promptly every step of the way.
So what I've done to avoid the cleco wear and also minimize redrilling out
the rivets is to rivet every fourth or fifth rivet to be drilled out later.
I'm doing this in the cabin side panels and bottom corner areas close to the
carrythroughs, since the spring gear fix will probably have me dismantle
some of these pieces anyway.
What are your thoughts about this? Also Bijan formerly of MAM said that 1/8"
rivets being drilled out technically should be replaced with 5/32" rivets.
Wouldn't the little extra large hole caused by the drilling out be filled
nicely with the expanded rivet of the same size?
Take it easy,
Dan
R280
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Mike Davis
cleco wear?
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:51:13 +0000
Subject: Re: cleco wear?
From: "Dan Morehouse" <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: "(Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
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Yeah, I've seen these also. Ever heard how they work? I'm sure they'd give a
tighter fit than the spring loaded ones.
Cheers,
Dan
----------
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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:51:13 +0000
Subject: Re: cleco wear?
From: "Dan Morehouse" <dan.morehouse@netos.com>
To: "(Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
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Yeah, I've seen these also. Ever heard how they work? I'm sure they'd give a
tighter fit than the spring loaded ones.
Cheers,
Dan
----------
From: mickey chadwell <flyboy47@gte.net>
To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: cleco wear?
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999, 7:09 PM
.Dan
I have seen in various trade pubs. a cleco with a wing nut on the top
that when tightened makes for a very solid fit. Perhaps the use of a few
of these would save you from redrilling.
Mickey
#R534
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Mike Davis
cleco wear?
Received: from sunshine (1Cust15.tnt7.hou3.da.uu.net [153.36.229.15])
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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:02:25 -0600
From: mickey chadwell <flyboy47@gte.net>
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Dan Morehouse wrote:
As for as I can tell, they work the same way as the spring loaded,
only the threaded portion allows for a much tighter fit.
Mickey
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From: mickey chadwell <flyboy47@gte.net>
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To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: cleco wear?
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Dan Morehouse wrote:
aYeah, I've seen these also. Ever heard how they work? I'm sure they'd give
Dantighter fit than the spring loaded ones.
Cheers,
Dan
----------From: mickey chadwell <flyboy47@gte.net>
To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: cleco wear?
Date: Mon, Jan 25, 1999, 7:09 PM
Dan
I have seen in various trade pubs. a cleco with a wing nut on the top
that when tightened makes for a very solid fit. Perhaps the use of a few
of these would save you from redrilling.
Mickey
#R534
As for as I can tell, they work the same way as the spring loaded,
only the threaded portion allows for a much tighter fit.
Mickey
-
Mike Davis
cleco wear?
Received: from albedo.net (ppp138.albedo.net [206.51.22.157])
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for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:52:40 -0500
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:43:32 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
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To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: cleco wear?
References: <19990125182307216.AAA81@[206.40.137.201]>
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Hi Dan
I have tried some clecos with the threaded nuts. All they really do is clamp
the
metal together with more force but I do find them helpful in the 3/16" size
for
drilling engine mounts and wing fittings. Some #10 bolts would do the same
function though.
I may be even more paranoid than others here but I usually remove rivets
with
two 7/64" drill bits. (one size smaller than 1/8) I drill the hole just deep
enough to insert the shank of the second drill bit and snap off the rivet
head.
I never even touch the sheet metal although some rivets do need to have the
mandrel tapped out of the way with a center punch. Not as fast as other
methods
but no damage either.
Nothing to do with rivet removal, but I do use 5/32 avex rivets in the odd
place
that I end up with an oval hole too big for a 1/8 rivet, as long as I have
sufficient edge distance. Again being somewhat paranoid, I usually file
these
holes out since I already failed to drill it round one time already.
Ken
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by juliet.albedo.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA32111
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:43:32 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
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To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: cleco wear?
References: <19990125182307216.AAA81@[206.40.137.201]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi Dan
I have tried some clecos with the threaded nuts. All they really do is clamp
the
metal together with more force but I do find them helpful in the 3/16" size
for
drilling engine mounts and wing fittings. Some #10 bolts would do the same
function though.
I may be even more paranoid than others here but I usually remove rivets
with
two 7/64" drill bits. (one size smaller than 1/8) I drill the hole just deep
enough to insert the shank of the second drill bit and snap off the rivet
head.
I never even touch the sheet metal although some rivets do need to have the
mandrel tapped out of the way with a center punch. Not as fast as other
methods
but no damage either.
Nothing to do with rivet removal, but I do use 5/32 avex rivets in the odd
place
that I end up with an oval hole too big for a 1/8 rivet, as long as I have
sufficient edge distance. Again being somewhat paranoid, I usually file
these
holes out since I already failed to drill it round one time already.
Ken
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